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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Physics DLL

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paopow
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 19:41 Edited at: 21st Oct 2003 19:42
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Ok,

there's a physics DLL over at BlitzBasic3d..it looks really good and pretty much has all you need for a physics engine...

http://www.blitzbasic.com/bbs/posts.php?topic=25409

is there a way someone can make it useful for Darkbasic Pro?

Thanks in advance
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Mussi
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 00:13
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If it's free, I'm sure there is some1 than can make it very usefull for DBP

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 00:24
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You just cant get hold of the required structures in DBPro, so its doubtful whether it can be converted.


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Mussi
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 01:03
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But it's a dll
but your probablely wright cus I odn't know much about that stuff

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adr
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 02:21
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From what I've learnt from making the DLL equivalent of "hello world", the way in which DBPro calls DLLs is quite proprietry - A DLL for DBPro needs to be compiled in a very specific way.

If you really wanted this library, your best bet would be to know how BlitzBasic calls DLLs internally, and make a DLL wrapper for the DLL.

That or just port some open source physics library.

Can I ask you a Question?
What is it?
It's an interrogative form of sentence, used to test knowledge. But that's not important right now.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 03:30
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actually the only thing really standing in the way is that there is no real access to the pipeline and/or object instances outside of DBPs current standing DLLs.

Although you can still achieve physics DLLs the way in which you must take all of the objects current attributes, parser them, figure out the collision and parse them back is a nightmare and SLOW.

there are only 2 ways i've currently thought around it, but not put them into practise yet due to seveare lack of time.

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paopow
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 05:00
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hmm... i guess back to the drawingboard.. it sounds like we'll have to wait for someone to write a physics dll for darkbasic then..
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zircher
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 06:16
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Call me dense, but why wait for a DLL? If you need it, write it in code. (Assuming that laziness is not part of the equation...)
--
TAZ
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Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 07:40 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 07:40
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Laziness is often not where time constraints are. Saving time using DLLs is quite excusable/smart... look at how many major development houses are using others' 3d engines. Why reinvent the wheel?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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PolyVector
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 08:00 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 08:21
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Oh wow... so there is interest in this kinda engine?
well i'm working on one for DBPro if anyone want's to check out a demo....this ver is kinda outta date w/ my current ver. but is still good...
Tell me whatcha think

http://www.skunksoft.com/PhysicsTest.zip
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paopow
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 09:36
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hmm.. the zip file is corrupt.. can you repost it again?
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PolyVector
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 10:37 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 11:04
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Try it now :/
http://www.skunksoft.com/PhysicsTest.zip
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paopow
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 11:37 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 11:37
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Very cool!!
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Scraggle
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 12:06
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Very cool indeed!

That is most impressive

You say this is out of date with current version?

So what's new in your latest version?
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PolyVector
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 13:46 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 13:55
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That ver. was just a test to see if I could do mesh deformation in DBPro... Because I'm coding this engine to be a DLL, I had to remake it in dbpro for the test.... It seems to work alright so I'm incorporating the deformation routines to be external and support multiple formats (.b3d for example)
...since the mesh deformation isn't complete, the new version *looks* worse...that's why I posted the old one

So to answer yer question...

The new version has a smoother cloth effect... TONS of quality options... Ropes... It'll be a while before it's ready for release... I anticipate the final version to be faster, support Ragdoll Physics... Cubes... Spheres... Cylindars... Custom Objects
I'm building this engine to be as simple to use as possible... So I'm open to suggestions...

Simple app (pseudo code)


And I almost forgot... It will have a very simple collision interface... It will allow you to use ANY collision routines you want... When you detect a collision, you simply call the physics collision function w/ whatever info you have... normals are nice but not necesarry... It'll be tested with the NuclearGlory collision dll v2.0

One thing I NEED HELP WITH... Does anybody know how to get the Euler angles from a vector(or 2 or 3)... I have no problem finding vectors that are perpendicular and aligned to the objects' own axis... Just no clue on the conversion to Euler angles or Quaternians
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Vandetta
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 13:50
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WOW! That is very cool.
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Tidus
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 14:46
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This engine is really good I want it, when it you be done? and will be free?
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PolyVector
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 15:49 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 15:52
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It'll be done in a month or two... I'm ghetto-poor, but I'll keep it free... At worst I'll have it send you to my site when the DLL unloads unless you register
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adr
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 18:06
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You could of course GPL it, and with the torrent of code submissions it would be the best DBPro Physics Engine, thus making your name internationally renound.

Just a thought...

Can I ask you a Question?
What is it?
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 19:03
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Extremely clever. Looking forward to it.

