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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Altering Program

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stuted
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 23:55
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Hello,

I am a bit like a newcomer to dark basic pro, i ve decided to put my question in this forum, because maybe, here you can help me better.
So what i would like to ask, is it possible to alter a programs behaviour in dark basic pro. So take the minesweeper game for instance, can i make it to freeze the timer, or to auto-matically complete the field?
So can this be done? And if it can please tell me in a nutshell how?
I have had some lessons with c++ and with visual basic.net, but they were much more complicated than dark basic pro, and i was able to develope some skills in this language.
I happily take any responds!
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Phaelax
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 01:43
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DBP can't access the behavior in other programs like that. What you can do is write your minesweeper game by using my minesweeper tutorial.

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stuted
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 01:58
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Thank you for the quick answer. That's too bad, and there is no plugin for it to do things like that? Or can it be done in dark gdk.net?
Thanks for the site link by the way, i ve found some useful codes.
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BatVink
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 09:25
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The things you want to do can be done far easier in c++ and VB.net. It's much harder in DBP because you would have to know the DLL details for the functions to achieve this. In the other languages, the intellisense would help you out.

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stuted
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 20:08
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Can you tell me some specific commands to call the functions of the dll?
And is it impossible with DarkData or with some plugins?
Last question, what about kernel32.dll type altering? Can it be done?
Thank you in advance
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TheComet
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 09:16
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What you're asking for is this thing called "hacking a program". If you want to alter a program's behavoir, you will have to hack it with some kind of memory editing software. DBP is designed for "programming your own programs", not "hacking an existing program".

So if you want to hack, start with Tsearch.

You can't just open an existing program with a programming language like DBP, C++, VB.net etc. because it's already compiled. Compiled programs can't be decompiled to higher languages. It's impossible, so don't ask.

Tsearch does have the ability to decompile it to assembler (a low language) if that helps.

TheComet

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stuted
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 12:50
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I see. But after i have the memory adresses i can change the values with dark basic pro?
Thanks for the program. Assembly is very complicated thouh, i will try to figure out some important parts!
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 13:57
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Quote: "DBP can't access the behavior in other programs like that."

Actually it can... sort of at least.
I wrote a memory scanner in DBP a few weeks ago just for fun, but agreed all the "real" work was done by calling the winapi dll's.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
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stuted
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 15:20
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Quote: "I wrote a memory scanner in DBP a few weeks ago just for fun, but agreed all the "real" work was done by calling the winapi dll's."


Can you tell me the basic concept of that?
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GregA
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 15:38
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Ok, what you want to do is write an artifical player. You will get way more props from me than actually hacking the program if you do it this way rather than hacking the internal data structure of minesweeper.

First write a screen scraper, like fraps. Then write and train a couple of perceptrons (neuralnets) to first find the game fo mine sweeper in the screen data, then to find the individal bombs and clear zones.

Using those two tools it should then be simple to write a solver. and feed back mouse clicks to the screen for where to click, and how to click to solve the game.

As a super double bonus, if you could take such a game solver, and show it to a couple of game studios (or medical research software companies for that matter, much better pay) you are certain to get the job.

On the other hand, you could go the route of hacking the game to get at the internal data structure to see the answer, and you have started down the road towards being a hacker, and will eventuall find yourself wanted by the FBI.

Looks like a red pill or blue pill moment to me.

I am fairly certain that if I even started talking about the tools that you would use to hack the game, I would get moderated because merely mentioning their names is against the law in various countries around the world. I will say that you need an irc client rather than a web browser to get started. This forum is for legit Dark Basic discussions.
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stuted
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 16:31
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Quote: "I would get moderated because merely mentioning their names is against the law in various countries around the world"


Actually i have an IRC client, it doesn't seem to that, i can email you or talk to you private, in any way, but it would be nice to do so. Can you give me and email adress? If you don't want to reveal yours, but still take the fatigue to help me, can you email me at [email protected].
Thanks
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 16:55
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It seems like lately there's always a newbie that wants to program via scripts in a .txt file or make Darkbasic Pro control programs that they themselves didn't make.

Whatever happened to just normal programming?

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stuted
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 17:20
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Quote: "It seems like lately..."


This may be because, there are already a large number of programs for all proposes, for what i can not mean a real competition just on my own. But altering programs, creating something that mods the current program may be a good way to show your skills, and create something useful.
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TheComet
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 17:30
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Quote: "Whatever happened to just normal programming?"


It's most likely today's dumbed down kids... Nothing but FPS games with blood, the idea that programming is easy, etc.

