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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Would like an amazing tree algorithm

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 17:39
It's so hard to make realistic trees. The ones that I have seen use disconnected limbs just placed as branches. I was hoping that somebody would have a go at building them from vertex in some sort of code. I really want the most realistic trees possible. I can manage the textures, but the tree building is the hard part. I don't know how to program with vertex.

Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 17:46
Yea, and I'd like a toilet made out of solid gold, but it's just not in the cards now is it? YEAH! XD

CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE AT http://imageposeidon.com/ !
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 17:49 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 17:50
Some people just like to know what is missing from projects, and proper trees have been missing since I first joined RealGameTools.com.

DVader
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 17:56
Treemagic is the best tool I have seen for making trees. It's not perfect but does a fairly good job.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Indicium
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 18:12
I've recently just discovered the awesomeness of shaders, so I'm going to point you to evolved's shaders. :3

http://www.evolved-software.com/shaders/advlighting

I know you're looking for how to model and create trees, but I hope the tree demo included with that zip file will make you see that you don't have to have super awesome models to get a realistic effect.

Good luck.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 18:18
Just tried TreeMagic and it was pretty awful.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 18:21 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 19:18
Quote: "I've recently just discovered the awesomeness of shaders, so I'm going to point you to evolved's shaders. :3

http://www.evolved-software.com/shaders/advlighting

I know you're looking for how to model and create trees, but I hope the tree demo included with that zip file will make you see that you don't have to have super awesome models to get a realistic effect.

Good luck. "


Thanks for all the help, and the lighting looks good, but the tree still looks really bad.

Something like this...
http://www.fallingpixel.com/oak-tree-3d-model/27823

Just about passes the radar.

EDIT: I do appreciate the work that people have put into their trees, but they are just spectacularly hard to make. I have tried for years to make a good tree without much success. I think it's a vertex job.

Wow.. look at these....
http://pro.bistudio.com/index.php/services/linda-tree-generator/gallery.html

They look like photo's.

The interface...
http://pro.bistudio.com/images/stories/gallery/LindaTech/Linda-sshot2-vegetace.jpg

chafari
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:06 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 21:43
Hi. l know that making a tree could be hard, but not with sternal 3D programs. Of course branches are the most hard, but these programs work with a soft mesh made up with bones that we can rotate and scale and when we like the how it looks we can save it. We can add or remove new branches and all that with the same mesh.
Cheers

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
Phaelax
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:10
Those Linda Trees look awesome, and they weren't pre-rendered like I thought.

Max P
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:37
Tree[d] is also a nice program:
http://www.frecle.net/index.php?show=treed.about
DVader
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:40
Well I said they aren't perfect, but with a bit of playing you can get reasonable trees from it. I seem to remember the original being better than V2.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:42 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2011 21:49
Quote: "Hi. l know that making a tree could be hard, but not with sternal 3D programs. Of course branches are the most hard, but these programs work with a deformable mesh made up with bones that we can rotate and scale and when we like the how it looks we can save it. We can add or remove new branches and all that with the same mesh.
Cheers"


The problem is that trees have a golden ratio, and that is hard to model. I'm after something almost photographic. I'm making ants climb a tree, and close-up. The more photographic it looks, the better. My ants will be Neural Networks, and I think for realistic brain activity, it would be better to have a realistic tree.



chafari
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:47
Quote: "it would be better to have a realistic tree"


In that case, isn't it better you had an image as backrop ?


Cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:51
Quote: "In that case, isn't it better you had an image as backrop ? "


The ants need to climb it, they need to learn how to climb it on their own by testing their grip on the bark.

chafari
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 21:53
What kind of tree are you looking for ? any tree ?



Cheers

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2011 22:04
A quite fat tree. If it's fairly realistic I can edit it. It's having the branches in the right places that is the hard part, so any tree with the branches joined in the right places.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 16:52
I've had an idea, but I don't know if it's possible. If you were working with vertices, would it be possible to take existing vertices from another model as the X/Y/Z locations of a new model's vertices? So I have made a bunch of squashed sphere to show an example. Say if you arranged some sphere like this, maybe it would be possible to take their edge points as locations for new vertices that would make a tree model over the top of the squashed sphere.



chafari
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 17:17
Quote: "would it be possible to take existing vertices from another model as the X/Y/Z locations of a new model's vertices? "


Yes we can do that using vertexdata commands.


cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 17:30
Hmm, that's the way to do it I think. Can you load just the outer ring into DB Pro, without the sphere?

Max P
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 17:59
Quote: "Can you load just the outer ring into DB Pro, without the sphere?"

Nope, but you can edit the vertexdata.
If every sphere is a limb you can do something like this to get the outer vertices:
chafari
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 19:38 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2011 19:39
What we could do, instead of checking vertex position ,we could check for limbs position. I know that is too hard, but if we load an external 3D object and check for vertexdata position, we are goint to get the same object unless we select vertex. For example, an sphere in Dbpro, of 10*10 vertex will have 121 vertex from 0 to 121. If we need just the outer ring, it could be from vertex 44 to 65 or from vertex 55 to 76. Take a look to this example




Cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 19:56
Yeah, and then if I squash a sphere, and rotate it the numbers should stay the same. This could be good. What I would do then is make a program to build a tree automatically with squashed sphere using some sort of Golden Rule Algorithm, than go round it with vertex.. if I can figure that out. At the moment though I am still building my ant. I like to plan ahead.

Disrupter52
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Posted: 24th Aug 2011 19:11
If you want super ultra trees that could never be used in a game, try XFrog. Expensive but good. Super ultra trees are hard to make, so if you find a program that makes them well then itll show how rare they are in its price. actually, if you try hard enough you can probably get those trees to work in a game.

Ive been looking for years for a good program to make trees for me for games, and Tree Magic was honestly the best choice. Even when i took the time to make a tree model and branches, texturing was always so much harder for me.

That Linda Generator looks pretty good, but they dont give out the software and even if they did, its apparently stupid hard to use (their own site says so).

In my opinion if you know exactly what you want as far as tree models, buy it. Or try to pirate something so you can see how it works and if you like it and then buy it so its not a waste of money. Dont pirate and then use whatever you pirated commercially, thats just dumb.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2011 20:50
Well TreeMagic uses separate branches, and in the wrong places. Being as I will be zooming in on ants on a tree, they will need to be good enough for a camera to still look realistic close up. I don't really need high poly trees though, just well textured trees with extruded branches. I think I will have to write the program myself.

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