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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Breaking the 4th wall.

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bruce3371
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Joined: 4th Aug 2010
Location: Englishland
Posted: 14th Aug 2011 16:35 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 16:38
What do people think about breaking the 4th wall in computer games?

If you're not sure what the 4th wall is, it is a term that was first used to describe the imaginary wall between the actors on stage in a theater play, and the audience.

Breaking the 4th wall is where the actors interact directly with the audience, as if the 4th wall isn't there.

The play is supposed to be telling a story as if there is no audience and that it is taking place in a real world environment, so breaking the 4th wall can destroy this impression.

In computer games, the 4th wall can be broken when the game interacts directly with the player. This can be a problem with FPS games in particular, that are specifically designed to immerse the player in a 'real world environment'. An example of this is in training levels, where the player is instructed to press the W, A, S and D keys to move around, thus destroying the illusion that the player is in a 'real world environment' (after all, you don't press the W.A.S and D keys to move around in real life!). IMO this is why gameplay tutorials are better off done in a manual, rather than in-game.

So, my question is this, how can we make our FPS games interact with the player, without breaking the 4th wall?

Again, sorry if this is in the wrong place (it might have been better off in the game design theory board?), but I thought it was relevant to FPSC, because I'm talking primarily about FPS games.

maho76
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Location: universe-hub, playing the flute
Posted: 14th Aug 2011 17:13 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 17:15
Quote: "So, my question is this, how can we make our FPS games interact with the player, without breaking the 4th wall?
"


your game does this all the time with the scripts used to force the player for a reaction, so active scripts that interaction with the player and are not only part of the enviroment. but even these "inactive" parts of the scripts interact with the players mood.

also in theatre the 4th wall only exists when you break it. its some kind of schroedingers cat in theatre-enviroment (there is also a play with this theme and named "the 4th wall". i have visited it in hamburg a few years ago,very interesting. )

so, this whole question doesnt make any sense, sorry

in use of your example with the key-bindings, you can integrate that with story and a short keypad-screen in the print-tutorial so you dont have to show up the keys. but that has nothing to do with the 4th wall, as you said. in this case the 4th wall simply doesnt exist when you enter the game (and dont use any methods to break it while playing).
bruce3371
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Location: Englishland
Posted: 14th Aug 2011 18:04
In theater, the 4th wall is always there, but invisible (it is, after all, an imaginary wall). The only time when the 4th wall genuinely isn't there, is in a Pantomime, when the whole point of the performance is to interact with the audience.

http://www.artandpopularculture.com/Fourth_wall provides a good explanation of what exactly the 4th wall is. I'm also fully aware of what it is, because I have been in a fair few theater performances myself!

As far as my own game is concerned, the only times when the 4th wall is broken, are when messages pop up telling the player what to do. This is what I meant when I said about the game interacting directly with the player.

These on screen messages are the equivalent of an actor turning to the audience and speaking directly to them, thus breaking the 4th wall.

The rest of the scripts are there to enable the player to interact with/in the game environment (as opposed to the game interacting with the player), with no messages popping up, thus not breaking the 4th wall.

Let me put it another way; an FPS game is designed to immerse the player as if he/she is in a real world environment. Now ask yourself this; in an actual real world environment, would you expect to see a message pop up telling you to press the 'use' key to open a door?!

The following link is to an interesting article I found abut the 4th wall in computer games;http://www.suite101.com/content/breaking-the-fourth-wall-a21947

xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 14th Aug 2011 18:45
I don't do any theater, but I do like to watch movies. Sometimes, and this is mostly in comedies, the actor will turn to the camera and either say or do (body or facial expression) something that is obviously directed at the audience. "Breaking the wall" in this way can be very unexpected and funny/effective. I've also seen entire movies where the main character is telling the story to the audience while he plays out the part. Both work well for me.

Now as mentioned, a game is quite different in that we are meant to be immersed in the environment and not merely watching it like a movie. I could however imagine a scenario where the AI would turn to the player and knock on the inside of the monitor, making it obvious he was "breaking the wall" and telling the player something like "Shoot much?". Again, comedy but I'm sure it could be done in other ways, both as a tool and for that periodic comedic relief.

Brian.

bruce3371
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 19:31 Edited at: 14th Aug 2011 19:33
Yes I agree, it can be good for comedic effect, as long as the game or movie is a comedy, or has other comedy moments. Who can forget the ending of the film Blazing Saddles, where the 4th wall was not just broken, but well and truly demolished?!!

However, in a serious game, I don't believe it has any place. My biggest problem is with training levels, or in-game tutorials that break the 4th wall. IMO it was the only thing which spoilt the immersion of Half-Life 2 and its Episodes, where you had pop-up messages telling you which key to press to perform certain moves.

Like I said, IMO tutorials are best left in the game manual.

BREED
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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 00:31
Metal gear solid does this a lot, I remember in snake eater there were copies of PlayStation Magazine laying around in guards quarters and such. I think breaking the wall is good, you shouldn't take your game too seriously, constant action gets boring after awhile, comic relief works to your benefit. In my opinion at least.

We can't stop here, this is bat country!
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 17:30
You could try something like this.

The player wakes up, a character (AI) is looking at the player, maybe helping the player up on his feet. Then the character says:

"Haha! If this was a videogame, this would be the perfect moment where you would hear a robotic voice that tells you that you should press W A S D keyes to move, space to jump and look around with the mouse...
Haha! Stupid... Who plays videogames anyways?"

In that way hinting the controls, but in the same way dismissing the fact that you are playing a game...

Would that work?

EGG HEAD OF DOOM
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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 22:18
that is pretty funny. just read Dead Pool comics and you'll get tons of ideas on how to break the 4th wall.

JRH
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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 22:41
Quote: ""Haha! If this was a videogame, this would be the perfect moment where you would hear a robotic voice that tells you that you should press W A S D keyes to move, space to jump and look around with the mouse...
Haha! Stupid... Who plays videogames anyways?""


I love that! Gonna make a game with it XD Might force it into OpenFPS

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