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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DarkBASIC Professional - core commands quiz

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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 02:46
hi guys,

I've been teaching myself to produce more advanced tutorials, including quiz integration. Anyway, this is my first attempt I created it this afternoon. It includes 75 dark basic professional core command questions. It has an 80% pass requirement, and it will grade you at the end of it, so have fun!

http://www.darkprinciples.co.uk/quiz

Let me know how well you do! I got 97%!
zenassem
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 02:51 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 03:37
http://www.darkprinciples.co.uk/quiz

I'll let you know shortly...

* By the way, the title is missing the "DS" in "Commands"

* Problem with question on definition of UDT (no correct choice, if you look at how the help defines it)

* 2 Times I had questions where the text for answer A obscured the text for answer B making it impossible to read

* I did get the exact question twice (not a slightly different way of asking a question, but the same question)

* For the 10 element array did you include the 0 index? Can't tell if I got that wrong, as I had others I got wrong. It would be nice if you went displayed the questions that the user got wrong followed by the correct answer.
BTW what was the answer for fill-in-the blanks B____ "Hello Hello World!" ????


I would have missed 4 questions. I had no idea what CEIL and FLOOR were for. Never used them, and didn't know they existed lol. I missed others because I didn't realize that questions were timed at first, and I was looking for errors and typing.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 04:43
as zenassem mentioned, it can be a bit too vague at times, where the question doesn't full qualify what you're looking for.

One example would the Arrange this code styled questions, where the answer can be different depending upon the question..

Ie.

Arrange this code. ( i forget the actual example)



The problem is the question doesn't exactly state what the code should do. So it can arranged in various working orders.

1)



#2


#3


and so on


So the question really needs to pin point the exact functionality of the program.

Ie.

-> Arrange this code to displays10 values and wait a 1/4 of second each time.

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 04:56 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 04:58
@Kevin

For i = 0 to 9
Print i
wait 250
Next i

It's just a standard for, next squence. I think that's the only possible sequence you can generate that produces a useful result. You could reverse print and wait I suppose but I think most people would display, then make the program wait before repeating.

@zenassem

Thanks for the bug reports, I'll tidy those up tomorrow.

P.s. Which udt question, there's three.
zenassem
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 05:09 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 06:23
* There was at least one arrange the code question I thought was unclear.
IIRC it involved printing the count. Where count is initially initialized to 0. I wasn't sure if you had intentions of "count = 0" being printed and then the 1 (the 1 being on second iteration of the loop). I'm now assuming you never intended the 0 to print, thus incrementing count at the begining of the loop before the print command, not after, would provide the correct solution.

=====
* Another type of ambiguity is in this Sequence question


or



Both sequences will produce the same result, as the repeat command will always iterate through the loop at least once (regardless if the Spacekey is held or not). The only difference perhaps being a slight time variation of when check for the spacekey position takes place, but at the rate this code would execute it would be nearly impossible to distinguish a difference between the two examples for both the programmer and/or the end-user.

=====
* The UDT question was the definition of UDT. The closest correct answer was "User Data Type",, though the "true" definition of the acronym UDT in the help file is "User Defined Type".

From the help under Principles


=====
*** I got two versions of this question. One containing the correct answer, the other time the answers were what i have typed in the quote below.

* The right$ question may not be worded correctly.

Quote: "
The right$ command is used

A) Justify text to the left hand side.

B) to get the number of pixels along the left side of the screen.

C) to extract the leftmost set of characters from the string provided.
"


I believe the answer should read:

"to extract the rightmost set of characters from the string provided."

=======
The question related to what RGB stands for... The answer has the colors out of sequence Green Red Blue. Is this intentional? Is it suppose to be true or false?

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 06:15
Daniel TGC,

Quote: "I think that's the only possible sequence you can generate that produces a useful result."


No, there are multiple valid answers, since the question doesn't outline what precise functionality is required in the answer.

ie.)

-> Arrange this code to display 10 values, waiting 1/4 a second each time.

-> Arrange this code to display 10 values, then wait for a 1/4 of second before ending.

