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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Any news from the beta test group?

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Hodgey
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Posted: 12th May 2011 09:53 Edited at: 12th May 2011 14:20
Reading the TGC's 100th issue I learnt that the good folk at the TGC HQ are continuing to develop the revolutionary product known as the App Game Kit and Lee was able to demonstrate its power at MoMoLo. The newsletter also mentioned that the beta test group now have their hands on AppGameKit!!! These are good signs as it sounds like AppGameKit is near completion. What I'd like to see (and I'm sure many other users would like to see) now are some screenshots, demos running on some of the handheld platforms, more news and info on AGK. My apologies if this is too early to ask for any news from the beta test group.

Before anyone posts anything, please read
Don't make any value judgements on why the members of the beta test group were picked. Remember TGC hand picked them.
Don't ask for a copy of the AppGameKit beta, TGC might/will release a public beta when they are ready.

Anyone who wishes to share information but wants to stay anonymous feel free to email me and I will post what you wish to share.

Here is a video of AppGameKit in action


A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 12th May 2011 16:04 Edited at: 12th May 2011 16:04
Not much chance of that, since they'll most likely be under none disclosure.

Hodgey
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Posted: 13th May 2011 09:39
You are right, they could be under a non-disclosure agreement but the 99th newsletter did say this:
Quote: "Finally, you will be pleased to learn that we have selected a cross section of the community to act as an internal beta test group for AGK. Right now they have not got their hands on an actual binary, but they have been receiving blow by blow emails on the progress of AppGameKit and are no doubt itching to test the IDE, compiler and interpreter on real devices and scenarios. As soon as they get their hands on the software, I am sure you will be hearing from them too on the AppGameKit community forum."


So I was hoping that they would be allowed to share some information on AppGameKit but I do realize it could be limited.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
IanM
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Posted: 13th May 2011 15:37
I'll see if I can post something this weekend - I'll check that it's OK first.

Hodgey
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Posted: 14th May 2011 01:39
Thanks IamM, any contributions/efforts are greatly appreciated.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
IanM
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Posted: 17th May 2011 00:50
I got the OK from Lee to give out a little info, so here follows a wall of text...

First the disclaimers:
1. Whatever I tell you is currently in the product, may not end up in the final product - lots of things are still subject to change, so I'm deliberately going to keep this light on details.
2. There's lots of bits of it I haven't used yet, so I reserve the right to misunderstand any part of the commandset, and to pass this misunderstanding straight on to you
3. I also reserve the right to ignore any questions that a) I've already given details of, b) can't answer, or c) don't want to answer.


The software we've been given to test so far comes without an installer. This was a major problem with the first beta, and quite a few of the testers (including me) never actually got to the point where we could compile anything
The second beta (the current one) however, I managed to get working straight away, and I know that at least one other person has too through email discussions.


The IDE/editor.
The original intention was to use the Eclipse environment as the front-end – Lee was already having doubts about that choice, and has since switched to using Code::Blocks instead. It looks good and works well, but there is still some work needed for usability and integration, for instance:
* error messages still appear as error message windows instead of using the IDE,
* it's not easy to create a new workspace or project (I haven't successfully managed it yet),
* predictive text needs a very small tweak, for example, typing 'endwhile' leaves the editor in predictive mode, so that you have to hit the enter key twice to move onto the next line.
* symbols aren't detected by the IDE (variables, function names, labels etc). I guess that this is because the IDE doesn't yet 'know' about the AppGameKit language.

A nice bonus to the IDE is the ability to create your own templates, so I have set it up so that I can type 'while', hit CTRL-J and it fills in a complete template for a while loop. Hopefully the finished article will include many standard templates, but even if it doesn't, the template editor is dead easy to use.

Basically, I like the IDE, but there's a way to go yet.


The compiler: (Excluding the language!)
Most of the time it plays nicely, but on occasions it has failed to compile without showing error messages, or has compiled but runs with a white display. I don't know if it's me, my system, or the compiler, so we'll have to see how that turns out
I'm only running small programs right now, so I can't give an indication of speed – you'll have to wait until I've typed that much code


The base language:
* The square brackets for array subscripts seem very natural to me. Maybe it's my C and C++ background Multidimensional arrays of integral types & UDT's are in place, but without bounds checking so far. Apart from that, they appear to work without any problems. There's no sign yet of arrays in UDT's, but we're informed that they will come along eventually.
* The brackets required for every command... not quite so natural. The only place I have problems is with the Print() command – everywhere else, no problem. I'll get over it eventually, and I still believe it's a good direction to move in.