@ stuted

Don't you think it would be more fun to just program a space invaders game? You can even add blood to it if you want

TheComet

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cheese pwner
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 17:36
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Or it is wayyyyy more fun to play or make an rpg game. Games that take some amount of thinking, more so then just "MOVEMENT, KILL".
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GregA
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 20:05
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stuted,

Once I get up to speed with DB I will post code for neural net solvers. I have been using Darkbasic for a couple of days at this point. Someone around here besides me would be better at helping you write the screen scraping bits in dark basic.

Having said that I am definitely white hat, and have no interest in helping someone who is potentially black hat, even if it is just how to cheat at a simple game.

Having said that, I doubt you yet have the education to understand how to use a @#$^%%^ or the steps that you would go through to fuzz the app, so that you could get the @#$^%^^ of the %$^#$! and learn how to decode it from machine code into something human readable so you could build your answer key.

Knowing how to program is a pre-req. I don't think you yet know how to program. I think a first step would be to get the free version of DBPro and write a mine sweeper clone so that you would know what to look for.
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 21:51 Edited at: 30th Jun 2011 21:53
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@ Stuted:

So your reason you want to control another program via Darkbasic Pro is because your skills at programming aren't up to par with the program you want to control?

Just forget what you want to do for now and focus on learning to program normally in Darkbasic Pro. When you get good enough you won't want to control anybody elses program because you'll be able to do whatever you want yourself. If you have a problem or question about how to code something we're here to help you but none of us (like GregA said) are going to help you hack another program. It's far easier to make your own program and "hack" that with any cheats you want. And the best way to show your skills is to make something yourself not tap into somebody elses work.

Check out TDKs tutorials to learn the basics of Darkbasic:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=99497&b=10


@ TheComet:

Yeah probably. I can't stand it when I'm in a store and I see a kid buy a game and the walkthrough at the same time. I feel like grabbing the kid, shaking them, and yelling "Play it yourself WITHOUT the walkthrough!"... but I'd probably get arrested.

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stuted
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 22:01
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Quote: "It's most likely today's dumbed down kids... Nothing but FPS games with blood, the idea that programming is easy, etc."


Actually I'm a well educated student, and just because, i asked a question that displease you I guess you shouldn't say that.
I admit, yes, i lack the ability of programing, but you seem a bit harsh.
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TheComet
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 09:11
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I was talking about today's kids in general, I wasn't trying to offend you Sorry.

TheComet

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 15:37
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Quote: "Can you tell me the basic concept of that?"

Well... A process' working memory is spread out among several modules. Since you likely don't know in which such module the data you are looking for is stored, you have to scan through them all.
The data of other processes is usually not available for you to access, however there are some functions in kernel32.dll (or psapi.dll, depending on your Windows version) that will return a copy of that memory to you to look at.
To find values in the mass of data you can attain in this way, you generally carry out a base search, then use the program looked upon in such a way that the data you are looking for has changed and carry out another search that looks after changed values since the last search. Rinse and repeat and in the end you should have narrowed it down enough to find what you were looking for, such as the point value in Minesweeper or whatever.
Since people seem to be making a big deal out of this, I won't tell you how to change the memory of the target process, but you can probably figure that out anyway.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
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stuted
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 17:17
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Thank you all for your help. My last question is a bit personal? How did you begin with programing? I actually started it by reading TDK's tutorials, but i may be missing something?
How long it can take to be a decent Dark Basic Programer? By decent i mean i can understand the most of the programs, and i may be able to program a simple 3d game engine.
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stuted
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 19:01
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Sorry for posting it here, it may be not the apporpriate thread, but i don't want to create new threads just for every single problem so, can you help me why i got the error "Could not close nest at line 106."



I already had this problem for once, when i tried to quit the game through a SUB called ExitGame that had the end command in it. I fixed it with leaving it out. But than came this problem. I actually took TheComet's advice to make an rpg game, it is fairly simple, and i know that at this moment the attack variable just does almost nothing but it raises, i will give to it a use later on.
I'm hoping for some help, thanks.
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 23:22 Edited at: 1st Jul 2011 23:25
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Multi line IF and IF/ELSE statements need a closing EndIF







Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
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stuted
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 01:23
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Thank you. I just got it work... It wasn't an easy thing, but yeah
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WLGfx
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 17:15
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I've been looking into this thread over the last few days seeing what's been going on. If altering another program is what you're after, then nowadays with that much freeware out there you can pick software up that does.

They run a little like the task manager, you select the program which is running and it will attach itself to it. You can enter a number, ie for changing your health, and it will scan all values. When the value changes it will compare the results and then you can change the value and voila your health increases. A little bit like the cartridges for the ZX Spectrum to cheat in games.

The only code you can rip from games is all in assembly code and it's ny impossible to understand if you're just starting out with Basic...

Warning! May contain Nuts!
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