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 13:11
I cane up with these questions in an afternoon so I'll rewrite them today, and improve the overall experience.
Zipir
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 14:30
cool quiz tnx... my quiz is %80 accuracy
Jeff Miller
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 15:35
The question asking for data type names to be matched against a list of numerical ranges exited on me before I was finished. It just moved to the next question.
IanM
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 15:54
Lots of nits picked here...

All code - needs to specify what the resulting output should be and under what conditions.

The DIM command doesn't just create an array:
- it declares the array (at compile time)
- it allocates memory to the array (this counts as 'creates' in my book)
- it can resize an existing array

INKEY$ returns the character string of the last pressed key, as long as it is still held down, and as long as the key actually has a string representation.

Hold down the 'a', then press and release any other key.

Variable and data type name? Do you mean a field of a UDT?

Create a function named MyFunction and pass a string value called MyString$ into it?
I suspect you mean this:

rather than:

'Create a function named MyFunction that accepts a parameter named MyString$'

BREAK command question was repeated.

Multiple 'slots' in arrays? Did you mean dimensions?

An array with 10 slots? Does this question count the 'zeroeth' slot? ie, is it expecting DIM x(9) or DIM x(10)?

RGB - assuming strict ordering of the words...

CASE - if you've done the 'rearrange this code' for the select statement, then this question is redundant.

Match the following - use the word 'DWORD', not 'double word'.

Input command - matches 2 possibilities, as you can use the input statement with or without specifying a text prompt.

UDT - User-defined data type

MID$ - if we're sticking to core functions, then none of the answers are correct. This function simply extracts a single character.

One question about RIGHT$ has no correct answer - did you mean to use LEFT$?


RESTORE can be used with a label, and doesn't just restore to the first data statement.

RND doesn't randomise anything - it generates a random number in the range 0 to the number specified.

CASE DEFAULT - question asked twice in almost identical ways.

In addition
- this flash questionnaire would advance past the current question on occasions without me answering it - generally while I was switching back and forth between browser tabs.
- it's too big for my display - I had to scroll the screen to get things positioned so that I could answer the questions without further scrolling.
- gives a score, but absolutely no indication of what areas the user should concentrate on to improve their score the next time - quizzes without feedback are almost useless.

Is there a reason you picked flash rather than plain-old-simple html to do this?

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 18:37 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 18:42
Version 1.1 is now up, same link.

http://www.darkprinciples.co.uk/quiz

* Rewritten some of the questions
* Clarified the sequence questions
* Fixed the UDT error, it's now defined not type
* Repeating questions issue fixed
* Update graphics
* Added my Dulcet tones
* Added a little music to really really annoy people and delight others.
* Added review answers feature (it works on one laptop and but not another, unsure why yet).

I think I've covered most of the issues you've all brought up, thanks for the input.

I'm out of time now, so feel free to pick this new version apart and give me a fresh list to tackle next weed end!

Please note, I recommend a screen resolution of 1280 x 1024 to use this.

Also note there is a 90 second time limit for each question, so don't go switching between tabs!
zenassem
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 18:51
* On questions with a dropdown list, like match the data type ranges... I can no longer see the choices (A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H...) Until I blindly click.

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WLGfx
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 19:18 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 19:20
Good this! Broke my day up. And I only got 91%

Especially like the Dim and Undim commands and affecting lighting...

Although it didn't work very well in Chrome...

EDIT: The review page is stuck too.

Warning! May contain Nuts!
Quel
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 19:35
IanM, is this true, you can resize an array with DIM?

Won't you lose data doing it?

I've never heard of this one...


88% here on the quiz, i really wanted to know what i did miss, but i couldn't figure out how to navigate through the questions at the end.

-In.Dev.X: A unique heavy story based shoot'em ~35%
-CoreFleet: An underground commander unit based RTS ~15%
-TailsVSEggman: An Sonic themed RTS under development for idea presentation to Sega ~15%
Diggsey
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 01:01 Edited at: 18th Sep 2011 01:56
On the "correct uses of OR" question both B and C will work.