Command set:
It's very light on the simple stuff right now – no sin/cos/tan, no val, no array manipulation functions – so it's a little difficult to do get a real handle on the core of the language.
That said, the commands within other command groups are beginning to give a real nice feel to the language.
* Sync() is available, or you can call other commands instead to give the same functionality but under your control. The refresh rate is fixed at this point - I've no idea if that will or can change (platform requirements).
* The basic Sound and Music commands are provided ... I've not used them yet, and there's not really much more to say about them.
* Sprites & physics are fully integrated. There's no pixel-perfect collision, but there is box, circle and polygon with up to 12 points (alas you have to set the points yourself). They also have all of the functionality of DBPro sprites, such as depth, animation, rotation etc (although maybe in a slightly different form in some cases).
* Networking – I can't really give much detail here, as I haven't yet spent any time looking into those commands, but just the fact that they are present makes me look forward to multi-person combat via a phone in the office I did notice however that there are some HTTP commands in there, so integrating your app with a web site should be quite simple.
* Last but definitely not least... Input. Mice and touch devices are supported, allowing touch/click, hold, swipe etc. It's not clear to me yet whether multi-touch is supported. Accelerometers are supported, or emulated with direction keys on those devices without one.


Help / Documentation:
It's early days in the documentation – each command available is included, but a lot of them need a little more detail. There are currently no code examples, except for those left in the beta by Lee, so the unfamiliar stuff is also difficult stuff (networking, extended input commands).
It seems that the help files we were provided with are a little ahead of the compiler though, as there are a whole commandset around text – from what I can see from the docs, text will be treated in the same way as sprites, and although they will use their own id system, they will be drawn in depth-order alongside sprites, and each 'text' will exist until you delete it.


Anyhow, that's all I have to say for now, at least until the next beta comes along. It should be enough to whet your appetites for a while

Ched80
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Posted: 17th May 2011 10:07
Thanks IanM that was really interesting! Good to hear of the progress being made. thanks again,

[url="http://raptr.com/No_Turn_Right?src=em_forum"][/url]
Hodgey
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Posted: 17th May 2011 11:14 Edited at: 17th May 2011 14:15
Wow, thanks for all of the info IanM, sounds like progress is going really well and indeed you have whet my appetite

Edit: Just thought of a few questions
Have you tried running a program, even a simple "Hello world" on one of the supported OSs?

When testing an application is an emulator provided or do you need to have a device to test it on? e.g if developing for ipad, do you need an ipad to commence testing?

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
DrT
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Posted: 17th May 2011 14:19
Thanks for the update IanM.
IanM
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Posted: 17th May 2011 16:05
Quote: "Have you tried running a program, even a simple "Hello world" on one of the supported OSs?
When testing an application is an emulator provided or do you need to have a device to test it on? e.g if developing for ipad, do you need an ipad to commence testing?"

No, we only have access to the Windows runtime environment ATM.

You need to remember that although the runtime will be different for each device, the same compiled code will run on each platform - technically, there will be no difference in the final code. The only differences will be any bugs that surface between runtimes.

Right now, we've all seen the same amount of stuff regarding other OS's.

Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 18th May 2011 00:29
Sounds like its a long time until release ?
Or wath do you think ian?
Hodgey
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Posted: 18th May 2011 09:48
@ IanM Thanks for the reply and sounds like you will get to test the cross-platform aspect of AppGameKit soon.

Quote: "You need to remember that although the runtime will be different for each device, the same compiled code will run on each platform - technically, there will be no difference in the final code. The only differences will be any bugs that surface between runtimes."

Ha, I completely forgot about the different runtimes and that is an excellent point.

I'm not too familiar with code::blocks so I just downloaded it and in the few minuntes I have used it, it seems like a fine IDE to me. The intellisense works well and for me, that's basically all I need in an IDE as well as syntax highlighting. Just for fun I had a look at the eclipse IDE and I think TGC made a smart move by moving to code::blocks.

@ Cliff M
In the 100th newsletter (yes I scrutinize them) TGC is aiming to release AppGameKit in July 2011 which isn't too far off so get your wallet ready

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th May 2011 03:40 Edited at: 30th May 2011 03:42
Quote: "2. There's lots of bits of it I haven't used yet, so I reserve the right to misunderstand any part of the commandset, and to pass this misunderstanding straight on to you "

lol
If only I had that list to get dazed & confused.

Quote: "TGC is aiming to release AppGameKit in July 2011 which isn't too far off so get your wallet ready"

My processor burned out this morning, so my wallet just got emptied(+) on a new laptop.

Quote: "Help / Documentation:
It's early days in the documentation – each command available is included, but a lot of them need a little more detail."

Anything is better than nothing.
I sure would like to get my hands on those documents.

The documentation would make a nice teaser that would come in handy to prepare for the release.

Thanks for the news IanM!

Hodgey
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Posted: 30th May 2011 13:50
Quote: "My processor burned out this morning, so my wallet just got emptied(+) on a new laptop."

