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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBpro server

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basjak
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 03:17
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if am about to rent a server to put DBpro (or windows) games in it to run as a host. what kind of server I should rent and what operating system should be running on it?.
do you have any advice the best web to rent a server from.

regards
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Mac
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 05:42
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Do you mean a server to run game server applications developed in DBP on?

Be careful here, as DBP requires DirectX to function and windows remote access does not allow DirectX applications to be run remotely.

/\/\@<
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basjak
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 05:47
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so how can I put DBpro app into a server and let it run as a host.
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Mac
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 05:57
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I think UltraVNC might work, not 100% sure. Tell you what, I'm only sitting here drinking my breakfast coffee and smoking my breakfast cigarettes, I'll try it for you. Give me 30 minutes and I'll post the results.

/\/\@<
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Mac
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 06:15
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Sorry, doesn't work.

The DBP application calls for the DX9 DLL, and even though the remote machine has DX9 installed, the remote access server cannot hook it up as it does not have access to a real graphics adapter to bind it too (just the virtual one).

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Mac
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 06:50
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One thing I should probably add is that DX9 is only called when you execute a command which requires it. So if you stick to a completely text based server, and do not call any commands which requite DX9, then you can run the application remotely.

/\/\@<
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Greenster
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 12:53
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this is simple..look at the import section of the pe/exe..


the smart way to do this is sniff packets and implement a server that doesn't use timed sessions, that eliminates cgi and http..
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 14:40
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Sorry, what does CGI or HTTP have to do with this? the original poster is talking about a server to run game server applications, nothing at all to do with a web server.

/\/\@<
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Greenster
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:08
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About as much as hosting questions do with DBP/DirectX 9..

What does it have to do with the question? It's the key to finding hosting..2008 dedicated with DX runtime, or reverse directplay protocol and do a multi-threaded python implementation.

I've seen people trying it over http before too..



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basjak
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:42
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thanks guys. I left the board and went to sleep to wake on these answers.
so, do you mean if I got a normal web HTTP server, I will be able to leave DBpro game in this server and run DX9 app on it.
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Greenster
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 16:26
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No, http protocol, and servers that use it have too many timeouts and overhead. DBP also uses directplay protocol, you need a dedicated server with DX runtime installed, which means NT based. An implementation of directplay or a library is also an option.

I'm sure there is some kewler way of saying this though..
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basjak
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 16:27
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aright guys, I will give you a hint:
the following code is a simple chat room I made yesterday night before I enter the board.
1-take the code and compile it on two computers.
2-connect both computers together.
3- run the compiled software on one of the computers first, so the first computer takes the host.
4-run the compiled software on the second computer to take the client base.
5-start exchanging message between both computers.

now, let's try to put a better version of the software on a server!. what specifications should this server has.

[/disable escapekey
id=default net game("passing messages","small",5,1)

repeat
cls
center text screen width()/2,screen height()/2,"please wait"
center text screen width()/2,15+screen height()/2,str$(net game exists())
until net game exists()

cls
set cursor 0,300
s$="enter: "
print s$

do
get net message
if net message exists()
cls
get$=net message string$()
print get$
set cursor 0,300
print s$
endif
if inkey$()<>""
s$=s$+inkey$()
set cursor 0,300
print s$
repeat until inkey$()=""
endif
if returnkey()
send net message string 0,s$
cls
print get$
set cursor 0,300
s$="enter: "
print s$
repeat until not returnkey()
endif
if escapekey() then free net game
LOOP

end]
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basjak
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 16:37
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thanks greenster, I'll have a look at it but have you tried it before
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Greenster
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 17:19 Edited at: 11th Jul 2011 17:24
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yes, you need a server that allows a persistent process listening on a port. That means dedicated server in hosting talk.

it's not really that complex. Typical web hosts are http only and time-out through the server and cgi-config. You need to execute a process on a server that is persistent or at least doesn't have the http-overhead.

there are game-networking libs or you can make your own directplay lib for some language.
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Mac
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 19:14 Edited at: 11th Jul 2011 19:21
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basjak please do yourself a favour and take my advice/information and stop there, nobody else so far in this thread even understands what you are trying to do.

In an attempt to explain things more simply, here:

You want to rent a dedicated server to act as a host for specific DBP applications (be they game severs or whatever).

The problems is you will not be able to log on to that machine remotely, access the server desktop and run a DBP application as DX9 is not available to the remote access client even if it is installed on the server. There is NO way around this if you intend to do anything that requires DX9, such as drawing any type of graphics, using Direct Play or anything which needs to call the Dx9 DLL.

Greenstar the original poster is not talking about web hosting, or any derivative, he is talking about renting a dedicated server to run applications on (DBP server applications specifically), nothing to do with web hosting in any way shape or form, stop confusing him.

/\/\@<
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basjak
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 19:59
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I think, it would be good idea if someone from the TGC advice me and everybody.
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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 20:58 Edited at: 11th Jul 2011 21:01
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Ok, here is an answer from someone who runs a DBPro server on a dedicated machine. I run my own hosting, so I know what I'm doing.

