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Work in Progress / K96 Walking Vehicle Control Testing

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Nateholio
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Posted: 9th Nov 2011 08:51
An uneventful video of testing the torso left/right, arm up/down, pilot head, external camera, and targeting controls for the walking vehicle class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2h7RFBrYgk

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Matty H
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Posted: 9th Nov 2011 11:06 Edited at: 9th Nov 2011 11:08


Looks pretty good, you should give us a bit more info, are you using dbPro, GDK etc.

Quel
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Posted: 9th Nov 2011 11:46
How do you turn youtube link into this Matty H? I tried everything and it is just always simple text instead of an image / youtube video player.

As for the video: Haven't you noticed that the window glass loves being elsewhere than it is supposed to be? Also, i was expecting at least a couple frames of an external view of the robot walking...

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 9th Nov 2011 16:56 Edited at: 9th Nov 2011 16:57
@Quel, [ youtube]youtubecode[/youtube ]
(remove the spaces)

also looks good An external view would be cool as well though

Dr Tank
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Posted: 10th Nov 2011 02:40
This looks pretty cool. How much fun it is will depend on what it feels like to stomp around and shoot guns at stuff.
Nateholio
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Posted: 10th Nov 2011 08:56 Edited at: 10th Nov 2011 10:16
Thanks for the comments/suggestions/compliments. Further suggestions are more than welcome!

@Matty and Blobby: thanks for the proper video posting and tip on how to do it.

The engine is being written in DBP. The game is slated to be more of a combat simulation. Unlike other games with big...um...robots...this one does not center solely around them.
They can be taken down by tanks, aircraft, &&c; which you can also pilot. The "robots" are called ATHMAVs, short for All-Terrain Highly Mobile Artillery Vehicle (a term stemming from their original use), or Mavs for short. This particular model, a BMN-1A Bowman, is specifically designed for anti-aircraft use (hence the large AWACS type radome), and the two-seat version (BMN-2A) for C4I coordination. Eventually, one goal is to have two players in a single two-seat Mav with differing responsibilities.

@Quel: yep the cockpit glass just hangs around...it's been moved there to keep it from blocking the view inside the cockpit until I get around to implementing proper glass (admittedly easy to implement). As for walking, the model does have a walking animation, and it's pretty neat to see them walk. However, being primarily a coder and modeler (from an engineering perspective), I'm not exactly knowledgeable at animating transitions between keyframe sets. Add to that, I can't decide on whether I should implement animations or kinematics for walking. Animations are "quick and easy" for a few models, but not for a bunch of them. I'd like to do kinematics/inverse kinematics so the legs will conform to terrain. Kinematics would involve mostly setting joint min/max rotations, so it's faster to "rig" a bunch of models. What would you suggest, if anything?

@Dr Tank: it can be fun, but as said before, these things aren't necessarily the kings of a battlefield. A tank that will be included in the demo can easily take a Mav down from long-range, so it wouldn't be a wise idea to pick a fight with it at longer ranges.

If y'all would like to read some fiction involving the K96 "universe", you can visit:
http://heliosfiction.blogspot.com/2011/08/helios-corrosion-from-within.html

Note: Changed blog text color so it's not a strain on the eyes.

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Quel
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Posted: 10th Nov 2011 09:43
Absolutely kinematics is the way to go pal. Half a year earlier i tried something, but i've put that RTS project on hold so i didn't finish it. Basically what I was doing there was something quite simple: every limb in the leg has a rotation ratio how fast each should rotate as i change the Leg_Bend# variable from 0 to 100%, this way the leg just "opens & closes" in a straight manner, making it able to just be pointed at a target coordinate on the ground. And i had a half complete engine for determining these target points around the robot unit, each of them having tresholds for staying there as long as the robot doesn't go to much away from them, because then they get new values, and the legs point there in an interpolated way, while having the Leg_Bend# variable getting a value more and more 0 and its rotation arrives to 50%, and getting 100 again as the rotation arrives to a 100%.

