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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] 3d card troubles, can ne1 help please :(

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Chenak
22
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Oct 2003 23:31
I just got a 128MB MSI GeforceFX 5200 and what i found was that its slower than my 128 Vertgo gf4600! I got halo right, on my old card it ran very smoothy but on my new one its very slow unless i set all the settings to the lowest possible number. Can anyone help?

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny...
Preston C
21
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Joined: 16th May 2003
Location: Penn State University Park
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 00:50
Quote: "the fx5200's are crap mate "


Nope, not crap on this end


Ian T
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Location: Around
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 01:32
Do you have a 128 Vertgo gf4600 to compare it too? If you've only used it in the high end, then of course it'll seem good-- but it's not nearly as good as it should be.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 03:21
not crap this end, and i have a Creative GeForce4 4800ti to compare it too.

What Detonator Drivers are you running?
What Operating System?
What DirectX Version?
and what are your general system specs (mobo/ram/cpu speed & fsb)

the fx line are pretty sensitive about the bottlenecks on a system, and are at thier best when everything is running in sync with thier setup.

should be running at 250mhz/400mhz ... depending on your system setup you may wish to change it - after you let me know what your system has setup i'll post instructions on changing everything.

you wouldn't believe how much speed you can gain from just syncing up your card.

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 21:11
Divide By Zero i don't really care what your systems or how upto date it is... I am currently helping out Inferno.

Quote: "FSB is 440mhz DDR (220mhz) - fsb depends totally on the speed and quality of your memory... I have 512mb corsair twinx xms3200ll (2 x 256mb twin modules running in dual DDR ) so that's how I can get 440mhz fsb (prob go higher if I lower the latencey but I'd rather leave it at 2-2-2-6 T1)
AGP & PCI is locked down at 66mhz and 33mhz respectively.
Processor is overclocked to 2.4ghz and it's an althon xp and the mainboard I'm using is an abit nf7-s v2.0 + latest flashed bios."


You are quite frankly an idiot, when you have 2 Different DDR Models running on a board your board will automatically use the SLOWER of the 2 speeds.

This will be either 400mhz OR BELOW, currently only RDRAM is capable of speeds faster than 400Mhz - not that it matters because this isn't you FSB speed ... your FSB speed is the Bus speed of the CPU <-> Chipset <-> Ram which DIRECTLY dictacts what your CPU Speed is.

400Mhz * 8.0mhz = 2.4Ghz

before you start to pull out all the BS from your arse make sure you know what your damn well talking about ... the only reason you have your Ram at a faster mhz is so that it can sync up with your FSB better - it has NOTHING to do with it.
If your Ram is at a Multiple of your FSB then your system will fun faster,

example being 266FSB * 8.0mhz = ~2.2Ghz for a 266FSB you will want 133/266/366mhz RAM basically SDRAM, PC1800 or PC2700
this will actually run MUCH faster than if you throw in the fastest ram you can have. Hell PC1800 256mb CLK 3.0 DDR is just as fast as PC3200 256mb CLK 2.0 DDR - provided you understand what the CLK rate is for it makes perfect sense as well.

As for the PCI & AGP locked at 66/33 Respectively... what are you the worlds BIGGEST IDIOT?!
PCI Should be at a Master 33mhz with a Host Bus if it is 2.1 compliant - this will give you 66Mhz Bandwidth as for your AGP... AGP1x is 66mhz, 2x is 166mhz, 4x is 266mhz - are you seeing the pattern numbnuts!?

the FX5200 unlike the GF4ti is a BUDGET Card, they didn't bother spending the time and effort setting up the BIOS on the cards to setup your system to make it work better.
Hell the cards are only designed to keep up with the 4200ti not the 4600ti ... although i can't perform bleedin miricles atleast i can help him to setup his system to get the most for his hardware.

Ian T
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 21:33
Etc etc etc... and in the end, the result matters, which is poor. There can be a billion flaming flamingo demons powering the card for all I care, but if it runs worse than a cheaper alternitive, it's poor design and that's the end of it.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
empty
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 23:29
Quote: "400Mhz * 8.0mhz = 2.4Ghz"

Intersting calculation.