That's a bit of bad luck right there but you still have 1-2 months to save up.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 1st Jun 2011 22:53 Edited at: 1st Jun 2011 22:56
Quote: "That's a bit of bad luck right there"

Yes, but that's the way my luck tends to run...bad.
On the bright side though; I get to start out fresh on my files, which is nice for improving my organization.
I will not be installing any FPS's on this computer either, at least, not until my current projects are finished.
That way, I can turn all of those hours playing FPS's into more productive time spent.
I vow to finish my movie by the end of JULY, come that mythical place of punishing us for being human or high water!!!
Seriously though, I was wasting alot of time playing games that could be spent building games & developing other media.
So, even though losing my processor was costly and an unwanted expense, this transition should be a positive one after all.

EDIT
On a side note: I thought that I should mention that I am NOT a beta tester for TGC's AGK.
So, don't worry, it was NOT any of TGC's products that burnt out my processor!

Hodgey
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 14:18
It's been about a month since I have posted here and I've heard that AppGameKit may be released late July or early August. And since it has been about a month I was wondering if the beta test group got their hands on cross platform development. If you have I'd like to resurrect an old question:
Quote: "Have you tried running a program, even a simple "Hello world" on one of the supported OSs?"


Thanks guys

DMXtra
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 05:49
Hi Hodgey,

Most of the activity has been on facebook and thus through E-mail.
You can join the facebook group by going here:

http://www.appgamekit.com/

There are some video demos as well as some source code. Enjoy

App Game Kit (A.G.K.) - Want to be creative on many platforms at once? This is the tool you need.
Hodgey
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 13:56
Thanks for the link DMXtra, I have checked the facebook page now and then and have seen some of the videos which look amazing but don't answer all of my questions. Also, in asking the beta group...well IanM, I learn other bits of information such as using code::blocks instead of eclipse. I remember IanM revealing that the ide is now code::blocks and then checking the facebook page a couple of weeks later and seeing someone dislike the idea of using eclipse as the ide.

So in some respects the answers and info produced in this thread can be ahead of what is on the facebook page but that also applies vice versa.

Thank you for your efforts though DMXtra, greatly appreciated

BatVink
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 01:01
Quote: "I remember IanM revealing that the ide is now code::blocks and then checking the facebook page a couple of weeks later and seeing someone dislike the idea of using eclipse as the ide."


I don't know what your conclusion was there, but it uses Code::blocks.
One more snippet...the help files looks gorgeous, almost sexy

Hodgey
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 11:59 Edited at: 1st Jul 2011 12:21
Quote: "I don't know what your conclusion was there, but it uses Code::blocks."

I could have worded my sentence a lot better. What I was trying to say was that I learnt that AppGameKit uses code::blocks for an ide. Then, a few weeks later someone posts on the facebook page complaining that eclipse is not a good ide and questions why AppGameKit would be using it. The conclusion is that this thread can be more up to date than the facebook page.

Quote: "One more snippet...the help files looks gorgeous, almost sexy "

You don't know how much that makes me want a copy of AGK. As soon as a release date is announced, I'll be crossing off the days of the calendar. I might even write a small program to calculate how long until release, you know the ones like 12 days : 16 hours : 43 mins : 22 secs.

Edit - Just saw the help file format in the newsletter (brilliant edition btw) and the new help files look out of this world. I can just see myself spending hours clicking BASIC, C++, BASIC, C++

RickV
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Posted: 9th Jul 2011 00:45
Sorry for the lack of updates, we're just busy with all the last minute changes, polishing etc.

The help section is very detailed and we will continue to add to it and make videos post launch. Mike has done an amazing job with it.

I think we have 1-2 weeks of more fine tuning and checking...

Rick

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Hodgey
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Posted: 9th Jul 2011 01:53
Quote: "Sorry for the lack of updates, we're just busy with all the last minute changes, polishing etc.
"

Don't worry about it Rick, the way I see it is that if there are less and less updates it means that you are closer and closer to finishing the first release of AGK.

Quote: "The help section is very detailed and we will continue to add to it and make videos post launch. Mike has done an amazing job with it."

That's good to hear as I practically learnt DBPro off the help files and the video tutorials is an excellent addition.

Quote: "I think we have 1-2 weeks of more fine tuning and checking..."

So it's getting really close then, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I have one question though, will AppGameKit, the actual development tool itself, run on Mac OS X or will it only run on Windows?

RickV
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Posted: 9th Jul 2011 18:31
@ Hodgey - if you are using Tier1 then you have to develop on Windows. Tier2 can be used on a Mac with XCode.

Rick

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Hodgey
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Posted: 10th Jul 2011 02:09
Quote: " if you are using Tier1 then you have to develop on Windows. Tier2 can be used on a Mac with XCode.
"

Ah I see, thanks Rick.

I'd like to place an order for AppGameKit tier 2 with a medium fries and a large coke, thanks

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