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3 Dimensional Chat / Some help understanding Next Gen Modeling

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Design Runner
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 07:16
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At this point in my modeling, I have decided to take a step back to improve my work flow. Mainly because I know I don't do it right. Right now I create my lowpoly mesh, then UV map it, then create the diffuse. I then heavily edit the diffuse to create a greyscale image I run through the normal map filter. I know this isn't the right way, but it has worked well enough. I also know I am supposed to create a high poly and low poly model, and bake the high poly model into the low poly's normal map.
Programs I have:
Sculptris (I know how to use this, and can create a high poly mesh with it)
Wings 3d (main modeling program. Create low poly meshes in this)
xNormal (just watched http://eat3d.com/free/xnormal_overview I understand it somewhat now)
Gimp for texturing.
What I don't understand is exactly how the process works. I create the two meshes, then what? Do I UV map them, or only one of them, or none of them? Do I create a normal map for the high poly, and that is what I am baking into the low poly? Any help in generally understanding how this works is greatly appreciated. I might even give away a model on the thread as a thanks. Thanks in advance for any help, Design Runner

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starmind 001
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 08:44
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That's exactly what I am doing! I don't know if this helps you, but what I do is create my low poly mesh I would use in-game, then I uv map that mesh for the best quality. Next I duplicate that mesh and that becomes my high poly sculpt for my normal map and ao. Then I paint the texture for the diffuse. Texture bake to the low poly mesh and you end up with a great model.

You can follow this guy through for an idea for creating next gen models.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFI6iTsMfac
He uses maya and zbrush, but you can port over to whatever software you choose. I prefer blender for all my work.

I hope this help some.

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lazerus
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 14:18
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If your a student you can get Any Autodesk product for free. Your required to provide your student email, IdEtcEtc@place.ac.uk

The .ac is the important part. When signed up you can access there entire stock for free. Though you cant sell the produced models ofc.

If you have spare money, then i suggest you look into Digital tutors

There are a good few substitutes but they provide a wealth of knowledge.

Polycount wiki is well everything youll ever need to know.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Design Runner
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 04:56
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Thanks for the link starmind, I am on 15 already. Great videos. And Lazerus: Thanks for the wiki link, good stuff on there.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 20th Jul 2011 05:53
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Well, for example, don't use default GIMP Media (your signature) But i use Blender, and i like to bake on the Ambient Occlusion Maps first then use that to save lighting performance with static objects, then use GIMP's Normal Mapping plugin to generate the normals, then use the Desaturate tool and the Brightness\Contrast tools to generate a Spec map(works really well) then i usually put it together of the game creation tool of choice. for me it usually turns out really well the first time around.

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Design Runner
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Posted: 20th Jul 2011 06:45
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Quote: "Well, for example, don't use default GIMP Media (your signature)"

Huh? I made everything in my signature myself (other than the font). In gimp of course, but from scratch.
Quote: "i like to bake on the Ambient Occlusion Maps first then use that to save lighting performance with static objects"

What is the ambient occulsion map? I always thought that was the same thing as a spec map
Quote: "then use GIMP's Normal Mapping plugin to generate the normals, then use the Desaturate tool and the Brightness\Contrast tools to generate a Spec map(works really well)"

Great tip on using the normal map as a base for the spec map, I'll keep that in mind!
Thanks a lot for the advice, it is really helping. But one thing no one has answered yet is how to get the generate the normal map from a high poly mesh to a low poly mesh. Do I just plug both into a program like xnormal, make some adjustments, and run it through? Thanks for everything guys!

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anayar
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Posted: 20th Jul 2011 20:54
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Quote: "But one thing no one has answered yet is how to get the generate the normal map from a high poly mesh to a low poly mesh"

No, I think you just use the Normal Map from the high poly mesh on the Low-Poly mesh... No need to tweak anything. All the normal is is the fine details, like nuts and bolts, and the high poly model will have these modeled into it. The low-poly model will use the High-Polies normal map bake to simulate the appearance of these nuts&bolts

Hope that makes sense lol ... I might be rambling as Im damn tired

Cheers,
Anayar


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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 21st Jul 2011 00:25
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Quote: "Huh? I made everything in my signature myself (other than the font). In gimp of course, but from scratch."

Oh, sorry, it looked alot like one of the default GIMP textures.
Quote: "What is the ambient occlusion map? I always thought that was the same thing as a spec map "

Nope, Spec simulates reflectivity, Ambient Occlusion is universal lighting, sort of like what the sun does, it makes the models ambient, i posted screenshot of what a model with an Ambient Occlusion map looks like. I find it to be a great base for a texture, if you want, i can make you a tutorial on how to make one in Blender 2.49 (i don't use 2.5).

Quote: "But one thing no one has answered yet is how to get the generate the normal map from a high poly mesh to a low poly mesh. Do I just plug both into a program like xnormal, make some adjustments, and run it through? Thanks for everything guys!"


There is a Program made by NVIDIA called Melody which does exactly what your asking for. I never got it to work that well, personally but you may have better luck, I'd suggest giving it a try.

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starmind 001
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2011 03:17
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_occlusion

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2011 09:28
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Ah, Starmind 001, Much better explanation than mine but my point stands, ambient occlusion is a good base for a texture. Just remember that whenever you overlay a texture on the Ambient Occlusion map, use the Multiply setting for it, also, using GIMP, go to the Enhance tab and click on "De-speckle" option and get rid of the graininess on the map, unless that is your game's style, of course.

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Design Runner
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2011 18:51
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Thanks for the information guys. I know have just one last question
How do I create a normal map from the high poly model?

[url=www.designrunner.webs.com][/url]
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starmind 001
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2011 01:54
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Here is something simple for you to start on.


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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2011 06:59
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Quote: "How do I create a normal map from the high poly model?"

http://www.nvidia.com/object/melody_home.html

^ This answers your question

I never personally got the Blender method to work, all it comes up with for me is a purple color that's the shape of my UV Map, i might look up the tutorial and refresh myself on how to do this.

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Design Runner
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2011 08:01
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http://www.nvidia.com/object/melody_home.html
I already downloaded that. Didn't even know it could do that. Time to read the documentation! Thanks guys.
@Starmind: I don't use blender, but if I start that will come in handy. Thanks!

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2011 18:59
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I would Use blender for it's UV Mapper, it's relatively easy to use and it allows you to save your UV maps to images so you can edit the image in GIMP as you please. You can still use Wings3D, but just use Blender's texturing tools, i find the "Texture Paint" mode very handy for UV Mapping, you can just mark on the faces you want to texture and it will show up on the image right where you marked so you can tell which faces get what texture.

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Design Runner
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2011 20:18
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Wings 3d's UV mapper is excellent. I'm not being stubborn, it is just that it works, and I already know how to use it. I can export my UV maps to edit in gimp, and it has a similar feature to the texture paint. I really do appreciate the suggestions though, knowing what programs have what features is very useful knowledge.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:45
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Ok, I didn't think Wings had a UV Mapper, I never used it.
Do you have any other questions that we may need to answer?

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Design Runner
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:52
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At the moment no, thanks for all your help so far! I'm sure, though, as I get used to these techniques I will develop some questions about settings and errors, so expect this thread to be bumped.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 20:10
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Ok, I'll check back frequently for any questions. If you need to ask me anything immediately, just E-mail me at Travisgatlin53@yahoo.com
and i will try my best to answer any of your questions.

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