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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Discussion| FPSC X9 Outdoor Levels and Less polygon tricks!

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soit
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 14:04 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 14:28
Maximizing The Ability of FPSC

I decided to create this thread based on the latest threads that talked about these things. Now im not here to teach/benifit in any other way from this but one way, learning. I have been very intrested in the Outdoor level tricks and less polygons being rendered, I would love to learn about these tricks, so I hope you can share them in this thread it could be useful to everyone in the FPSC X9 community!

Thanks for reading, here are some topics to get you started

- Invisible Segments
- Hallways between buildings
- Polygon count
- Maho's discovery of visoverlays


Feel free to share photos and videos on things you have created using these tricks just be sure not to spam them, the purpose of this thread is to teach not to advertise hehehe

Well, Thanks for reading![b][/b]

whatever
Northern
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 18:12
Hello Soit,

Might you please, specify what do you wanna know about every subject precisely, so it might be easier for others to try to answer your doubts.

Cheers.

Northern.
Psycho Psam
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 18:21 Edited at: 17th Sep 2011 18:23
Terrains:
One thing I've discovered when doing an outdoor environment, is that if you create a terrain, your player can walk over it, but enemies cannot. You need to paste some floor down, and then raise your terrain slightly above the floor so the enemies can stand there.

Invisibile Walls:
These are just segments with a dds (texture) that is 100% transparent. By putting invisible walls in large open areas, such as inside the middle of a forrest clump that the player cannot access, or under a hill, or inside a building it forces the engine to occlude segments behind it. Used properly it can reduce the polygon count in large outdoor environments. Also it will block the enemy so put them inside and around hills so the enemy wont walk through the terrain.

Pasting trees
When you have a tree entity in your hand, hover over the terrain where you want to place it and hit the Enter key. This will snap it to the terrain. Be careful though, as if the terrain is too high it will move you up one level - so be conscious of that.
soit
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 18:21
thanks for the feedback and to be more specific

well what are Invisible segments, why use them, what is maho's discovery about the visoverlay? i wanna know how to make my polygon count as high as possible and keep a high FPS...

whatever
Wraith Staff
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 19:33
Do shaders work correctly for entities behind invisible walls?

New sig in the process of being made
Psycho Psam
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 10:24 Edited at: 18th Sep 2011 10:25
To test shaders via culling, do this room as shown. The room is separated by segments with 100% transparent textures on them. As you can see in the preview the room is culled but not the entity. I would suspect the shaders are not culled either, but I couldn't test as I don't have shaders on this character.


Bestorio
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 20:03
You can do GREAT outdoor scenery with basic FPSC models (model packs also) example:


Slayer267
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 20:06
Yay! I discussion on how i can save polygons!

When I make an outdoor level it usually has 250k polys or more!

EPIC HELP! EPIC PWNAGE

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rolfy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 21:05 Edited at: 27th Nov 2011 21:19
Quote: "if you create a terrain, your player can walk over it, but enemies cannot."


For FPSC X9
Full 40x40 grid terrain a total of 3200 polys, 4096x4096 texture, full character and enemy collision. You cant get more optimised than this.



For FPSC X9 and X10
Full 40x40 grid terrain and roads a total of 9600 poly's, various textures 1024x1024 to 2048x2048, full character and enemy collision.
For x10 you cant get more optimised than this unless your willing to do without enemy collision


Soviet176
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 22:00
Do I see new terrain Rolfy!?

Bugsy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 22:50
It's best to optimize so that your outdoor levels are under 120k polys at all times. this is because enemies will slow it down if there's more than that. here are some screens I have, and examples of the techniques I use in my outdoor designs.

imageflock.com/img/1320803448.jpg[/img]

1. note that most buildings are tall and basic cubes. this is very helpful in keeping polycount down, and creating scenery. to subtract from the level's boxyness, some of them have illuminationmaps to create more detail.

2. most detail is up high, using the sky as a backdrop, it looks nice.

3. the larger square buildings hate AI, so I used segments as their bases, and made sure to put entrances, as they create a more convincing atmosphere. never do I lapse into putting random crates in the road and whatnot.

4. contrasted lighting crowds the player's eye and effectively double's the look of detail. another example of contrasted lighting effectively creating detail-



5. I use smaller buildings and billboards behind the stuff the player can walk to. this creates a forced perspective effect.

max polycount in this scene- 130k with enemies spawned and active.


==================

imageflock.com/img/1312261172.jpg[/img]

some tips on another technique, fake terrain.

1. use shadowy ground textures with lots of differing colour. it looks slightly hilly.

2. note that this level appears to slope down from left to right? it's because of the general path through the map, as well as the placement of the buildings. the ground is flat to save polys, but the player goes from the roofs to the ground, and in that it gives the false sense of going down a mountain. in reality I just move things lower as they go, but the ground only descends one segment.

the polycount in that screen is (I'm not sure not being near fpsc but I remember it being like 110k with enemies)

Nickydude
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 22:59
Quote: "note that this level appears to slope down from left to right? it's because of the general path through the map, as well as the placement of the buildings. the ground is flat to save polys, but the player goes from the roofs to the ground, and in that it gives the false sense of going down a mountain. in reality I just move things lower as they go, but the ground only descends one segment."