Quote: "IF you decide to actually go and find this information out and realise I am correct, then raven I fully expect an appology from you"

No worries, both will never happen.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
IanM
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 23:46
Quote: "when you have 2 Different DDR Models running on a board your board will automatically use the SLOWER of the 2 speeds"


True

Quote: "400Mhz * 8.0mhz = 2.4Ghz"


Not quite - you mean 400Mhz * 8 = 2.4Ghz, where 8 is the clock multiplier

Also, I was under the impression that FSB speed *was* 400Mhz, and although the memory is 200Mhz, it gets fed data on both the rising and falling edge of the memory clock pulse (... or something like that)

Now I have a question ... why is it that when people get techy, they get a bug up their arse at the same time? Calm it down a bit guys.
empty
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Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 00:12
Quote: "Not quite - you mean 400Mhz * 8 = 2.4Ghz, where 8 is the clock multiplier"

Erm, 400 * 8 = 3200 therefore 400MHz * 8 = 3.2 GHz

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 00:12 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2003 00:18
Quote: "Also, I was under the impression that FSB speed *was* 400Mhz, and although the memory is 200Mhz, it gets fed data on both the rising and falling edge of the memory clock pulse (... or something like that)"


No fsb it is actually only 200mhz, it gets fed twice where it was normally fed once but the fequency is still 200mhz. Hence when you work out the speed it's 100mhz * 10 = 1000 not 200mhz * 10 = 2000 It's proberly markinting reasons that they double it and put mhz on the end, it's a bigger and therefore better number when potential customers compare specs.

I would just get rid of the fx5200 if it isn't fast enough and you don't want the dx9 features.
I just buy a £50 card whenever the old £50 card isn't fast enough any more. I never buy full price games and by the time the games are being sold cheap the £50 card is fast enough to run them. For this the fx5200 is ok. I only replaced my card because the old one broke and the fx5200 isn't that much faster than cheap card from a year or two ago.
IanM
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 00:14
I stand corrected ... and my maths isn't quite what it was
ReD_eYe
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 00:22
ah! technical mumbo jumbo , no idea what anyone here is talking about.

ReD_eYe's rule:"The bigger the number the better it is"

Thats never failed me yet.... waits too be proven wrong


Go on, click on my signature image, you know you want to
Favourite smiley>>>
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:04
you not going to get one because you were wrong, and yeah my math was off as i only had 5mins to post but the fact remains ...

the FSB has nothing to do with the Ram Bus Speed, and its only the throughput value for the processor.
still remains that the FSB * Multiplyer = Processor Speed, DDR2 "Double DDR" isn't meaning 2 Seperate Speed Buses like you seem to believe but mean TWO THROUGHPUTS, Rather than having a single DDR Access you have 2 of them - this has nothing to do with the Speed of the Ram it simply means it can handel 2x the Input and Export load that Single DDR can.
And DDR simply handles 2 Loops within a Single Mhz Loop, so rather than processing 1 Set of Memory commands it can Process 2... which is different to the Double DDR becuase that is just additional Data NOT Data Processing.

But as I said the FSB has NOTHING to do with the Ram whatsoever - This is the Front Serial Bus Speed, which is the SPEED OF THE MOTHERBOARD ... you take the speed the motherboard is running at and multiply it until you reach the speed that the processor is capable of handling the instructions.

400mhz FSB becomes an 800Mhz bus not solely down to DDR technology but actually downto HyperThreading/HyperTransporting technology.
Which allows your processing upto 2 Processing Strings Per Cache Rather than the usual 1 - this is SIMILAR to DDR, but IS NOT DDR TECHNOLOGY.

The AGP Bus is a Multiplication of the original Bus Speed, which is 66Mhz this is achieved by Side Address Bandwidthing, basically upping the Speed of the bus to package larger strings of data rather than simply send the individual strings faster it sends a PACKET of strings.

The PCI Bus 2.1 Compliant however doesn't do this, it is capable of UPTO 66mhz transporting to Sync with the ^3 Motherboard FSB ... however it must keep a Host speed of 33mhz, which means you have Host Speed of 33mhz Bus + a Additional Address Speed of 33mhz - these are combined to achieve the 66mhz PCI bus which is EXACTLY why VAGP bloody works the way it does.

Before your wanna start spouting off how i should apologise lookup you s**t, i build freaking PCs no more than 7years ago for a job when this technology was just comming to pass, and i've not lost my touch with exactly what is capable of what.
Which is also why i can tell you that PCI Express WILL NEVER phase out the AGP port because it works TOTALLY different to PCI's design which is designed to bottleneck operations so that everyone can share the bandwidth just like a Cable Tolken Network does.

Quite frankly the more you say the MORE you show you don't have a f**king clue and again I AM HERE TO HELP INFERNO not some snot nosed brat with a bug up his ass.

IanM
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:18
Either play nice or not at all guys. There is absolutely no reason to make any of this personal. If you want to insult each other, trade emails instead - no-one else wants to see this crap.
IanM
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:27
In fact, I think this thread is already dead ...

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