Also the problem with duplicates still exists, as do most of the things IanM brought up. DBPro's boolean type can store values from 0-255 not 0-1. The quiz skipped a question when I chose two values the same in a match up question by accident. And wrapvalue isn't limited to 0-359, it can return any value >= 0 and < 360 (such as 359.5) When choosing to review answers there's no way to move past the first question which makes it useless.

[b]
zenassem
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 07:18
The good news is I am learning things that I probably wouldn't of picked up on outside of this discussion. I really enjoy the quiz format. Had this just been a generic tutorial thread, I probably would of passed it by as something for beginners. I hope all of this makes for a better end product. So stick with it Daniel! I think you are brave to have chosen this course. I look foward to future quizzes.

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IanM
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 11:22
Quote: "Please note, I recommend a screen resolution of 1280 x 1024 to use this."

My laptop is a wide-screen 1366x768, and I'm sure I'm not alone in something like that.

Can you do something about the contrast between the text and the background?

I'm not sure I saw any corrections to the questions or answers, and the review didn't work either.

... and the code questions really need to be better specified:


or


Almost functionally the same, are both valid answers to the questions, but I suspect you'd only mark one of these as correct.

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 14:16
Version 1.15 uploaded, same link.

http://www.darkprinciples.co.uk/quiz

* Added a resolution selector, now supports the following.
** Netbook (1024x600).
** Laptop (1280x800).
** Desktop (1280x1024).
** And higher.
* Fixed letter drop down lists, no longer invisible.
* Fixed starting sequence bugs were lines were not showing.
* Fixed quiz review system by adding tool-bar to the bottom (ugly hack but it works).
* Fixed missing question number colour on some questions.

When viewing your answers, use the next button on the tool-bar. If you want to disable the music just hit the mute button.
IanM
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 15:21
Correct uses of AND - incorrectly labelled as 'Correct uses of OR', and only allows one selection.

These following items are probably due to the low-res selection I made:
None of the drop-down boxes contain anything, and the 'Hello World' text entry does not show what you have typed (if indeed it takes in what you type).

Review - Tool bar wasn't displayed.

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 15:33
Toolbar is displaying on the 4 machines I've tested it on here. Try a different browser, or clear your existing browsers cache and reload it.
Diggsey
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 19:01
Review is still broken. If the slider thing is what you mean by the toolbar, then it let's you jump to a question but the quiz loses all your answers.

[b]
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 19:50 Edited at: 18th Sep 2011 19:51
I found this quiz completely undoable - and it took ages to load what was in effect just a few simple questions. I gave up at this point:

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 19:53
Version 1.16 is up

* Added 10 new questions
* Review system tested and working well, (don't use slider, use the next button.)
* Colours fixed for drop down menu's all items now black instead of white.
* Missing word question fixed so text shows (I hope!)
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 19:55 Edited at: 18th Sep 2011 19:58
@Green Gandalf

No idea, I can't find a way of reproducing that issue. I've been uploading files a lot today, perhaps you took the quiz due in an update? If you can reproduce the error again, please let me know how you did so.

P.S. it may be down to a slow connection, the pre-loader should cache 100% before it runs, but some of my old settings sat at 33% instead, it's possible that it's only partly loading some items. Clearing the cache or using a different browser might do the trick.

I strongly recommend broadband connections only.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 20:11
OK, I'll try again.

Something as straightforward as this should work in the standard IE browser - which is what I use.

I use broadband - but it's not fast since I am several miles from the nearest exchange.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 20:20
I just found the use of English hard to understand, and by the time I figured out what the question was, my time ran out.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 20:26 Edited at: 18th Sep 2011 20:27
I had exactly the same problem - and there seem to be confusing hints/answers shown on screen. Here's an example:



The questions need to be clear with just one valid answer as Kevin and others have said already. Alternatively anticipate various possible correct answers - or does the quiz do that already? If so then it should tell the user that's the case.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 21:13
Tried again and worked through the whole quiz. Missed a couple of questions because I hit "submit" before choosing an answer () and guessed a few because I couldn't recall the command (). I got 86%. I think there's room for improvement.

