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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Sorry to see lip synch not going anywhere

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Flatlander
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Posted: 17th Dec 2011 20:11
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Just lamenting that lip synch is underutilized. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that all the new characters that pop up from 3rd party modelers are not including the "mouth" for lip synching. So many people, including myself, were so excited about this feature but it seems that only TGC characters have this capability.

Oh, well. I guess we still can make games without it. Since I concentrate on educational games (except for one) it would have been nice to have talking, lip synching characters.


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pdidy
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Posted: 17th Dec 2011 20:40 Edited at: 17th Dec 2011 20:42
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well the lip synch idea was good but try geting the rig out of
the buttler files, if anyone has got the rig i would love to make some , but loading the butler rig for the files takes forever
in max there must be something wrong or what version of max was used, any one with the extracted rig would like to upload the files,
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uzi idiot
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Posted: 17th Dec 2011 21:21
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I too was very excited for lipsyncing, however,
as you say, the unfortunate thing is that there is a very limited selection of FPSC media with DarkVoices compatibility.

If there was a larger selection of media, and maybe a better free lipsync file editor, then it would be used more.


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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 18th Dec 2011 12:06
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I have tried to create a lip sync-ready character, but its quite hard if you dont have a clue on how you should create the face in order to work with lip sync.
But I do hope that we will see more characters soon.
Maybe if there were to be released a "free for all usage" head, ready for lip sync. Then those who wants could build their character around the head, and modify it to their liking.

Hint hint


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bond1
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Posted: 18th Dec 2011 15:44 Edited at: 18th Dec 2011 15:49
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I was going to do a pack of lip-syncable characters way back when. But the reception for the feature on the forum seemed to be lukewarm at best when the lip-sycning feature came out.

I thought it was pretty cool for what it is, but I remember some folks even went so far as to complain that this new FREE feature didn't live up to their lofty expectations.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 18th Dec 2011 16:29
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Actually it is quite fun making characters with the lip-syncing feature, but does take a bit of time and patience.

Quote: "I thought it was pretty cool for what it is, but I remember some folks even went so far as to complain that this new FREE feature didn't live up to their lofty expectations."


LOL. That is nothing new.


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uman
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 05:49
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The lip syncing attached to FPSC Characters is not perhaps the best in the world but it really does make a big difference to any character to which the player needs to communicate with. It improves a game no end. Without it characters that play a voice sound simply dont cut it as they may as well have a rock with a face texture applied for a head to add to the rock like stance that many use when at idle.

I use lip sync characters and love it. I will use them extensively.

With some work you can use the default "Talkers" to create some different characters by changing the skins or taking the models into your model editor and perhaps changing the mesh too. I have done it with one talker model only to date. You do have to be very careful if editing the head mesh if selecting and changing the vertex points to avoid distortion of the Lip Sync vertexes that may result in a distorted face in game level.

Nice it would be if there were more models with the feature available but if your game has a lot of characters which may look relatively similar like soldiers then you may be able to get enough variation with some effort using what we have easily available. It may require quite a lot of work though.

I guess many not many have used the feature as many games made with FPSC dont need talking characters which are more effort to make - you need a story, script, voice recording, lip sync enabled characters and so on. A lot of games seem to be restricted to running around shooting a few enemies in almost complete darkness - which is fair enough, but not much call for talking there.

If talking characters were easier to implement I guess more would use them.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 06:54
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Quote: "If talking characters were easier to implement I guess more would use them."


This is certainly the issue I think... I have succesfully used the provided ones, but I have no skill with modelling so I can't do my own work. If a lip sync character pack came out, I would be first in line to buy it.

