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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Your App on iStore/Marketplace.. results?

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nz0
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 02:32
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Just curious, but what about posting your download success for games / apps you've published?

Cynical me knows that it will be pretty much *naff* all for virtually everyone, including TGC's efforts, but let's discuss the main issue of no matter how good or bad your app is, it's all down to marketing, so what do we all do to make the hard work visible and downloaded?

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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 16:27
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AGK is kind of a hobbyist dev tool, so I don't think many apps can get hundreds of thousands of downloads, especially the paid apps.
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 17:04
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Quote: "AGK is kind of a hobbyist dev tool, so I don't think many apps can get hundreds of thousands of downloads, especially the paid apps."

This comment is based on what facts?

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 17:56 Edited at: 16th Dec 2011 17:57
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I think that is up to the quality of the game. Code something that sells, put nice artwork on it and see what happens.

Oh, and market it like crazy.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 19:04
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The main thing to have is probably a good new idea or a clone of a realy good concept. (Veggie samurai)
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xCept
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 19:21
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Quote: "AGK is kind of a hobbyist dev tool, so I don't think many apps can get hundreds of thousands of downloads, especially the paid apps."


Well, I would argue that some of the most popular games (e.g., Doodle Jump) could readily be developed using AGK. In fact, the simpler the concept the better it seems to be on mobile platforms. AppGameKit is fully capable of producing grade A projects. The challenge is coming up with an innovative idea and then to get word out about it. With over half a million apps and hundreds of new games added weekly to iTunes, it is not going to be easy to get word out.
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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 19:52
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Fingers crossed we will see many Grade A projects with AppGameKit then
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nz0
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Posted: 16th Dec 2011 21:13
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So back to my original point: how can we get some decent advertising - placements, reviews etc. without paying lots of money out?

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nz0
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Posted: 18th Dec 2011 22:49 Edited at: 18th Dec 2011 22:53
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Well, I think my original post was diluted with talk about "hobby development". I wanted to discuss marketing and publicity for app awareness. Anyone?

This thread was intended to promote the discussion that is somewhat missing from here - namely turning your work into success.

[edit] of course, I say this because my 1st app with this product is designed to generate income and I'm not in this to waste my time

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xCept
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Posted: 18th Dec 2011 23:06
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I think it goes without saying that social networking can play a huge role in app promotion. A lot of apps have become popular because they allow users to tweet their scores of post info about the app on Facebook (this would only be possible using tier 2 dev in AppGameKit, currently).

submitting your app to game-related review sites can also have an impact depending on which sites decide to write about your game. However, I'd avoid paying for reviews. I know of two video review sites that charge around $200 for a brief video review while bragging about how large their YouTube, Facebook and Twitter fanbase is. However, the reviews are sloppily thrown together as if it is the first time they've ever used your app and rarely do they get more than a couple dozen views--and no notable increase in downloads whatsoever.
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nz0
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Posted: 18th Dec 2011 23:21 Edited at: 18th Dec 2011 23:22
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Well, I was thinking of using the so called "professionals" which may incur advertising costs of ~$4000 if you want to to do it properly.
Depends how much faith you have in your work to some degree?

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Mobiius
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Posted: 19th Dec 2011 11:22
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I currently have the services of an IT publicity company advertising and publicising my mobile apps for me, in addition to social media, youtube and print advertising.

I've made 12 sales between 4 apps.

If you know the secret to maximising publicity and sales I'm all ears! lol

My signature is NOT a moderator plaything! Stop changing it!
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fallen one
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Posted: 19th Dec 2011 13:34
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Quote: "I currently have the services of an IT publicity company advertising and publicising my mobile apps for me, in addition to social media, youtube and print advertising."


How much did that cost you


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bjadams
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Posted: 19th Dec 2011 15:34
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12 sales over 4 apps?!!!
And this with the help of an advertising company?!!1

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Dec 2011 15:59
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I've had over 3000 downloads on AppUp with zero advertising. OK only around 10% of that was sales but it's pretty hit and miss. One game has had no downloads at all.

Get a good game out there and do it for fun. If you want assured sales then go into a different line of work

You might make a simple game in a week that sells millions or make a really detailed game over 6-12 months and sell zip. Do it for fun and hope for a hit.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 00:14
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Quote: "How much did that cost you"

Nothing! Provided free from the company I work for. (Hewlett Packard)

Quote: "12 sales over 4 apps?!!!
And this with the help of an advertising company?!!1"

Unfortunately yes.

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nz0
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 00:59
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Well, the point of this post was to find what works. It's NEVER going to be my idea to "release and hope" - I would at least want to make some return from my efforts.

No, the point is what does actually help?

I know there's "ways" to get reviewed and placed, and I've even seen hints that releasing at a certain time might be beneficial... but nothing posted yet that's positive, other than "hope"

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CodeGit
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 04:39
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This is very much a hit and miss business and clever marketing and spreading the word is key to success.

