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Geek Culture / RAM Upgrade

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Isocadia
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 10:48
So, because I'm starting to find my 4GB of RAM a little bit on the low side, I'm thinking about upgrading to 16GB ( 4x4GB ), but now that I'm browsing the internet looking for which sticks to get, I find myself kinda lost. There are so many different packages of RAM to buy, all of them with the same specs, that I'm starting to wonder if there's actually any difference between them.

So, what kind of RAM do you recommend, cause I'm currently thinking about getting the Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 ( 4x4 1333mhz CL9 XMS3 ).

Thanks in advance,

Isocadia
DevilLiger
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 11:16
there's a quality difference between brands.

MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 11:18
Might help that you are looking for DDR3. In case some people can not figure that out from the 1333 speed spec



might help also if you informed your buying location for others to see your options.

Also your location might assist in more local options...

But yeah get 16GB... ignore anybody that says its too much.. just because they have never had 8GB lol...

DevilLiger
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 11:24
make sure your computer supports 16gb memory too.

MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 12:03 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 12:03
How couldd I forget that one... oh I just woke up lol nice one DL

Isocadia
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 13:59
My computer supports 16 GB RAM, the biggest thing I'm wondering about is, corsair has alot of different versions of RAM ( XMS3, Dominator, Vengence ), is there big difference between these versions?
MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 14:26
each has specific purposes... like overclocking... I believe XMS is the budget range... dominator for gamers and vengeance for extreme enthusiasts... in respective order... basically... ones FAST and it goes up to FASTER... and then EVEN FASTER... and then things like OVERCLOCKING come into play...

So basically... Performance variations.

Read their website descriptions for more detail...

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 15:02 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 15:06
I still don't understand how people can get through so much RAM, I'm still on 2GB, although that's on a heavily optimized rig I only use for gaming, so I don't do any multitasking.

Though at work I have a double-height taskbar full to the brim with running programs and never use more than 1.5GB. Hey ho.


The main difference between brands is their warranty. Crucial memory comes with a very good warranty, as does Corsair. Although I have had a faulty stick of Corsair and so has a friend, so your millage may vary. What sort of stuff do you intend to do with your rig? I'd hazard a guess at Photoshop / Modeling?

Get some 1333MHz RAM or some 1600MHz. What CPU do you have? If your FSB on the CPU can't keep up with the memory then there's no point splashing out on anything fast unless you upgrade your CPU as well.

There are subtleties in RAM of the same frequencies, or example they might have different timings, or use buffering etc. Unless you plan on overclocking your RAM (don't) then this is of no concern to you, so whatever one you pick doesn't really matter. If the work you do is critical then I would recommend getting some buffered ECC RAM, though this will come at a premium.

Don't be fooled for buying low-spec DDR3 that are more expensive than others just because they have heatspreaders on, they're just a marketing ploy. In fact I've seen some where the heatspreaders were made from plastic. Hmm. You don't need heatspreaders on your RAM unless you're really pushing it.

Isocadia
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 15:08
I have an AMD PhenomII x4 955, and what I intend to do isn't anything more that some basic 3D modeling, photoshop, running a minecraft server and gaming.

Anyway, think I'll go with the XMS or Dominator, I like the way the Dominator sticks looks
The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 15:49
Ahh, the infamous Minecraft, no wonder 4GB is feeling a little slow!


From what I remember there's some nice Gskill Ripjaw memory which is fairly cheap. If you're from the UK then Ebuyer is selling 4GB sticks of it for £20 a stick >>> http://www.ebuyer.com/226283-g-skill-4gb-ddr3-1333mhz-ripjaws-memory-module-cl9-9-9-9-24-1-5v-f3-10666cl9s-4gbrl?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products

Isocadia
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 16:56
Here they're selling 4 GB for 15 euro's Slightly cheaper. But I'm from holland so I'll have to figure out what's for sale here. And since I'm getting the feeling I live in the most computer retarded city in Holland, I think I'll need to move myself a bit to get the sticks
old_School
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:20
Tiger direct is a good place to purchase computer products/parts. As for good mem brand Kingston is the best but it's a bit more money. Overall brand can determine performance as well. I had two sticks of kingston DDR2 in this machine then upgraded to 4 sticks using a off brand name. It has more memory but runs worse, so brand can effect the performance.
Isocadia
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 19:41
Kingston better than Corsair? I always thought corsair had the best RAM.
MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 20:10
Kingston. was technology leader for quite some time... I still feel the same...