As i imagine this would have worked nicely, but i haven't finished it yet and don't know when i can get back to it.

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Nateholio
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Posted: 10th Nov 2011 10:07
I figured IK is the way to do things. One problem I've thought about though is that legs have differing designs. That's the easy problem to solve though, the bigger one seems to be how to determine where on the ground your foot should be placed. I've done real robotics and it's pretty easy to have an arm go where you want it to because you always have some target, even if it's just the arm's "at rest" position.
As for your Leg_Bend# solution, it sounds like it would work. However, I'm thinking there has to be a general formula (not necessarily a ratio) which describes the proper angle of each leg joint at a specific interval for a given leg design. The leg as a whole has a specific motion, and yet each joint also has it's specific movement. I apologize, but I'm gonna have to revert to my native EE thinking processes here to try and explain the idea. Perhaps it's a variation of a sine wave, with each joint having a differing frequency and amplitude? And so if you were to put all the waveforms through a "mixer" or "modulator", you'd end up with something that looks like an FM (or AM depending on how you mixed) waveform with intelligence riding over it. This "waveform" would be your "formula" to describe movements. Reverse the process and you get the data for each joint. Now you tweak the angles to suit the terrain.
I really am clueless on this one, it's just a stab in the dark....

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Posted: 15th Nov 2011 21:26
I really like the look of this. I like the idea of the MAVs being just another peice on the battlefield, the idea of trying to take one down with a tank sounds like fun.

As for using kinematics/inverse kinematics for the walking, there's a post by hmm on the code snippets board.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167196&b=6

This might give you some ideas.
Nateholio
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Posted: 17th Nov 2011 07:53
Thanks for the link 29! I looked briefly at the code and was wondering how you determined where the target is to place the foot (not the Y position, but the X/Z position). That's the problem I've been trying to figure out...picking a target pos'n without a target. From the brief once-over I did, it seemed like you were using leg length to do so. Is this correct? I'll have a closer look at it when I'm finished moving code for other game aspects into their own functions.

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 26th Dec 2011 22:41
@Nateholio

nice work

any chance of seeing a compiled version of this

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Posted: 11th Jan 2012 00:46
Completetly forgot that I posted on this thread.

...was wondering how you determined where the target is to place the foot...

I didn't write the code and haven't gone through it properly so couldn't really say how it was done.

I'm not entirely sure how I would go about this myself but I have this feeling that it'll involve so much ray casting and decision making just to figure out where to place a foot that it'll probably kill the frame rate.

I'd probably simplify things by doing a rough check to see if the ground is generally navigable (i.e. not too steep or undulating or walls are low enough to step over and son) and then allow the mecha to walk across it. You could then just get the x and z coordinates of the foot (which, judging by you video) should be too difficult as you can just get the limb position of the foot and then ray cast down to determine ground height under the foot.

The other thing you'd have to consider is getting the weight distribution to look right otherwise it's going to look odd and all the effort would be wasted. I.e. if the mecha is walking up a slope you'd expect it to lean forward or stepping onto a wall or bolder etc.

If I have some more helpful ideas I'll let you know. It's quite an interesting problem so I might give it some more thought but no promises.
Sigh
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 02:06 Edited at: 17th Apr 2012 02:11
Just started working on the Engine again....

@Resourceful
That is a compiled version. Or did you mean the source code running it all?

@29
Ah, I was hoping you wrote the code. However, it's a good link nonetheless. Weight distro is a problem, but I think I need to figure out basic walking first. As for ground navigability, there would be a few criteria for it, but the one I think would affect IK the most would be ground slope...too steep and the foot *should* slip.

If I can get the new video uploaded I'll post a link here. Nothing spectacular, just testing lasers. Walking still hasn't been attacked yet.