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JRH
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 11:42
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I agree, talking characters is something that is used very little. Alongside that is the rigidness of characters as they speak, in a fixed stance. It would be nice if they could move. Actually, most FPSC characters seem pretty rigid?
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Errant AI
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 12:28
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Supporting the feature is somewhat costly on the asset side as the face rigging adds a couple dozen additional limbs to the character... It nearly doubles the complexity of the animation skeleton. Personally, I just don't think the juice is worth the squeeze just yet. As-is, there's no support for eye movement/blinking or emotion overlay yet. The rigging for it is there but there's no real way for an artist to make sure it works correctly in FPSC. Also factor in the fact that there is no gestural talking type animations in the stock animset so IMO, the end result is possibly worse than nothing because it heads off the uncanny valley cliff to just see a rigid, unblinking character flapping their jaw like a marionette.

I agree that its a cool feature and a nice direction. I really liked the facial expressions and talking on characters in Postal2 (geeze that game is probably older than some forum members now... which is to say it's nothing cutting edge!). If the feature is developed further it might inspire more artists to get on board with it but for now it's a lot of hassle for little benefit.
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maho76
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 17:56
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another aspect is that, as far as i have looked around, most of us dont have that good voices at hand to use this feature. 90% of the projects work with text instead of speech.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2011 16:36 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2011 16:50
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Quote: "If a lip sync character pack came out, I would be first in line to buy it."

I'd stand in that line as well.

Quote: "I was going to do a pack of lip-syncable characters way back when. But the reception for the feature on the forum seemed to be lukewarm at best when the lip-sycning feature came out. "

Bond,
I have a cast of zombies survivors waiting for bodies rigged and ready to speak.
Generic Males and Females would be nice, so we could retexture into more characters, without editing the mesh.
Even editing the mesh can cause the whole thing to foul up with the less expensive modeling programs.
I could never even import and export without it going haywire, even if I made no changes at all.
It looks like those who do not have the top end modeling programs have to wait for you guys who do to make these.
So, the re-texturing option would be great.

The women we already have all have skirts except Aiko, which has the padded armor.
So, a woman in pants would be a much needed addition.

The thug gives us a good base for a generic male, and I have had success retexturing him.
However, different body shapes, like skinny and fat guys, would be a nice addition too. (for the woman too)

Just a few well thought out characters would be needed to offer many different types of people with retextures.
Anyway, if you ever decide to do a pack of talking characters, there are my two cents on what would receive more than a luke warm response.

Quote: "I thought it was pretty cool for what it is, but I remember some folks even went so far as to complain that this new FREE feature didn't live up to their lofty expectations."

I thought it was awesome, and I loved the heads that you did for the stock characters.
I've been waiting to see if you would ever do more.
After awhile, I started thinking that it must have been too much trouble rigging to want to do again.
I'm glad to see that you were considering it, and I hope that you reconsider it, because of the few talkers out there, yours are the best.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 15:25
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Quote: "I'm glad to see that you were considering it, and I hope that you reconsider it, because of the few talkers out there, yours are the best."


I concur. I really don't think that there needs to be a talker for every single npc. From what I've seen with games there are only a few that the player will talk with. In fact, I know I will only need a handful of generic characters. Bond1, maybe you could do one talker for each of your themed characters and put them all in a pack to sell.


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elbow
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 17:12
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Hi all

I have been working on an educational game for a year now and I have bought Dark Voices as it would be an educational advantage to hear, read and "see" the character speak.

I have approximately 10 characters who need to be seen to speak. I have created/adapted 15 characters with Fragmotion and bought two from Josh Mooney, but I would love to:
- purchase a pack of talkin' characters to adapt to my purposes, or;
- follow a tutorial on rigging existing characters' heads to lip sync (I understand Dark Voices, but modeling my current characters to use this is "Dark" to me - although it might be "Basic" for some).

Regards

Eugene
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DennisW
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2011 17:55
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKOB0X-3V8

@ bond1 I did this soon after 117.9 came out. Can't you see some of your characters that you made like spiky break out in song. I for one would pay the extra amount to have it on characters. Maybe thats the way to do it offer it with or without $10.00 more to have it. Just a thought.

Dennis

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