When we released Crackshot for the iPhone http://www.appstorehq.com/crackshot-iphone-102124/app for the first couple of weeks it did not do that well. But after we had this comment from Greg Gruenberg http://twitter.com/#!/greggrunberg/status/6296106857 our sales were reaching into the 1000 mark daily and this continued for a few weeks and then dropped into the 100's and then eventually back down to double figures.

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newuser
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 23:05
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First post, hello everyone!

I'm still trying out the trial version of AppGameKit, but have been developing other types of Android apps for 18 months or so. Very excited about the possibilities with this software.

Coming from a rather greyhat background, I know there are a number of pretty effective ways to drive traffic/downloads.

With regard to the Android marketplace, an extensive description is effective, use all 4000 characters. The search algo isn't as advanced as big G itself, so you can get away with stuffing keywords. Use adsense keyword finder to load up every permutation it finds.

Also in the description, be transparent about advertising if it's free, ie if you use push notification ads or content lockers. Explain the permissions and why they're used, so users have a reason to trust you.

Make sure the most recent 3 ratings/comments are good. These are the ones people see on their phones by default. If you have poor ratings, pay for some on fiverr.com or get friends/family to install/rate.

Make sure the package name is relevent to the app, ie it uses keywords.

The above will get the app appearing higher up in search results.

Cross promote your other apps within the app. I don't know how easy this is to do with AppGameKit, but it's a 2 minute job in eclipse to knock up a webview of your marketplace apps.

Somewhere in the app - for example, at the end of a game - pop up the devices native share intents to "soft force" users to share your app. There's also some stuff you can do with the facebook api to get users posting on your facebook app page.

If you've got a website, host the apk's there as well. Use normal seo. Use contentbuzz.com (free) to run automated social sharing campaigns pointing to your website and marketplace listing.

Use fiverr.com to pay for +1's, fb likes/fans/friends/reviews etc. No need to spend a lot to get effective promotion.

Record a walkthrough for youtube. Add the video to your marketplace listing. Create a yt channel for all your app videos. Use vagex.com and u2bviews.com (both free) to get views, subscribers, likes, comments, favourites etc. This will get your videos appearing higher in yt search results and, quite often, an invitation from yt for that adsense profit share thing.

**Blackhat**

Get "mass video blaster" (not free). Spam yt with your videos on multiple accounts. Keyword stuff the descriptions and link to your app. Very, very effective if you can avoid getting too many accounts suspended.

Various other tools found on blackhat forums that can drive mad amounts of traffic. I wouldn't advise using any dubious tools to link to the marketplace directly, instead, use your website as a gateway.

My credentials? None really, but I've been building apps for a while after being in affiliate marketing for around six years, and my very average free apps bring in 3 figures daily from a combination of admob, leadbolt and some others.

Hope this helps someone, or at least sparks some ideas.

Cheers,

Paul.
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newuser
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 23:08 Edited at: 24th Dec 2011 11:53
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Double post, sorry
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newuser
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 12:43
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As I know absolutely zip all about game development, I thought I should contribute something I do know a little about rather than just be a lurker!

Just reading in this thread about getting reviews. This is a technique I use that costs 20 dollars using fiverr.com.

On fiverr.com you get what you pay for. If you supply the seller with the most basic information, you get the most basic results, so...

Find someone to write a 500+ word article about your app. Supply them with all the basic information you have so they can pad it out.

Find someone else to transcribe the article into a video review script.

Find someone to use the review script to make a review video.

Find someone to create a press release, supply them with your notes, the article and the transcript and let them sort it out into a coherent article.

You then have a pretty decent press release and review video to distribute to all the free review sites, press release sites, video sharing sites, article directories etc etc etc.

There are many such services on fiverr, some good, some dire. Use due diligence to check out their feedbacks and comments. Also, contact them before ordering the gig and ask some relevent questions. Generally, good sellers will take the time to answer your questions even before you've paid for anything.

One question I ask is if they'll do re-writes if I'm not happy with the results. Plenty of sellers will, but be very specific in what you want changing.

Also, and I hesitate to say this, and it is rather a generalisation, try and use native English writers/speakers to get more of a natural conversational style, rather than a 'stilted' perfunctory style.

Hope this helps.

Paul.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 20:24
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Thanks for the tips Paul

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nz0
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 23:12
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Nice one Paul. I think everyone should pay attention to this - some very sound advice here.

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bjadams
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Posted: 24th Dec 2011 23:17
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Paul, this is one of the most useful posts I have read this year across all the game-making boards I frequent.

THANKS
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 11:19
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I've release three apps so far, one on iPhone, one on iPad, and one on Touchpad. So far, Touchpad has been my best market. Sales so far have not justified the time and money spent, however it is something I am trying to build on. It's a very good bunch of folks that make up the WebOS community. Shame AppGameKit does not support it.