Isocadia
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 23:26 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 23:38
So, I've spotted this ram pack ( Kingston KHX1333C7AD3K2 2x4GB DDR3 1333mhz CL7 1.65V ) being sold at my computer store. Only problem is that I'm worried about that 1.65V, since almost every kit I see runs at 1.5. Is it safe to let 1.65V run with this rig:

Asus M4N98TD EVO
AMD Phenom II x4 955 ( 3.2 GHz )

I don't want to buy it if it's incompatible (duh xD), and since I don't know where the bottleneck/limitation for RAM voltage lies, I don't know where to search for the answer.

Thanks in advance,

Isocadia
MrValentine
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 00:08
Look for min 1.85v

Isocadia
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 08:17
Uhm, before I misinterpret that sentence. Are you saying I should look for a minimum of 1.85V, or that it should be less than 1.85V?
MrValentine
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 12:25 Edited at: 27th Nov 2011 12:29
Minimum 1.85v... 2.0v is a good range


EDIT

the reason I say that is because some boards overlook the memory t to boost performance and in order to achieve that... you guessed it. . buzz it juices your RAM up . If you want an Idea of your system voltages try MONitor from the guys that make CPU-Z... I do not want to link to it in case its against the UP... but its free software... although they do have paid versions...

Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 27th Nov 2011 17:44
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5688415&Sku=P33-6110

That is some great RAM! I would really recommend!

Isocadia
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:36
One question:

Kingston: 2x4GB 1333 CL 7-7-7-20 1.6V KHX1333C7AD3K2/8G (Normal sticks)
Corsair: 2x4GB 1600 CL 7-8-7-20 1.65V CMP4GX3M2C1600C7 (Dominator)

What does that 8 mean in the Corsair kit, how does it affect performance and which one do you recommend? ( Guess that was actually 3 questions ;P )
bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:43
the 7-8-7 is the timing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_timings

The timing on the corsair is slightly worse, but the fsb speed is much higher. You're better off getting the corsair, becuase it runs at a higher speed all around. If you downclock the ram, you can also probably lower the timings as well. I would only downclock the ram and play with the timings if your processor doesn't actually run at a 1600fsb or better.

In general, you want your ram to have a 1:1 fsb with the processor for best performance. The ram can be multiplied to a higher clock rate but the perfomance gain is negligible.


Isocadia
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 18:53 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 19:04
Well, I'm using the Phenom II x4 955 which I believe supports 1600MHz, and since it's only 10 euro's more, I guess I'll go with the Corsair pair.

But what I wanted to know exactly was what is the function that is slower ( 8 ) on the corsair and faster on the kingston ( 7 ). I've googled it but I'm not gettin any wiser that knowing it's the delay between when the command enters the RAM module and the data is send away... Probably not what it is

Edit: Also, I know mixing kits can give problems, but is buying this kit twice considered mixing? I hope I don't get any problem if I use this kit twice to get 16GB.
bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 19:13
You want matching sets of ram, so buying two of the same kit is good.

