Limitations of DarkBASIC PRO - GameCreators Forum

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Telek

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 11:35

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Hi, I am not that new to this forum, I have been absent for quite sometime however, i would like to know what limits DBP has in the 2D department? I mean can I actually make a game without any external libraries? I am mainly looking into creating games like late SNES style RPG's with higher rez sprints, so a tile engine with 32bit sprints, can DBP handle this or will I need to use C/C++ to accomplish this task?

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Van B

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 12:41

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DBPro should cope fine. It would cope finest if you used objects, like flat plains, a flat terrain for the map. So basically making your own 2D engine but in a 3D environment.

It would be faster, it would scale to whatever resolution you wanted, and you could have more special effects like alpha fading, shaders if you wanted, layered texturing etc etc. One major thing though is that you have proper z depth, so the characters could go behind things automatically, what would usually be a bit of a nightmare to code.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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BatVink

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 13:05

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I use the method VanB describes for my HUDs. They look 2D but are 3D plains. Like he says, the number of effects are far greater.

Regarding Z-depth, I "layer" my HUD items using an integer (1 to 10 gives me 10 layers and is more than enough). These are converted to an offset of 0.1 in the Z-axis. Because your 3D plains tend to be 600 units or more away from the camera, this value is not noticeable but gets the layering you need. (1 unit = 10 layers at a distance of 600 units)

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Max P

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 16:22

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I made a little test a few weeks ago, but the result of that was that plains were slower then sprites. However all my plains were sepparate objects. It turned out that sprites are 3 times faster.
If you want to try it too (maybe I made a stupid mistake in my test program) here is the code.

Sync on
Sync rate 0
open console

count = 1000
load image "grass_01.bmp", 1
syncCount = 100
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test plains ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Create plains
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    make object plain i, 100, 100
    texture object i, 1
    set object light i, 0
    set object ambient i, 0
    fade object i, 100
    set object fog i, 0
    set object filter i, 0
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "Plains"                                  : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"  : print console

// Sync plains
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

// Delete plains
for i=1 to count
    delete object i
next i

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test sprites ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
dxs initialize

pack = dxs create sprite pack()

// Create sprites
dim sprites(count) as integer
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    sprites(i) = dxs create sprite from image(1)
    dxs add sprite to pack sprites(i), pack
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "Sprites"                                 : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"  : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    dxs begin sprite pack render pack
    `dxs flush sprite pack render pack
    for s=1 to count
        `dxs begin sprite render sprites(i)
        dxs draw sprite sprites(i), 0, 0
        `dxs end sprite render sprites(i)
    next s
    dxs end sprite pack render pack
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

// delete sprites
for i=1 to count
    dxs delete sprite sprites(i)
next i

undim sprites()

`suspend for key

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test a2 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Print creation info to console
print console "a2"                                 : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",0," ms"        : print console

color as dword
color = rgb(255, 255, 255)

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        a2drawimage 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1.0, 0, color
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test paste image ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Print creation info to console
print console "paste image"                        : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",0," ms"        : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        paste image 1, 0, 0
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test db sprites ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
set sprite 1, 0, 1
// Create sprites
dim sprites(count) as integer
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    sprites(i) = find free sprite()
    sprite sprites(i), 100000, 10000, 1
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "db sprites"                         : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"        : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        paste sprite sprites(s), 0, 0
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test db sprites recreate ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Create sprites
dim sprites(count) as integer
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    sprites(i) = find free sprite()
    sprite sprites(i), 100000, 10000, 1
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "db sprites"                         : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"        : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        `delete sprite sprites(i)
        sprite sprites(i), 0, 0, 1
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console
cls
suspend for key

+ Code Snippet

Sync on
Sync rate 0
open console

count = 1000
load image "grass_01.bmp", 1
syncCount = 100
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test plains ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Create plains
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    make object plain i, 100, 100
    texture object i, 1
    set object light i, 0
    set object ambient i, 0
    fade object i, 100
    set object fog i, 0
    set object filter i, 0
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "Plains"                                  : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"  : print console