That's an excellent idea! Putting entities discreetly between levels so the player is simply not 'jumping down' to the next level, I'd never have though of that!

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
TheDesertEagle
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 23:04
What about this - Making basic buildings with segments?

Joey-May god have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
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rolfy
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Posted: 28th Nov 2011 00:17 Edited at: 28th Nov 2011 00:37

Comp specs for the above screenshot:
1603Mh AMD
1.024 GB Ram
Nvidea GO6100 integrated graphics
Can still get 43fps in test game.



Note the house is just a facade you would never see the back in game. A lot more than seen here was in final level and had plenty room to spare. Optimise the level first and foremost dont try to fix it after you build it.
The total poly count for the entire level is 30494 poly's. Thats probably the maximum I would go for to allow for characters and gameplay elements in a scene like this, I prefer to use a low end comp then you wont get complaints about lag or loading times.

Oh! and again the terrain has full enemy collision.

Slayer267
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Posted: 28th Nov 2011 00:26
I'm like super highend lol I have a gtx560

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rolfy
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Posted: 28th Nov 2011 00:34 Edited at: 28th Nov 2011 00:35
Theres no point creating a game only a select few can play


Keep the tricks for appearance and the general design for gameplay.

Bugsy
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Posted: 29th Nov 2011 01:32
@ rolfy-
excellent work! as a fellow 3ds max user I'd love to figure out how to reap the benefits of making my maps in 3dsmax. I would, however, like to ask a few things-

1. darkAI- does the off angle terrain work with dark AI, who I thought could only move up and down 1 segment at a time and only if there were waypoints

2. what does the player do in that map, exactly? is that only one part of the map, or is that the sort of area where the player has to "hold out" against hordes of enemies or something? I'm only asking because it looks very small.

3. is the lighting all baked into the map in 3ds max, or is it partially done in fpsc, because it looks more of a cool pallate in fpsc.


@thedeserteagle-
don't make buildings out of segments. I'd suggest making as little as possible out of segments, and using flat plains to serve as building walls. surrounding where the player can go inside.

rolfy
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Posted: 29th Nov 2011 02:10
Quote: "1. darkAI- does the off angle terrain work with dark AI, who I thought could only move up and down 1 segment at a time and only if there were waypoints"

DAI does have problems with following terrain contours, standard AI has no such issues and works just fine, in testing I would find that sometimes DAI characters worked fine then they wouldnt.

Quote: "2. what does the player do in that map, exactly? is that only one part of the map, or is that the sort of area where the player has to "hold out" against hordes of enemies or something? I'm only asking because it looks very small."

That particular level is a puzzle area really, it is a smaller 20x20 area which hass a lot of detail in the graveyard area where you have to find the entrance to an underground passage beneath the crypt so theres more to it than shown in screenshots.

Quote: "3. is the lighting all baked into the map in 3ds max, or is it partially done in fpsc, because it looks more of a cool pallate in fpsc."

Yes ALL lighting is baked in Max though I do like to add lights with much lowers settings in FPSC which adds to the bake and means enemies and weapons also use a little lighting when in appropriate areas. If you dont allow for somelighting in the game itself then you wont fit dynamic entitys into the scene properly, to overcome any lighting from FPSC on baked shadows I use full white illumination maps.

Bugsy
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Posted: 29th Nov 2011 02:33
Quote: "DAI does have problems with following terrain contours, standard AI has no such issues and works just fine, in testing I would find that sometimes DAI characters worked fine then they wouldnt."


yeah, and honestly even normal AI colliding is no small feat. I feel your pain brother.

Quote: "That particular level is a puzzle area really, it is a smaller 20x20 area which hass a lot of detail in the graveyard area where you have to find the entrance to an underground passage beneath the crypt so theres more to it than shown in screenshots"


awesome!

Quote: "Yes ALL lighting is baked in Max though I do like to add lights with much lowers settings in FPSC which adds to the bake and means enemies and weapons also use a little lighting when in appropriate areas. If you dont allow for somelighting in the game itself then you wont fit dynamic entitys into the scene properly, to overcome any lighting from FPSC on baked shadows I use full white illumination maps."


good idea! I must say the map looks very nice
also your game with xplosys and the foxes looks awesome

rolfy
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Posted: 29th Nov 2011 02:41 Edited at: 29th Nov 2011 02:41
Quote: "yeah, and honestly even normal AI colliding is no small feat. I feel your pain brother."

It isnt an easy task its tedious and time consuming more than anything else but if done properly standard enemy AI has no problems at all following terrain contours.
The best solution is to use standard and keep DAI for flat surfaces.
I did mention it to Lee and he was going to look at it but reckon we both just forgot about it, would be nice to see DAI handle it though.

Quote: "also your game with xplosys and the foxes looks awesome"

Thank you so much Mr Bugsy

Bugsy
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Posted: 29th Nov 2011 03:00
yeah it would be, as it would add a level of dimension to the battlefield.

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