Brains are for idiots.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 19:10
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Quote: "You could of course GPL it"


What does that mean then?
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 19:15
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PolyVector. In a word, that demo is AMAZING. That demo was so impressive, that rug moved better than the curtains in splinter cell. Cant wait to see the final .dll.

Wonder, if you can do a physics engine that rivals those of commercial developers, what else are you capable of to expand DBPro's capabilities?

And I also noticed if you hold the left or right key down, the moment the rug hits the ground it starts to roll and flip like a car. It could be used to make something like Stuntman or driver, which would be cool.

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
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PolyVector
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 20:09 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 20:24
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I haven't really thought about it much... But that's a good idea adr... I'm sure I'll talk to everyone about it before making a decision when the engine's ready... I probably couldn't make any real money on it anyways
Maybe I'll go with GPL donationware

Must have just missed yer post M00NSHiNE
Gee THANKS!... I'm gunna have to watch my ego now
Rival commercial engines?... I'm not sure mine's up to par... But I do know that lots of games use Continuum Dynamics / Verlet engines.... Halo comes to mind...
I sure hope I can expand DBPro's functionality... This is my first real DBPro project, and it would be nice to get my name out there. I messed a little with DB Classic last year... Ya might remember I posted that stupid car-physics demo I never finished

I've heard of Stuntman and Driver... I'm working my way up to adding in vehicle physics... That should be a real chalange...
If anybody knows the answer to my question a few posts ago... It would be MUCH appritiated...
I did find that you can get the angles w/ Matrix4 commands... BUT I want it all built-in... so if anyone knows how, POST AWAY!
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Dreamora
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 21:19
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It is quite cool, although the demo had some physical incorrectneses. It's very impressiv to see the whole thing together with mesh deformation.
Can't wait to see more of your DLL


the euler angles are quite easy to get, just a collection of ArcusCosinus,ArcusTangens and ArcusSinus together with the vectors direction.
Quite complicate to explain and have no picture to show the whole thing.

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David T
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 23:22
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I like skidding really fast along the ground, and so jumping up and down

Can't wait to see more of this.

Fishie says:
"Those who fail to prepare prepare to fail"
"Rules are for the guidance of the wise and the blind obdeniency of the fools"
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 01:01
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Dreamflower, is there no a site that does explain it anywhere?

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 01:38
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I can't think of the words. That is simply the most impressive demo I have ever seen in Classic or Pro. I'm amazed. Can I beta test? Alpha test? Host your files on my server? Anything, anything at all

I would gladly pay $20 for a physics engine like the one you're describing.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Bren
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:03
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same here, I wouldn't mind paying such a small fee for something like that

but ofcourse I don't sya no to free

Polyvector, in what language are your writing this dll?
I hope I can use it in VB6 or VB.NET too

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spooky
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:03
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Holy cow!

If your mansion house needs haunting, just call Rentaghost!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:31
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Quote: "That ver. was just a test to see if I could do mesh deformation in DBPro... Because I'm coding this engine to be a DLL, I had to remake it in dbpro for the test.... It seems to work alright so I'm incorporating the deformation routines to be external and support multiple formats (.b3d for example)
...since the mesh deformation isn't complete, the new version *looks* worse...that's why I posted the old one

So to answer yer question...

The new version has a smoother cloth effect... TONS of quality options... Ropes... It'll be a while before it's ready for release... I anticipate the final version to be faster, support Ragdoll Physics... Cubes... Spheres... Cylindars... Custom Objects
I'm building this engine to be as simple to use as possible... So I'm open to suggestions..."


should work alot faster as the test version is pure DBP, but is kinda slow because of the fullscreen-windowed mode, but then thats just a single rug - the more object instances the more it slows.

DBPs biggest enemy for physics atm is the "Change Mesh" command. everything else before that is very quick, but that can add alot of latency

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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 03:59
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Ok, I second that, or third it or whatever. This physics engine is incredible. Looks like it could simulate pretty much whatever you wanted simulated. I personally am not remotely fussed about mesh deformation - I'm happy with rigid body physics.

Get this out to the masses lad! Get some source code out there, or a DLL or something, cos this is the sorta code that'll actually make decent games.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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billy777
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 07:19
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YES!!! please let me know when this will support vehicle physics - my game REPO MAN needs this bad. my current physics are not up to par. (as you can see if you download my game)

http://www.lasthalfofdarkness.com/redmoon
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Phaelax
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 07:38
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Most impressive. I tried something similar. I was going to make a soft body demo, but couldn't quite get a handle on using memblocks for mesh deformation.
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PolyVector
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 11:24
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Wow, Thanks everyone!... Didn't think I'd get so many responses....