// Sync plains
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

// Delete plains
for i=1 to count
    delete object i
next i

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test sprites ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
dxs initialize

pack = dxs create sprite pack()

// Create sprites
dim sprites(count) as integer
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    sprites(i) = dxs create sprite from image(1)
    dxs add sprite to pack sprites(i), pack
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "Sprites"                                 : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"  : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    dxs begin sprite pack render pack
    `dxs flush sprite pack render pack
    for s=1 to count
        `dxs begin sprite render sprites(i)
        dxs draw sprite sprites(i), 0, 0
        `dxs end sprite render sprites(i)
    next s
    dxs end sprite pack render pack
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

// delete sprites
for i=1 to count
    dxs delete sprite sprites(i)
next i

undim sprites()

`suspend for key

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test a2 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Print creation info to console
print console "a2"                                 : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",0," ms"        : print console

color as dword
color = rgb(255, 255, 255)

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        a2drawimage 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1.0, 0, color
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test paste image ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Print creation info to console
print console "paste image"                        : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",0," ms"        : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        paste image 1, 0, 0
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test db sprites ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
set sprite 1, 0, 1
// Create sprites
dim sprites(count) as integer
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    sprites(i) = find free sprite()
    sprite sprites(i), 100000, 10000, 1
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "db sprites"                         : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"        : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        paste sprite sprites(s), 0, 0
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//// test db sprites recreate ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Create sprites
dim sprites(count) as integer
creationTime = timer()
for i=1 to count
    sprites(i) = find free sprite()
    sprite sprites(i), 100000, 10000, 1
next i
creationTime = timer() - creationTime

// Print creation info to console
print console "db sprites"                         : print console
print console "    Creation time: ",creationTime," ms"        : print console

// Sync sprites
syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        `delete sprite sprites(i)
        sprite sprites(i), 0, 0, 1
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

// Print sync info to console
print console "        Sync time: ",syncTime," ms"      : print console
cls
suspend for key

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Van B

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Location: Sunnyvale

Posted: 15th Aug 2011 16:32

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Quote: "I mean can I actually make a game without any external libraries?"

You should test standard sprites as well, and let us know what the speed difference is. I don't have the DXS plugin, not even sure what that is, but I'm guessing it's a 2D plugin that is probably faster than standard sprites.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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Max P

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 18:01

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Quote: "but I'm guessing it's a 2D plugin that is probably faster than standard sprites"

Yup it is

These are the results of the test:
Everything gets rendered 100 times, with 1000 objects/sprites
3d plains: 1773 ms
Advanced sprites: 360 ms
Advanced 2d: 678 ms
Paste Image: 671 ms
Default darkbasic sprites using paste sprite: 695 ms
Default dakrbasic sprites, recreating the sprites each frame: 54 ms!

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Van B

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Location: Sunnyvale

Posted: 15th Aug 2011 18:12

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Ohh, and one thing with standard sprites, you should disable back culling, like SET SPRITE sprno,0,0

This stops the sprite from storing it's backdrop, and should improve performance a lot. I have been using just a single sprite, then pasting the sprite to the screen, it's a very handy way to make a flexible PASTE IMAGE - to allow alpha, rotation, scaling, UV mapping. Damn there are a lot of options for 2D these days!

Now, I just wish there was a way to tilemap a sprite

- does that 2D plugin support tilemaps?

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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Grog Grueslayer

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Playing: Green Hell

Posted: 15th Aug 2011 18:24

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Quote: "Now, I just wish there was a way to tilemap a sprite - does that 2D plugin support tilemaps?"

You can use CREATE ANIMATED SPRITE to store all the tiles you need in a single image and sprite.

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Van B

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 18:35

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Yeah, that works pretty well, but I was thinking more about tiled maps - otherwise you have to paste each tile separately, as opposed to using an object (or even a matrix).

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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Max P

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 20:01 Edited at: 15th Aug 2011 20:03

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Quote: "does that 2D plugin support tilemaps"

Yup it does

I'll see if i can find the original thread.

edit Found it:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=113378&b=5
If you need any help with it just say it

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2Beastmode4u

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 20:17

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@Max P
Is there a different download link, because the one on the thread doesn't work.