Keep your Hope & Change to yourself, I choose Liberty! Stop by for a chat! [IXE]Nateholio on irc.maxgaming.net:6667 #GarageGames
Sigh
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 02:19 Edited at: 17th Apr 2012 02:26
Hmph, tried the above code to embed the youtube video, but it didn't work....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTbcso7tixE[/youtube]

Keep your Hope & Change to yourself, I choose Liberty! Stop by for a chat! [IXE]Nateholio on irc.maxgaming.net:6667 #GarageGames
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 04:46
@Sigh

I would like to see the working copy as it is
to test on my new windows 7 maxed out laptop

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Nateholio
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 05:04
@Resourceful

Ah ok. Let me finish trying to get the autoupdater to work. I'll have something posted by a link here by mid-tomorrow (Pacific Time) at the latest.

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 05:41
@Nateholio

I've waited this long so no problem
you get it dun when you get it dun ;o)

so please take your time

all good things in there own time

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Nateholio
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 07:32
Sine I don't want to start a third WIP thread on this project....

Items recently implemented:
Scripting framework
Database framework
Weapon emitter point extraction
Laser/plasma cannon spawn/align/scale/despawn

Some short-term goals:
Redo terrain loading code
Complete pulse/beam laser timer/control code
Complete autoupdate functions

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Nateholio
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Posted: 18th Apr 2012 00:34 Edited at: 20th Jun 2012 00:26
Link to the demo package....

EDIT: Engine hasn't been updated in quite a while so the download has been disabled.

Extract to your C:\

I don't know if it'll work without throwing errors...haven't tested it on a computer that doesn't have all the models/textures loaded onto it already.

One thing you may want to do is create a folder within the K96 directory named "Console Logs". Thats where the engine writes error and some status messages.

If you want to test your computer's ability to run the thing, you can load more mav models by modifying the script located in the Script directory.

Almost forgot...you'll figure it out when you read the MOTD

Members of the TGC Forum are authorized to access this program and access to the media and server by using only the program contained within the ZIP file; for informational purposes only.

Enjoy!

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 21st Apr 2012 07:38 Edited at: 21st Apr 2012 07:42
@Nateholio

I know I took a bit longer to get back to you but
things look like they are working

it says it needs to update and it connects
dose it thing but then it quits out and says
it can not find a image at line 517

attached is the error log which is generated

every thing is being loaded from K96 folder and subfolders

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Nateholio
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 01:37
No problem. I've been wrestling with getting this thing to work on the computers of the people who are involved in this project. I keep forgetting to comment out code I put in the initialization and main loop for debugging/new feature testing. That's what happened here, the engine was trying to find a HUD file. This is why I'm trying to figure out the FTP commands...to get some form of simple autoupdate function to work.

Attached is the updated test demo. If it throws an FTP error just ignore it.

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 01:45
thanks

I would be glad to ignore any error but the program has other idea's lol

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Nateholio
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 01:48 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2012 01:51
Ah jeez...again? What kind of silly thing is it doing now? My apologies!

Edit: Ahh...let me guess, image error somewhere around line 479?
No wait, that'd just throw an error into the console log

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 01:53
@Nateholio

it works but since my system is so maxed out
the keys for doing different thing to the unit movie too quickly

windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
System Manufacturer: ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
System Model: G74Sx
cpu's quade core with 4 cpu's emulated for a total of 8 cpu's
Memory: 8192MB RAM

Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce GTX 560M
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Display Memory: 4062 MB
Dedicated Memory: 2014 MB
Shared Memory: 2047 MB
Current Mode: 1600 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)

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Nateholio
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 01:58
Ah...thanks for pointing that out. Haven't implemented timer based movement yet. I think I'll just slap a 30fps sync on it and upload again.

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 02:04
I was getting about 1080 fps to 1100 fps inside
and out side 1150 fps to 1200 fps

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Nateholio
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 02:16
Did the 30fps sync work? I attached it to my last post.

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Dr Tank
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 02:32 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2012 02:32
I opened first in sandbox mode (windows 7) - it loaded a camera view that seemed to be inside something, and no buttons did anything (including escape)

Then i tried opening normally, buttons did stuff. However, / seemed to do nothing and m seemed to be buggy - the view went a bit crazy (seems like rapidly changing position/rotation), then camera lost sight of the machine.