That second number is the TRCD:
Quote: "Row Address to Column Address Delay TRCD The number of clock cycles required between the opening of a row of memory and accessing columns within it. The time to read the first bit of memory from a DRAM without an active row is TRCD + CL. "



Isocadia
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 09:35 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2011 14:41
Ok, I'm getting slightly pissed here. Basicly the RAM sticks I was gonna buy have just been removed from stock, so now I need to find a new pair. Anyway, what do you suggest between these variations:

1333 CL7 57 Euro (2x4GB) Kingston KHX1333C7AD3K2/8G
1600 CL7 69 Euro (2x4GB) Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C7R
1600 CL8 57 Euro (2x4GB) Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8

So basicly, is it better to go 1600MHz CL8 than 1333 CL7, and is having 1600MHz CL7 worth the 10 euro's difference ( I'd say it is ).

This will be my final question ( I hope ). Thanks for all the help

Edit: I've been reading some more and I've found out on the asus website that the M4N98TD Evo only supports 1066/1333/2000(O.C.). Does this mean that 1600MHz memory will be auto set to 1333? And if I want to get it to run on 1600MHz, what settings need to be changed?
MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 15:10
Gef the fastest stick... the overhead will be good when you upgrade... basically 2000 will run at 1333 if you follow my meaning...

bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 16:07
Basically, the max speed your motherboard supports is 1333 but you can overclock it up to 2000. I'd recommend not overclocking unless you know what you're doing. I'd get the 1600 ram since it's the same price, and lower the timings manually until you get it stable. I'd probably save the extra 10 euros, it wouldn't be needed in this particular case.

Since you'll be downclocking, it's very likely you'll be able to get the timings lower than stock.


Isocadia
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 17:32
@Jerico: So what I understand from your post is that my motherboard only supports 1333, but I can overclock to 2000. But what I should do is buy the 1600Mhz CL8 kit, set it to 1333 and lower the timings till it's stable ( how do you check this? Just use your PC and see if stuff goes wrong? ). Does that mean I could also buy the 1600MHz CL7 kit, and lower those timings even more?

Also, if I can only overclock higher that 1333, does that mean that my 1600MHz kit which I set to 1600MHz in the BIOS ( just changed this, nothing else ) is currently overclocked?
bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 19:39
Right, the ram itself is overclocked. This could cause the northbridge to get too hot and burn out unless you have a nice heatsink on it. On new processors I believe the northbridge is implemented in the processor.

Quote: "( how do you check this? Just use your PC and see if stuff goes wrong? ). Does that mean I could also buy the 1600MHz CL7 kit, and lower those timings even more?"


Yep. You can also check it with memtest, which also comes standard on Ubuntu boot cds which is handy to also have around, if you don't want to waste a CD on just memtest.


Isocadia
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Posted: 4th Dec 2011 08:37 Edited at: 4th Dec 2011 09:28
Then I guess I'll need to set my RAM back to 1333MHz. Does that mean that on the current kit I can also try to lower the timings ( since it was sold as a 1600MHz kit )?

Edit:Actually, it has been running over a year without trouble on 1600MHz and there's a pretty big copper heatsink+fin combination running under the CPU socket, is the northbridge located there?

About the RAM, I've convinced my father that I want one of the corsairs (1600MHz CL8 or CL7 ) so now it's up to him do decide which one to get (spend 4 months saving money, just realised christmas is coming up ).

Isocadia

PS: If I can lower the timings on the current kit, are there like certain steps I need to take ( the kit is 9-9-9-24 ). Should I put it directly one step lower ( 8-8-8-24 ) or could I also go with 8-9-8-24 or 8-8-8-20?
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Dec 2011 15:05
messing the the timings won't hurt anything. Feel free to experiment. I would probably just change one number at a time.

If it's already been running at 1600mhz for a year, I would just leave it that way then.


Isocadia
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Posted: 4th Dec 2011 18:49
If I decide to try and raise the timings, is there a certain order in which I should raise the timings, or can I just pick on of the numbers and see if it functions at a better timing ( what I'm trying to ask is, are all the timings independent from each other, or are there certain timings linked which need to be raised in pairs )?
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Dec 2011 23:03 Edited at: 4th Dec 2011 23:03
Nope, they're independent numbers.


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