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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Glitches in model pack objects

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DVader
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Posted: 9th Aug 2011 19:49 Edited at: 9th Aug 2011 19:50
Hello, I am wondering if anyone else has noticed glitches with any of the model packs TGC has released? I have just tried the blacksmith out of the viking pack and have noticed a stray poly stretching out of his back in certain anim frames.

I have had this with another fps model, can't remember the exact name offhand, but it was a thug with a baseball bat. Looked great but had a weird inverted poly out of his back. This was off the gamestore and not a pack though.

So my question is has anyone noticed others like this? Also any chance of them being fixed in the future? I did want to use the blacksmith object but that glitch is awfully off putting.



http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
baxslash
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 12:14
Are you rotating any limbs? Sometimes I get a similar glitch when I'm doing that. Perhaps you are straying outside the animation start and end frames?

Just some suggestions, I haven't had this problem within the boundaries of individual animations myself...

DVader
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 17:29
Do you have the viking pack? That is where the offending blacksmith comes from. I have been playing about with the object a bit (in DB), and have tried single frames, playing only the few frames of the walk cycle and also the entire set of anim frames. I get the glitch each time, a poly that has been left out of the anim and just stretches as the character moves from it. It looks like a bug in the model to me, which is annoying as I have no way to fix that. As a purchased product I shouldn't have to either.
All the other models from the same pack I have tested thus far have been ok, it seems just the particular one I wanted that is bugged

I am not doing anything to the model other than playing or looping the animation that is built in by the way. So it's not that. It seems to be a mistake in the animation by the author of the model. I doubt that will be fixed though, but you never know!

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
baxslash
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 17:39
I don't have it, I was just hoping maybe it was user error which is always easier to fix!

I would try posting on the FPS board see if anyone there knows who made the model and if they might be able to fix it?

I used to be a blacksmith funnily enough! 13 years of playing with hot metal. Great fun!

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 00:54 Edited at: 12th Aug 2011 11:41
I've got that model pack. I've just tested it quickly using the DX9 Viewer and couldn't immediately spot the problem. It'll be easier to check in DBPro because you can step through the frames. However, I'm busy at the moment but hope to have some time to look into this more carefully next week. To save time could you tell us which frame or frames seem to have the problem? It might be possible to edit the X file manually once we know where the problem lies - it is a simple text file.

[Edit Don't worry. I've reproduced the problem. I'll investigate when I get a bit more time. It looks like there's one stray poly. It might be possible to delete it. There do seem to be some other problems with that particular model though.]

I agree though that the model's author ought to fix it if there is indeed a problem.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 14:12 Edited at: 12th Aug 2011 15:46
I think I've tracked down the problem. It looks as if vertex 966 has been left out of the limb information. I've just added it manually with a crude guess at a sensible vertex weight (it was missing from the data for the Left Shoulder) and at first sight the model seems OK. However, I haven't checked it carefully for consequential errors introduced by the fix.

Revised model attached. Could you test it and report back?

[Edit Hmm? Done a few more tests. I seem to have moved the problem rather than cure it. I'll see if I can make a better fix. My problem is that the vertex in question should probably be affected by more than one limb in the animation and I can only guess what was intended. I probably need to add it to the parent and child limbs as well - or something like that. ]

[Edit2 Replaced the model with a revised fixed model. There are still some errors but they seem to be in the original version as well. Hopefully this fixes the worst error.]
DVader
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 16:53 Edited at: 12th Aug 2011 19:55
Nice one Green Gandalf! I had little hope for this thread only having one responder until now. It sounds as if you have sorted it. At least got it in a better state to use. I will test it and let you know how it goes. I really should enable notification when a thread is responded too, rather than just checking in every so often.

Tested it, it seems fixed to me from all angles now. Thanks a lot! I wonder if the bosso character can be fixed in the same way? I have another quick related question. I got hold a list of the frame ranges for animations, to make it less of a pain trying to find the correct start, and end of each anim. However it seems to be completly wrong for this object.


