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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Something needs to be done about the FPSC SHOWCASE board & finished games!

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The Storyteller 01
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Location: On a silent hill in dead space
Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 13:29 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 13:33
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For me it's really sad.

Posting on the Showcase board is kind of bad marketing, because the threads there really don't get the attention they deserve. And the games don't get the audience they deserve even more.

While WIP threads featuring screenshots only, get post counts of 100+, Showcase threads a lot of times don't get past page 1(!).

It's definitely not a matter of quality, because it's even true for developers like Wolf: His WIP threads have a double to triple post count than his Showcase threads.

I know we have the "downloadable games and demos" thread but imo it doesn't do much.

There are a couple things that can be done about it but they need time, effort - and probably money too. The NWN2 community site on IGN has all the features FPSC would need too:
- There is a list of (amongst other things)the latest and best community made games prominently placed.
- If you are registered, you can rate the games.
- There is a board of registered reviewers who get their own space to post reviews
- There is a list of the latest reviews.

Check the site out yourself, and you know what I mean: http://nwvault.ign.com/

What would help a lot to get more attention to the finished games and to FPS Creator generally is
- a TGC own database and download space for FPSC games filled with information about genre, nr. of levels, x9/x10/version Nr, features (like used MPs, custom stuff etc)
- the option for registered users to rate the games and write short reviews
- a list of the newest and highest rated games at the starting page of TGC (I mean, we have a screenshot gallery there, why not promote the REAL thing?)
- a special space for BotB, not only including the games but also how to get in there (as a little extra motivation for potential buyers)

And for those who think there aren't so much playable FPSC levels around: I have collected more than 150 so far.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Ched80
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Location: Peterborough, UK
Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 15:33
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I think the attention defficient regarding the Showcase you speak of is due to a few other factors too.

Firstly, developers tend to keep their WIP board alive by posting regular updates - once you've reached the time for showcasing you're approaching the end of the development cycle and naturally have less to post.

Secondly these boards are populated mainly by developers who enjoy the process of 'creating' over 'testing' the end product. Sure we like playing games, but I think some of us prefer looking at how others make games, rather than trying out the end product. Just look at how many comments there are about models and textures over game mechanics and re-playability.

Thirdly, people are generally lazy and most would rather post a comment on a WIP board than download the game and then post a full review of it. I'm guilty of this. I know I should download the completed games, but i don't, I choose instead to focus my time on my own projects.

Maybe a shake-up of the showcase would address this? I would like to see a rating system like the gallerey, or even a quick, 3-4 question, review system that people could submit.
Maybe the rules of the BOTB should be changed only allow completed games? This may force people to compelete their projects?

I kind of agree with you though, it is sad to see the WIP get so much attention when the finished products get a neglected, after all, people invesst a shed load of these time into these creative ventures.

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srealist
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 16:30
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Ched80, you are absolutely spot-on. As developers and artists, many of us find the process of creation to be the most interesting and exciting element of game making.

I know, for me personally, that whether it's a painting, an album, an applet, a FPSC game, or whatever...finishing is actually the painful part and often the most boring. All the little things that you have to do to consider your game finished (compatibility, drivers, errors, bugs, a missing sound or pop-up, etc.) can, in many of our minds, become tedious. Meanwhile, if someone comes up with a new idea for a new game, you are full of energy to start working on it.

This is a mental flaw. It's not a good thing. But it is very common behavior. I think this is a great thread because we need to be more conscious of this behavior and I think it will take a conscious effort for people to show more interest in completing their own projects and in the completed projects of others.

One way to help with this...implement some of StoryTellers ideas and others that come up in this thread. Make finished games more prominent on the site and celebrate their completion.

The nice thing about this forum is that people actually seem to care what others here think about their work. If people start seeing other users being showcased for their finished work, they might be more inclined to complete their projects as well.

Great thread. Thought provoking and right on!
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bruce3371
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 16:38 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 16:39
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Quote: "Secondly these boards are populated mainly by developers who enjoy the process of 'creating' over 'testing' the end product."


Guilty as charged!

Seriously, you all make some valid points, but, tbh, I can't see any changes being made to any of the boards. I mean, have any changes been made lately? I get the impression that TGC have been 'resting on their laurels' for a long time now with regards to the forums.

Plus of course there's the work involved, when TGC are concentrating their efforts on software development. No doubt someone will reply with "but it would only need a small change that won't need much work". How many 'small changes' have been suggested? Add them all up, and the work involved soon piles up.

Yes, it's a shame that the Showcase board doesn't get the attention it deserves, but I think it's more a question of atitudes than anything. I really can't see any changes to the boards making any difference, without a change in atitudes also happening.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 17:41
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Quote: "Secondly these boards are populated mainly by developers who enjoy the process of 'creating' over 'testing' the end product."