I like the idea of this quiz but weirdly worded questions threw me. For example, is "Number fraction" meant to be a float? If not what was I supposed to enter? Were there supposed to be two options # and # in one of the questions? I didn't know which to choose - I guessed the first ("A" if I recall correctly). Things like this need to be ironed out.

I wasn't sure whether the grey box was meant to be a hint or a necessary part of the question. A couple of questions seemed to be completely unrelated to the grey text box and I had no idea what to enter. I believe one involved "inc x" and the other Z.
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 21:14
@paxton
If it was easy there would be no point!
Normally for a professional product I'd spend a few weeks drafting, proofing and testing questions. As these were largely written inside of an hour while I studied the technology. I'm just pleased that someone managed to get 80%

P.s. Well done Zipir!

@Gandalf
The hint displayed in that image specifies two ambiguous lines that could be rearranged in a different order while maintaining the programs functionality. As the technology I am using is currently limited to a single absolute answer, either due to my lack of knowledge or the lack of this engines functionality, there questions require a note to guide the user towards the correct answer. That question is a bit ambitious at my current skill level and I may be able to add additional solutions in the future. But for now, please just take it as a challenge!

So please treat it as a fun quiz, it's all I've intended from the start.

P.s. The question is above the sequence, "arrange in sequence a simple counting example"

It looks like you have the correct answer, except for the Inc command being on the wrong line. You almost had it! Hence the extra note.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 21:28
Quote: "except for the Inc command being on the wrong line"


Er, why? There's nothing in the question to say you should start counting from 1 rather than zero? [Perhaps I'm being deliberately obtuse here. ]

Quote: "A couple of questions seemed to be completely unrelated to the grey text box and I had no idea what to enter. I believe one involved "inc x" and the other Z."


Ignore that comment of mine - I've just had another look at the screenshot I was about to post and the question/answer was in fact clear.

Quote: "So please treat it as a fun quiz, it's all I've intended from the start."


It was fun - and I've got a few things to check out as a result.

Is the quiz review thing working? I could only check a few answers.
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 21:57 Edited at: 18th Sep 2011 21:59
Everyone knows zero isn't a real number, I refuse to acknowledge it's existence!
In reality I wrote all 85 questions yesterday very quickly, I've only just implemented the final 10 today. So the examples and questions are far from perfect.

The quiz review is a bit of a hack, it was added after the original design, I suspect to get it working correctly I'd need to redo the whole thing from the ground up. It appears to work on my system, it should tell you the questions you got right though the answers you got wrong is a little hap hazard at the moment.

When I do a serious attempt at this in the future I'll design it with all the current features included in this one in at the beginning. For now I've learned a lot! And for version 2.0 I'll spend at least a week writing, proofing and roping in a few beta testers before release. But as it is fun, and I am not getting paid it will need to take a backseat to my commercial products until next month.
WLGfx
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 22:37
I thought it was very different for something like this to "chance=rnd(million)" appear out of the blue like that.

Unfortunately and unlike DBPro, which is more compatible with peoples systems, it didn't seems to work on everyones system...

Maybe it should've been a DBPro program to download instead...

Warning! May contain Nuts!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 00:10 Edited at: 19th Sep 2011 00:13
Quote: "@paxton
If it was easy there would be no point! "


I meant I couldn't read it, it's like half foreign, half English. I only got to the second question, and I just couldn't understand the wording. If the point of the quiz was to understand Babelfish then maybe it would help me.

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 00:22
You don't understand bablefish you put them in your ear, every galaxy hitchhiker knows that, it's in the guide
Scraggle
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 14:09
It still contains errors that have already been pointed out - mid$ for example has no correct answer.
And as others have already mentioned, it seems to have been written by someone that has English as their second language because many of the questions make little or no sense.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 14:28
Quote: "mid$ for example has no correct answer"


Yes, I noticed that too but wasn't sure when I did the quiz. No idea whether or not I guessed the "correct" wrong answer.
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 19th Sep 2011 16:10 Edited at: 19th Sep 2011 16:13
Anyone who wants to write 85 questions and submit them to me is more than welcome to do so. I've already said several times, that due to time constructions, these were done very quickly.

Otherwise you'll need to wait next month when I have sufficient time to tackle this again.

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