Forget about the built in networking commands. They are based on DirectPlay and unless you are only supporting a few players, they stink.

Multisync is a great free alternative, and if you require encryption and (when he adds it) compression, DarkNet is my favorite choice.

- Windows 2003 Server will NOT work. Even if it supports DX9. The DBPro app either freezes or gives an error about finding the video card. It's just something about the way they did the graphics on the server that doesn't work.
- Windows 2008 Server MIGHT work, but I wouldn't count on it.
- You will need a desktop OS installed. (XP or Win7)
- RealVNC will work for remote control if you don't use any graphics on the server app. Make your server screen text only and it will work. I do it all the time.

Finding someone that will host a desktop OS might be difficult if not impossible. If I can set up one of my new servers with VMWare and run a few copies of XP on it, I might consider hosting some game servers. I've got the right facilities and a 25/25mbit fiber connection.

Let me know the best quotes you've gotten for hosting and I'll see if I can match or beat that price. Email me if you like.

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Mac
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 04:45
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KISTech, have you ever tried running a DBP application using Windows 2003 server and installing the DBP executable as a service? OK you won't be able to view/control the application on the remote machine but you could always have a small admin app running locally to control it.

I guess that's my experiment for the day.

/\/\@<
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KISTech
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:25
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Never tried it like that, but I have tried just a simple "Hello World" DBP app and Windows 2003 Server couldn't even handle that.

Worlds Apart Online currently runs on an XP machine that is designated as my game server.

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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:54
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As soon as I have a couple of hours to spare I'll give it a try. I think firedaemon can get around the fact that DBP always wants to open a window upon execution. I've installed some pretty crazy things as windows services in the past but never thought to try a DBP app.

I'm also wondering if Windows Server 2008 can run DBP apps (text based ones only) remotely, as it has a lot in common with Windows 7, but I don't have a 2008 server to try, I might virtualize one over the weekend and give it a try.

/\/\@<
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JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 20:37
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Am I correct in assuming that really the only DLL that DBP uses is d3d9.dll or d3dx9.dll ?

If so, have you guys considered running it in Wine ( Under Linux ) since Win supports both of those files ? ( Yes people have successfully got them to work. Not sure how though. But some forums I have been on in the past have expressed success. )
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JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 20:41
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In case you think i'm nuts, I found proof of what i'm saying.. hahaha

http://howto.landure.fr/gnu-linux/install-directx-9-0c-on-linux-using-wine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 10:33
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KISTech have you tried a different 2003 server? A simple "hello world" app works perfectly fine remotely on mine.

Jack, I've been playing around with Wine, but have not had time to test DX9 with it.

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KISTech
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 18:30
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Hmm.. I'll have to check again. Maybe the latest updates they've made have fixed that particular issue. Wouldn't that be awesome!!

There are some DX9 apps that run in Wine, I have heard of many attempts to do it with a DBPro app, but haven't heard of any that succeeded.

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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 18:43
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I've only managed to get DBP apps working on Wine when they don't use any graphics. I've seen the core commands and the native network commands working but I've not tested multiplayer apps using Multisync or DarkNet. I also found text commands on Wine, particularly input, to be incredibly slow. That was all on an Ubuntu VM.

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JRNTexas
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Posted: 6th Nov 2011 21:42 Edited at: 6th Nov 2011 21:47
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@basjak

If I understand correctly, you would like to run DBPro apps on a server that is Internet facing?

If this is true, you need a VPS, (Virtual Private Server), running Windows. This should allow you to run an exe file.

You should also know that most of these services were actually meant to run a webserver. So chances are good that even though you run your .exe file on the server to listen and respond on specific ports, the server will also respond to http requests.

You will need to either disable IIS (Microsoft's Internet Information Server) or put a stunt webpage on it.

An open (unused) IIS server is a security risk. There are robots that troll the Internet looking for new IIS installations, new PHP installations, etc. Then then go in and take over management of the server and ruin your day, week or even worse.

Here is some information on VPS services:

VPS Services

Hope this helps.

<EDIT>Also, a VPS is better than running your own server. Simply keeping up with the patches and security upgrades can be a nightmare. They should do all of this for you, leaving you to work on your project</EDIT>
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Agent
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Posted: 6th Nov 2011 22:06
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I just want to add my vote of support for KISTech's advice. I've made use of his services in the past for my own hosting requirements and there seemed to be no problems with his implementation. I'm not familiar with his methods (never asked), but his servers run nicely so I'd be guided by his advice on the matter.

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JRNTexas
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Posted: 6th Nov 2011 22:19 Edited at: 6th Nov 2011 22:28
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I agree with everything posted by KISTech also.

And come to think of it, getting Win 7 on a VPS may be a problem. That may be where the "rub" is.

He may be the only provider that will load win7.
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JRNTexas
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Posted: 6th Nov 2011 22:27
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In fact, KisTech, I will be sending you an email about Win7 via VMWare.
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basjak
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Posted: 7th Nov 2011 06:08
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@JRNTexas and KisTech:

many thanks. I will get back to this thread as soon as I get my first game on intel. (very soon)
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