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AppGameKit Classic Chat / FREE AGK Trial Version Released!

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DMXtra
22
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Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Dec 2011 11:19
So what makes it a trial version then? I don't understand. Are you going to limit it to 5 days?

App Game Kit (A.G.K.) - Want to be creative on many platforms at once? This is the tool you need.
baxslash
Valued Member
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Posted: 21st Dec 2011 11:26 Edited at: 21st Dec 2011 11:28
Quote: "So what makes it a trial version then? I don't understand. Are you going to limit it to 5 days?"

What makes being able to use compile and broadcast a full version? The trial is Tier 1 only so if someone sold a Tier 1 game they couldn't do it through Apple or AppUp, not sure about Android but I doubt that too.

DBPro is free to use none commercially (full version). This wouldn't even be a full version anyway since it doesn't include Tier 2.

LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
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Location: England
Posted: 21st Dec 2011 17:22
Some good ideas here, and I agree that we are probably losing a few users because the trial does not show everything AppGameKit has to offer. My intent for the trial was to demonstrate the language and IDE more than the spectrum of platform support. A suitably crippled broadcast experience is pretty easy to do for a future trial version. We'd just want to make sure that the trial version does not become too useful How about a trial broadcast mode where the app only runs for 60 seconds, so you get a feel for the speed and experience of developing on your chosen platform(s) but is not very practical for sustained play testing on the device. Other trial ideas welcome..

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
JimHawkins
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Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 22nd Dec 2011 09:07
How about nag screens?

-- Jim
fallen one
18
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Location: My imagination!
Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 16:20 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2011 16:25
How about a TGC huge watermark on the app so it cannot be released, also the trail not to run out.

Tier two is not available as a trail, if I want to hire c++ coders, and if I am hiring third part coders it will have to be c++ so they do not have to learn a new language, they cannot test the app, it has to go back to the producer, ie me, this slows development down, making things impossible, its a nightmare and effectively shuts third party coding development down, Ive had this before with an internal piece of software I had made for me, I could not hand it out to the hired programmers, so as they could not test, all testing had to be done by me, never again will I do that.

How things are structured now means those that are developing as a small indie studio rather than a hobbyist cannot function with how things are at the moment. Small studios do not have permanent staff sat in an office, they hire in, the next step after that may be permanent staff working full time, but to get to that step you need to go from sole trader working on sweat equity, to hiring third parties. How things are set up at the moment makes that difficult to facilitate.


JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 17:05
Anybody running an Indie studio needs to hire games programmers who understand graphics and audio interfaces, animation, input output. A competent games programmer will soon work comfortably with AppGameKit either in Basic or C++. It is not a separate flavour of C++.

What you're asking for isn't practical in any context. You want a free tool, which your programmers don't have, so that they can churn out code. To do what? 99% of the job is controlling the games engine. This applies to all systems, not just AGK. This is NOT the same as writing some old database stuff. All programmers need to know and understand the interface they're working with. There are plenty of very competent programmers in this forum.

I'm getting a bit fed up with people demanding more and more for nothing from TGC. The products are very cheap, considering the power available. Hire one good games programmer, buy him or her a copy of AppGameKit, and let them get on with the job. That's the way professionals do it, Indie or not.

-- Jim
fallen one
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 19:54 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2011 19:56
Quote: "Hire one good games programmer, buy him or her a copy of AppGameKit, and let them get on with the job. That's the way professionals do it, Indie or not."


Quote: "There are plenty of very competent programmers in this forum."


But not ones that like to do code work for money

Paid job for coder to make simple app.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=192612&b=41

142 views not one bid, I started with an easy first job to test the board, that way the data that comes back is not from lack of ability, this job is so simple, even I, a non coder can knock up a rough working example in html. Its what I expected, the only coders I have hired in the west is when they do it for status, not normally money, though they were also well paid. A really good coder in the west will probably do it as a day job, so don't want to do it unless its something cool, not really for the money. Now one problem we have in the west is living on credit, either straight welfare, or disguised welfare, student loans or credit cards, and also the fact that many people now think its quite alright to live with your parents until you are 30, we have a poor work ethic. So coding boards are an absolute must, developing countries (east Europeans also) have a good work ethic and are prepared to work. And before anyone gets self righteous, where do you think those cheap electric goods you enjoy come from, same goes for those jeans you bought from Tesco's for 4 pounds. Its also not a matter of paying pennies on the dollar, I have paid good rates of pay for coders by western standards. What I ask for is practical for the fact I have to be prepared to hire potentially outside of the AppGameKit forums.

The other option is if AppGameKit allows web pages to be viewed within it, again, I can hire people to make web apps and port it into AppGameKit, what I want is entirely practical, and is in the long term best interest for AppGameKit, the more, and both better quality of apps made in AppGameKit, the more popular it becomes, the more revenue it makes for TGC and the more they can afford to develop it, which benefits everybody involved.


JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 23:31
Seems you don't grasp that what you're asking for IS NOT practical, and is not sensible. Get real. And Happy Christmas!

-- Jim
fallen one
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 02:30 Edited at: 24th Dec 2011 02:39
I think you will find everything I say is on the square, and it is your beehiveior that is not practical. And Happy New Year.


baxslash
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 11:43
Fallen one, I would love to bid for your simple project but I could only provide a Basic and possibly C++ version.

Contact me via email if that's of any use to you.

Jim, I would check the AUP if I were you, there's no need.

DennisW
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Location: Ohio
Posted: 24th Dec 2011 16:02
@Fallen one

When your done I would like my soap box back LOL

Dennis

Ham and Eggs Breakfast
The Chicken was involved the Pig was Committed
bjadams
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 22:16
Fallen One, maybe many programmers don't want to sell their source codes, but just the final app. Since you demanded source code, you didn't get much answers.

Plus this is not guru or elance! It's a forum for programmers to discuss agk and most of us are from EU or US, and don't work for pence!!!
bjadams
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 22:22
Jim Hawkins, he didn't even buy AppGameKit himself yet. He wants a fully working demo so that his hired guns can develop & test applications using the demo, and then send him the sources, which he will copy & paste in his agk and release himself. So essentially TGC would have only sold 1 copy, whilst he could have 5 or 10 or more different people doing agk apps using the demo!
JimHawkins
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 00:16
@bjadams - Exactly.

-- Jim
baxslash
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 09:09
Nobody can sell a game on any platform without buying a full version of AGK. If fallen one is serious and looks into his plan enough he will already know that.

As far as I can tell he just wants code for cash. It's up to you whether you take him up on it or not. In the meantime I think it's time to leave this thread on topic and drop the flaming.

Merry Christmas everyone!

fallen one
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 17:33
Quote: "Fallen One, maybe many programmers don't want to sell their source codes, but just the final app. Since you demanded source code, you didn't get much answers.

Plus this is not guru or elance! It's a forum for programmers to discuss agk and most of us are from EU or US, and don't work for pence!!! "


I asked for the source code, not the 'emotive' demanded, how else am I going to edit it, I also said I don't pay pennies on the dollar, you assume all my coders are not from the west, that is not true, you also assume I pay them poorly, again not true, I have had coders make more than me on apps if they don't do well, you might understand this if you had actually released one. You also assume that if a coding board is used, they all get paid very little, again that's also not true. I am seeing a lot of wild trolling statements from people here, perhaps if some of you had actually made an app and released it, you may be in a position to actually have some experience to ground your comments in.


bjadams
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 19:48
Fallen One, I speak from experience, I am a 40 year old full-time software developer, not a student looking to start a career. project managers pay pennies. they want a complete game, complete with graphics and sound for 2000$! it's the companies and brands that pay well.
fallen one
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Posted: 26th Dec 2011 01:02 Edited at: 26th Dec 2011 01:08
It depends on how big a game is for 2k, otherwise one cant put it into perspective, one thing that annoys me with bidding sites, you put a bid range, and the coders don't bid on what the job is, but what your bid range is, I don't think they even read the brief, it doesn't matter what amount I put in, I could have a job that takes an hour, put 1000 usd maximum for the job, the bidder would not think one hour of my time is worth x amount, no, they would put 1000 usd, the the next bidder would undercut them by a little bit, and so on as time goes on, that really annoys me, bid what the job is worth to you for your time, how am I to know how long it takes and what your rates are, bid what its worth, not what you think you can rip out of the client.

You have bad project managers and good ones too, same as the people that are hired, a lot of the hired help are plain awful, perhaps it works both ways, Ive noticed a lot of project managers on hire sites don't even have a design doc, or even bother to work out some sort of algorithm for how the logic of the thing works, or even bother making any place holders, just vague instruction, clone this, make that. It would be nice if I could get away with that, I could have a design doc as thick as a telephone directory and Id still have to micro manage the thing, they can take more time answering questions than if I had just made the thing myself. Also cheapest isn't always best as some believe, the more expensive coder save time because they know what they are doing, their hourly rate may be more, but they work more efficiently, so it takes less time, and doesn't cost as much as you may of spent on a cheap coder that took forever, and asks millions of questions, and wants their hand holding every step of the way.


bjadams
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Posted: 26th Dec 2011 08:40
Fallen One, you wrote some wise words there!

I have had bad and good experiences with project managers on Windows and Android projects (not using AGK). Most of them want an Angry Birds clone for 2000$, including artwork and all audio! They have no idea that they need a game studio and not a programmer!

I have come to the conclusion, that for myself it's best to work with artists and not business-minded people. A team of 2, 1 doing the code, 1 doing the design & art, and then outsource the audio, once the game is 90% done. That has worked wonders.

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