I thought there might be anim info in the fpe file but found nothing on inspection for this model. So at the moment I am manually trying to work the ranges out myself. Is there anywhere else I could possibly find the correct ranges to take the pain out of this process?

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 21:07
Quote: "So at the moment I am manually trying to work the ranges out myself."


That's what I usually end up doing. The fpe files seem to have rather incomplete details.

Quote: "I wonder if the bosso character can be fixed in the same way?"


Which object in which pack?
DVader
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 21:39
Not sure if that model is in a pack. I got it off the gamestore. The models left arm seems to have a poly that is inverted and so appears see through. You can only notice this from the rear of the object. I noticed this ages ago messing about with 3rd person movement. I can put the file up here if you want to take a look?
Otherwise, search for bosso in the gamestore and you will find the one I mean. I have the one with the bat rather than a gun.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Aug 2011 14:40
Quote: "The models left arm seems to have a poly that is inverted and so appears see through."


Are you sure the poly is there at all, i.e. does it show when you turn off culling? If it does then the solution could be simple - you'll need to change the order of the vertices in that particular poly by swapping just one pair of vertices. You may need to change the sign of the normals as well. If the object is not too high and it is a standard text X file you can do this in any text editor - but you need to find out which poly needs to be changed and that can be tricky. If you have a modelling package you can probably just select the offending poly and reverse its vertex order (or whatever phrase the package uses) then just re-export the model.

Here's a simple example X file using one of IanM's high poly plains (I used the make mesh from object and save mesh commands for this):

Save this as "polyOK2x2.x":



and this one as "polyNotOK2x2.x":



Here's the code I used to create the mesh file:



and here's the code I used to display the two objects:



Quote: "I can put the file up here if you want to take a look?"


That would be helpful unless you can fix the problem yourself - but don't bother if it's not a text X file as I won't be able to help.
DVader
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Posted: 13th Aug 2011 21:22 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 21:22
Unfortunately I have no 3D package capable of loading .x models in a form I can use to find out which poly is incorrect. So I'll attach the object here.
Download Removed.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 03:25 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 03:25
Quote: "Unfortunately I have no 3D package capable of loading .x models in a form I can use to find out which poly is incorrect."


I just use DBPro. Simply put a small red sphere at each vertex (use the vertexdata commands to get this information). Then you'll have a red "marker" sphere at each corner of each poly. Then use pick object to find out the object ids of the wrong poly which in turn will tell you which vertices and hence which poly (by inspecting the X file in NotePad or WordPad etc).

There's a minor complication that the spheres don't move with the animated object but there are ways around that. Anyway, I'll look at this tomorrow. You can delete the download from your post now - I've got it OK thanks.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 14:27 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 14:27
I can't see an obvious problem with the model. A few minor gaps appear in places in the animation sequences where two limbs meet but I doubt you'd be worried about those.

Could you supply a screenshot highlighting the problem you refer to?

Here's a screenshot of the static model in various positions showing my red vertex marker objects - but I can't see a missing poly:

DVader
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 21:39 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 21:41
I thought it may be difficult to see without the texture. I don't think the poly is missing, but inverted or back to front so to speak, so you can see through it. I include a picture so you can see. It is on his left arm, his inner tricep to be more precise. I really appreciate you taking the time to help with this, thank you.



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 23:37
I see.

I don't have the texture so I can't work with that for myself. My guess is that the polys for the character's shirt are passing through his arms - I noticed something like that in the animations. It takes quite a lot of work to ensure that limbs don't pass through each other when setting up an animation so I'm not surprised it wasn't done here. You get what you pay for I think. I wouldn't call that an error - more a refinement that isn't worth the expense to fix.

Perhaps someone with more modelling skills than I have can offer a solution.
DVader
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 19:42
Fair enough, sorry about the delay, I kinda lost track of this post. Thanks for the help on this!

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