True as can be. And that's exactly why I think finished levels should be presented OUTSIDE of these boards to a broader public.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 17:46
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"Give a mouse a cookie, and he's going to want a glass of milk."

I don't know who said it first, but it fit's the nature of FPSC. The "do it all for you" nature of the software is to blame. Now not only should FPSC make your game, but TGC should promote it better. We have been given a place to post our games. If we want exposure, promotion, critique, etc... we need to take a little initiative. Some small part has to be our responsibility.

Brian.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 18:04
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Quote: "If we want exposure, promotion, critique, etc... we need to take a little initiative. Some small part has to be our responsibility."


+5


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
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michael x
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 20:01
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by time most these games get release in showcase.some of them i can't load.so there no point of comment on them.I for one don't even care.I for one don't depend on this forum. your game could be more notice if fpsc can work with the new AGK.then everybody can play your on any platform.one platform only is so old school.

more than what meets the eye

Welcome to SciFi Summer
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Wolf
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:53 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 21:57
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Quote: "f we want exposure, promotion, critique, etc... we need to take a little initiative. Some small part has to be our responsibility."


get it on indiedb. If your game is any good...everything else will happen just by itself

Quote: "one platform only is so old school."


Gaming is for PC...everything else is just a bunch of kids toys

Its true, a showcase thread does not get that much attention. But I don't think that adding more features would help it. Also: thank you for mentioning my games as quality references



-Wolf

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
http://serygalacaffeine.deviantart.com/
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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 22:21 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 22:22
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Apart from the possible advantages for the game developers, I still think, it would also push sales if the BotB games where presented on the starting page of TGC.

After all - what makes me want more to get my hands on a game editor, if not some cool games actually done with it

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Wolf
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 22:35
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Something a lot more important to me would be quality control for the fpsc user gallery.

Storytellers ideas are pretty good to me, but I highly doubt that they will be realised. FPSC Games where never presented as the flagship of fpsc so I doubt they will give it a few more slots on the frontpage.

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
http://serygalacaffeine.deviantart.com/
Twitter:@Serygala
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xplosys
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 22:49 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 22:50
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There's a problem with showcasing FPSC games on the TGC page. Half of the games in the showcase don't run and more have issues. They're better off sticking with screen shots.

Brian.

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 23:19 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 23:19
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Quote: "what makes me want more to get my hands on a game editor, if not some cool games actually done with it"


Photoshopped screenshots of a glorified scene filled with 20 zombies, dynamic shadows, several full screen shaders running at once, and the suspicous lack of a frame rate counter?


In all seriousness though, I'll admit as it's already been put out there, that I fall into the category of one of those who actually prefer sifting through all of the newest screenshots in the WIP board for inspiration as opposed to trying to get a buggy demo to play, which in most instances wouldn't provide me with more than 5 minutes of gameplay anyway. And even so, would give me the same FPS Creator-ish feel as the one before it. There are obviously exceptions, but yes; I'm one of those that prefer to linger around the WIP board simply for the screenshots as opposed to anticipating the actual release of the game/demo/beta.


On a related note, I do think sub forums within each board would work wonders with organization. The 7 or 8 stickied threads all relating to BOTB, VBOTB, and the archives in the showcase/wip seem they would benefit greatly from a single [BOTB] folder or sub forum altogether. Could get crazy and allow BOTB developers to post their new WIPS exclusively in the BOTB forum to seperate them from the new member projects, yeah. But it's all bells and whistles really. I'll be just as happy when the sub forums for AppGameKit get here

Kravenwolf

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rolfy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2011 19:07
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Since most of the games in showcase reflect older versions of FPSC (they may have been cool and innovative at the time) they wouldn,t help sales of the software if folks expected it to look and lag as bad as most of them do, at the same time a lot of the eye candy being introduced into this engine requires real skill to pull it off without lag even with recent performance updates.
So you build with a comp that handles it all but fewer than 10% of people can actually play it. At the same time you cant expect an individual to be clued up about everything and able to fix all bugs for all systems out there, sometimes I feel too much is expected around here.
Saying that I dont really see why TGC would ever consider putting any of the games in showcase up on the front page as examples of what the software can do.


Quote: "Photoshopped screenshots of a glorified scene filled with 20 zombies, dynamic shadows, several full screen shaders running at once, and the suspicous lack of a frame rate counter?"

The only way to know for sure is to download a demo or finished game and see for yourself, but if they dont play for you then no point looking at screenshots. I think y'all just answered the original question and more.

I am making the awesomest game, with the Foxes and Xplosys!! Click me here---->
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