Cheers.

God help me, Please.

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Max P

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Posted: 15th Aug 2011 21:04 Edited at: 15th Aug 2011 21:08

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Don't think so... I'll upload the files

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IanM

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 00:42

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Quote: "Default dakrbasic sprites, recreating the sprites each frame: 54 ms! "

Call me sceptical, but is that really the right timing for standard sprites?

Of course, if it is, I'm quite happy to take the credit for that, as I rewrote the rendering system for that plug-in

Get the latest Matrix1Utility plug-ins (20-APR-2011)

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Max P

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 13:40

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Yup it is the right time

This was the test code for that.

+ Code Snippet

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        `delete sprite sprites(i)
        sprite sprites(i), 0, 0, 1
    next s
    sync
next i
syncTime = timer() - syncTime

However when using the paste sprite the time goes up to almost 700 ms.

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zenassem

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 13:43

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The limitations of DBpro usually come down to the interface between the chair and the keyboard.

Your signature has been erased by a mod please reduce it to 600 x 120.

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Van B

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 13:55

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Well, if you create a sprite, then delete it, and do that several times, then sync - your not actually displaying the sprites

.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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Max P

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 13:57

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Quote: "then delete it"

I'mt not deleting them, just creating

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Van B

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 21:47

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Hmmmm, I just can't get the same results...

Paste image:5362
Sprite:2526
Plain:4317
Plain(alpha):4358

Using this test(Note that it stores the results in the clipboard):

sync on : sync rate 0
autocam off
position camera 0,0,-256

cls
text 0,0,"TEST"

get image 1,0,0,64,64,1

syncCount=10000
count=100

dim tt$(8)

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
         paste image 1,rnd(256),rnd(256),1
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(0)="Paste image:"+str$(timer()-syncTime)

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        sprite s, rnd(256),rnd(256), 1
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(1)="Sprite:"+str$(timer()-syncTime)

`make objects
    for s=1 to count
      make object plain s,60,60
      texture object s,1
      set object transparency s,0
      set object light s,0
      position object s,0,0,0
      delete sprite s
    next s

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
      position object s,rnd(200)-100,rnd(200)-100,0
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(2)="Plain:"+str$(timer()-syncTime)

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
      position object s,rnd(200)-100,rnd(200)-100,0
      set object transparency s,1
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(3)="Plain(alpha):"+str$(timer()-syncTime)

do

cls

c$=""
for t=0 to 3
    text 400,t*16,tt$(t) : c$=c$+tt$(t)
next t
write to clipboard c$
sync

loop

+ Code Snippet

sync on : sync rate 0
autocam off
position camera 0,0,-256

cls
text 0,0,"TEST"

get image 1,0,0,64,64,1

syncCount=10000
count=100

dim tt$(8)

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
         paste image 1,rnd(256),rnd(256),1
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(0)="Paste image:"+str$(timer()-syncTime)

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
        sprite s, rnd(256),rnd(256), 1
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(1)="Sprite:"+str$(timer()-syncTime)


`make objects
    for s=1 to count
      make object plain s,60,60
      texture object s,1
      set object transparency s,0
      set object light s,0
      position object s,0,0,0
      delete sprite s
    next s


syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
      position object s,rnd(200)-100,rnd(200)-100,0
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(2)="Plain:"+str$(timer()-syncTime)

syncTime = timer()
for i=1 to syncCount
    for s=1 to count
      position object s,rnd(200)-100,rnd(200)-100,0
      set object transparency s,1
    next s
    sync
next i
tt$(3)="Plain(alpha):"+str$(timer()-syncTime)


do

cls

c$=""
for t=0 to 3
    text 400,t*16,tt$(t) : c$=c$+tt$(t)
next t
write to clipboard c$
sync

loop

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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Max P

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Posted: 16th Aug 2011 22:33

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You'r right, I just found a problem with my code, it was recreating the same sprite instead of different ones.
Needed to change i to s.
I get around 365 ms now, same as advanced sprites. But advanced sprites can be manipulated.

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