I could see no terrain - just 2 robots.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 02:32
it did come down the 30fps

I kinda like the fps I was getting before lol

all I need was the turn speeds for which ever part to be slower moving

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Nateholio
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 02:44
@Dr Tank
Hmmmm...wierd. I'm using Vista and XP still, preferrably XP (or even Win 95). I wonder if there could be something different between the OSs that causes those problems. Its sounding like the program couldn't find the camera mounts on the Mav (robot). M and / are a bit "buggy" ATM; they do what they're supposed to but I haven't gotten around to a smooth transition movement yet for those functions.

@Resourceful
Heh, the higher FPS. Well, it's rigged to run at 60 IIRC (which I just remembered when you mentioned the higher FPS). Either way, people probably won't care for the speeds anyway when they're used to arcade-style where you can run backwards/strafe at the speed of lightning (which I find absurd). This will be more of a combat sim than arcade style.


Anywho, thanks for the feedback! I've got some house cleaning to do but I'll work on trying to figure out these problems when I'm done. Cheers!

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 04:55
@Nateholio

I can understand why people would be happy with that speed

with all the additions I bought I can do a lot
now if I can just get it all worked out

one of the addition permits me to created up to 50,000 objects
but it takes it a long time to generate that number of objects

I've got to look at way to get it to install 4 objects at a time
then I can just go much sooner

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Nateholio
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Posted: 8th May 2012 09:13
Moving all the code for this project from a single file under the old editor to includes under the new editor has been a PITA. Slow progress but hopefully I'll have something else posted soon.

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 8th May 2012 20:03
@Nateholio

I thought it was in several files loaded up under the main file ?

I would think it would have things easier look at and find problems

ok I will wait for your efforts ;O)

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 9th May 2012 16:58
@Sigh - I've had to remove your Avatar, it was forcing a login prompt every time it was loaded. I think you'll have to fix that on your server.

Also, why do you switch in between the account "sigh" and the account "Nateholio"?

Cheers,
BiggAdd

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 9th May 2012 17:11
@BiggAdd

I was wondering why that keept showing up ;oP

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Nateholio
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Posted: 9th May 2012 20:32
@BiggAdd:

That's cool.

I honestly don't remember why I've got two accounts. One has all the licenses I've purchased and the other has (or used to) all my posts.

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BiggAdd
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Quote: "I honestly don't remember why I've got two accounts. One has all the licenses I've purchased and the other has (or used to) all my posts."


That's fine. I'm in the same boat. Have a separate account for my purchases. Make sure you stick to the same account in future for posting, as people could get confused!

Cheers,
BiggAdd

Nateholio
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Posted: 16th Jun 2012 09:01
Short clip testing character control, mount/dismount, and Mav (the big machines) walking. Progress is slow and uneventful, but it is progress



The character is from FPSC Model Pack 53.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Jun 2012 22:50
My man is facing backwards for some reason, so I have to hold down 'W' continuously to face forwards. I have no scenery, just blackness, and a bright orange robot in front of me.


Anyway, this game could be good like Robo Jox. I would prefer the walking to be like human walking with Up/Down movement.

Nateholio
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Posted: 20th Jun 2012 00:25 Edited at: 20th Jun 2012 00:28
@Pincho
The engine download hasn't been update in a while. Thanks for trying it out though!

As for human-esque walking for the machines (Mavs)...we aren't going for the Japanese feel of Robotech and similar properties. Mavs are basically just walking tanks - they have better mobility than tanks and sometimes better maneuverability. However, we may allow some Mavs to crouch.

EDIT:
Pincho, did you mean up/down like bobbing as they walk?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 20th Jun 2012 00:30 Edited at: 20th Jun 2012 00:30
Yeah bobbing. If it feels like a Tank the game resembles a tank. The bobbing is more like a new type of game. Anyway, makes aiming more fun.

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