@Bren, It should work in any language that supports DLLs... It's not OOP so there's no prob... It's actually made in PureBasic... Great language for making apps/DLLs... Eventually I want to ASM optimize it oOoOo

Quoth the Raven...
Quote: "the more object instances the more it slows"

Very true... but it's also true of most anything... That was an average-detail cloth...you can raise/lower the poly-count or Constraint Calculations as you need and get 100x the speed... I wouldn't use something that detailed more than once in a real game

@Everyone... Thank you all very much for the input...
I just got the mesh deformation working in the DLL and got DBP using it exactly as the demo showed
Only it's about a page of code now!
I added a command to return the XYZ-Coord of a (interpolated)point on the cloth based on X and Y percentages... It'll work for ropes too
Oh oh oh... The ropes in my engine don't fold in on themselves like the ones in the blitz community (no offense anyone)

*Begs For An AlignToVector OR LookAt Function*
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richardneail
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 11:53
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Hi,

It all sounds very nice but I cant download the demo to look at as it says the web site cant be found

Rich

You might never win but if you give in will you ever know ??????
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PolyVector
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 11:58
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Sorry, my hosting is TERRIBLE... They're down all the time... When I finish I'm going to switch to a better service...

Crappy Host:
http://www.skunksoft.com/PhysicsTest.zip

Crappy Mirror:
http://members.cox.net/polyvector/PhysicsTest.zip
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richardneail
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 17:57
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, now that is nice

Would I be able to use this for car physics?

If ya want a beta tester pop over to my web site and drop me a email

Rich

You might never win but if you give in will you ever know ??????
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richardneail
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 18:02
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In answer to your question about euler angles I think I have that in a book somewhere I will have a look and let you know.

Rich

You might never win but if you give in will you ever know ??????
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 18:22
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This would work with a car, all you'd need to do is have the model solid, not have it deform when in the air like the carpet here, but deform the mesh at points of impact. I'd LOVE to see a game that had proper deformation of the body when it crashes....even cars in Driver etc seemed like they were made from stone....you could hit another car at 90mph and only ruffle the bonnet a bit!!!

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
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PolyVector
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 18:29
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Car physics are going to take some work... but should be in the final version...
When it's ready for testing I'll start a thread on it
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Bren
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 20:03
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Great work poly, keep it up. Care to write a tutorial on this I suck at this topic and I realy want to do something about. Does anyone know some good basic game physics tutorial? After that it's time for AI

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Dreamora
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 20:57
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I've the euler angles in my game maths primer for 3D, when I find the time I wall make digicam pics of the it in hope it helpes ... *it's a quite short and simple part, not as the quaternions *

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PolyVector
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@Dreamflower... Thanks! Euler or Quaternions will work for me... whatever is easier for you to do... Euler=Better for my purposes but I can convert...
I plan on having Euler angles for the user to place more ridged objects... and I'm going to momentarily use Quaternions in AddRelativeRotationalVelocity() type commands

@Bren... When I finish my engine I'll document it, write some tutorials on how to use it... Then I'll consider writing a tutorial on basic game physics if there's enough interest
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Bren
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great polyvector I can't wait
and I'm sure there's enough interested ... I can be very interested you know

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Fallout
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Alright Polyvector. Still sold on it here. When you get the car physics in place, I'll hook you up with my sister.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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Bren
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will there be physics to crash stuff. For example let a monster break through a wall, in other words some serious deformation, fragmentation actualy of an object when the collision is hard enough ... I want too much, but you never know

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Ian T
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Bren-- that's called CSG. Wait and you never know what might happen-- but I doubt it'll make it into early releases of the engine because of its complexity . But Poly is the authority on it, obviously

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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PolyVector
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Whoah!... Who said anythin' about CGS?... HEHEH, dun get carried away now... I ain't a genius...
There's going to be a command CutRope() that returns the the ptr to a the rope created by the cut...
There'll be CutCloth() commands but they will have to be handled differently...
I think that's as far into destruction as I'm going to get w/ this engine
If I ever do a rigid body dynamics engine I'll do the breakable stuff... that's always fun
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richardneail
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 11:53
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Hi,

PolyVector, if you can drop me a email I send you the pages over from Mathematics for 3D Game Programming & computer Graphics, and also from Physics for Game Developers.

It should contain all Euler and Quaternions info you are looking for.

You can find my email address on the About page on my web site.

Rich

You might never win but if you give in will you ever know ??????
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PolyVector
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 12:15 Edited at: 24th Oct 2003 12:17
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Thanks rich!
I'm switching SkunkSoft.com hosts right now so my email won't be working... I have a hotmail account but can't send anything using it cuz of my router...
so if you could just send it to [email protected] I'd appriciate it

BTW, neeto lookin' racing games
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