I feel like I am in the same boat as a musician who some talent. I record (code) my material and release my indie songs (apps) in the hope that I will be discovered someday... it's a long shot but then again your chances are zero if you don't put some stuff out there. More than likely you are going to struggle and you'll have to build a thick skin for disappointment. You have to make mistakes and you have to learn from those mistakes and most importantly you have to listen to feedback both good and bad and commit yourself to learning from it and taking it to heart. In my experience, there is no free lunch in the mobile app jungle.

The biggest thing is that you have to build a following. You have to build friendships and alliances so your next app has a chance of doing a little better than the last. My Touchpad app released the 1st of December and in the first 2 weeks had about 14 sales. I listened to feedback, made improvements and my sales had tripled in the past week. You have to build momentum, if not for your current app then for your next and your next and so on. If your apps are good, people will be waiting for your next release. Also, don't fall in love with your projects... treat it like a product, not like your baby.

Angry Birds wasn't built in a day, it built up into a juggernaut over a period of time. Have confidence in what you are doing but know when to move on to the next project. Make improvements and shamelessly self-promote yourself and your products. In the beginning, nobody is going to be a bigger advocate for your stuff than you are. What nobody tells you is that after your app is finished, that's when the real work starts.

It's tough, I had a bungled iPad launch of my new game (rated 4.7/5 stars on WebOS store currently) and I felt sick to my stomach but I am going to try it again until I get it right (delayed release, app was buried back 70 pages on release day... damn sorting bug).

Nobody said this was easy and statistically you'll have to endure your fair share of failure before you finally succeed but if you give up, the only sure thing is that you will not succeed.

Keep calm and carry on.
Good luck guys.

Intel i7-2600k - Asus P67 Sabertooth - 16GB RAM - 2x GTX 460 OC SLI - Lexar 128GB SSD Drive - 2TB ATA/600, Windows 7 x64. iPad, iPad2, iPhone 3GS & 4, HTC Inspire, Mac-Mini. Apps published: 1
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 12:13
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Invaluable and sensible feedback, AM! Thanks.

-- Jim
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fallen one
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Posted: 25th Dec 2011 16:53 Edited at: 25th Dec 2011 16:57
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What some of you will find releasing apps is that you will not cover the time in returns that you spent making the app, having negligible results, in fact you may see so little, that not only will you not get the return for your own time, you will possibly not even get back what you paid for the years apple developer fees. That's the harsh reality for a lot of people who try and dip their toes into the app marketplace, it is not for the faint hearted or the idealistic when faced with the real PRACTICALITIES of development.

and newuser, thanks for the heads up on fiverr, Ive just signed up for an account, looks great for picking up people to do little bits of work for things, there looks to be some quite talented and genuine eccentrics hanging out there, I look forward to hiring some of them.


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newuser
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Posted: 26th Dec 2011 03:22
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@fallen one - The little bits in themselves don't really add up to much, most of them are basically pre-sells, but if you use a few sellers in a work flow, each of them doing a little bit, you can get some really decent results for around 20/25 dollars - waaaaay cheaper than hiring one company/person to produce 'something'.

I used the example of getting a press release and video produced, but there are tons of workflows you could set up eg: Customise an FB fan page > post content > get friends > get likes > run an xrumer campaign. etc etc.

You're so right about the eccentrics, there are some truly wacky gigs on there!
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newuser
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Posted: 27th Dec 2011 02:52
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Thanks for the comments everyone. I hope I'm offering a different viewpoint for others to think about, and as I know absolutely nothing about anything in any of the other threads on this forum yet, I may as well carry on posting in this one and see what happens!

QR Codes...

You don't need to use 3rd party online services to create QR Codes, you could use this:

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chs=250x250&cht=qr&choe=UTF-8&chl=http://your_url_of_choice_can_be_put_here.com

the 250x250 are px size and you can change them to any square size you like.

Just post that full url in your address bar and save the resulting image.

In my paticular niches, I join every forum and group related to the subject that I can find and use a qr code as an avatar. Some avatars are too small, but most are able to scan ok in any Android QR code scanner app. Linking directly to my app, or marketplace listings, or website, or whatever else I can think of. Simple and free.

A less targetted, but larger volume method is to use xrumer or similar software to set up multiple profiles on multiple forums (I'm talking hundreds or thousands), all using the QR code as an avatar. Don't link to any google, or important, web properties with this! Link them to an article, press release or video.

Another use is to save the QR Code image that I've created, stick it in my favourite image editing soft - I use fireworks - and customise all the black bits (make sure to use dark colours).

I then have an interesting looking image to submit to all the photo sharing sites, like flickr, photobucket, tweetpics, facebook and so on and so on. Even artists sites like deviant art. I max out the title, description and tags with my keywords.

A good free online service to auto submit images to multiple sites at the same time is: http://pixelpipe.com

A good free online service to manually submit images to multiple sites at the same time (unless you have an image rss feed) is http://ping.fm

Hope this helps,

Paul.
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