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Work in Progress / Carnage (In Development Again!)

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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 17:07 Edited at: 28th Mar 2012 17:09


Carnage is a top down death-fest shooter with an emphasis on brutal fast tempo combat. It is being developed in conjunction with TGC for commercial release. The demo is a single player deathmatch against BOTs, but the full version will be predominantly a multi-player game with many game modes, arenas, weapons, power-ups and even more gore.

Download: Carnage Demo (104 MB Installer EXE)

Full game development going on in this thread.

Facebook Page (Please 'Like')

The demo presentation video



A play through of v1.07 (Before lighting shaders were complete)



Some in game screen shots (click to enlarge) ...















Controls
WSAD/CURSOR KEYS - Move around the arena
MOUSE - Aim your contestant
LMB - Kill stuff
RMB - Pick-up weapons, Enter/Exit turrets
R/NUMPAD 0 - Reload

Long Term Plans
The full version of Carnage has not been designed yet, but likely features are:
- Several arenas, each with their own look and feel, traps and unique themed power-ups.
- More weapons, possibly proximity bombs, acid guns, shurikens and other brutal tools of death
- Different game modes, from the traditional deathmatch and capture the flag, to things like base assaults, last man standing, and hero style '1 vs all' modes
- Full multiplayer support, with online leagues and player profiles so players can earn the fame they deserve by hacking their way through the competition
- Richer atmospherics, with a more advanced commentator system and accompanying media (e.g. an announcer in the area on a microphone, introducing the game show, and animated crowds)
- Much much much much much more gore

So that's Carnage, originally put together in 2008, developed in 2009, waiting in the wings for the last couple of years and now finally being commercially developed. Please show your support if you're interested with feedback, comments, bug reports and general feeling on the demo.

Update History
12th Mar - Carnage v1.09
Settings Menu added, new weapon models, bug fixes, gameplay improvements etc.


7rd Mar - Carnage v1.08
More visual updates to shaders, explosions, animations, deathcams etc, plus gameplay tweaks.


3rd Mar - Carnage v1.07
Shaders and other graphical updates in this version.


1st Mar - Carnage v1.06


27th Feb - Carnage v1.05


23rd Feb - Carnage v1.04


21st Feb - Carnage v1.03


20th Feb - Carnage v1.02



Back Story


KeithC
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 17:31
Looks like a real solid game...good luck!

-Keith

zapakitul
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 17:34
Finally, your back on track in working on the game! Have you thought about releasing it on the AppUp store?

P.s. liked it on Facebook! Keep us updated!
Fallout
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 17:47 Edited at: 17th Feb 2012 17:50
Thanks for the kind words chaps. What we're going to do is enter it into a demo competition which will put it in front of Steam. So the plan now is to try and get those guys to see the potential. If they do, and they agree to distribute it, then Carnage can go into full on development at last.

So it all hangs on that really. One thing I'm fairly sure of is, the bigger the following the game demo has, and the more the community would like to see it go all the way to a fully commercial game, the more confidence Steam will have in it. So we definitely need the community to help us out.

Edit: Sig change!

zapakitul
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 18:07
@Fallout: The competition which ends on 15th march? Do you think you can reach the deadline? If so, good luck!
Fallout
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 19:11
That's the one. We can definitely give them something. It's how polished we can get it before we hand it over! That's why I'm hoping people will give me lots of feedback on the demo.

zapakitul
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 20:52
Downloading it right now!
Gunslinger
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 21:03 Edited at: 17th Feb 2012 21:12
wow, thats awesome. Maybe the best WIP i've ever saw. Downloading.

e/ Looks good so far. But you have to add a symbol or something at the spawn. I have to search my character position first, and then i'm allready dead.
Fallout
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 21:22
Thanks for checking it out! The Spawn issue is fixed in the newest version. I'll probably upload an update next week. The camera snaps to where you spawn and starts zoomed in. I'll add some sorta delay if it's still an issue, but it plays better in the next update.

Slayer267
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 22:04
So you're the ones taking my facebook likes from my facebook page -.-

Your signature has been erased by a mod; it needs to be no larger than 600x120.
cyril
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Posted: 17th Feb 2012 22:46
I remember this project, and I tried your demo.

I had a few movement issue that randomly popped up once, where I was unable to move and the animation was stuck in a single frame, was which was the walking frame. I saidly couldn't repeat the bug.

other than that it was enjoyable, there is one improvement I could recommend:
The ability to choose whether you want to pick up a weapon or not with the ctrl key, I disfavoured the moments where a wall of weak weapons blocking me from using a route.

Over to the good bit: I enjoy the strategic aspect involving melee and Guns, that if you have a gun you have a great advantage over melee at a distance but if you running away from them and they are on your tail the game turns into a pac-man style run for your life moment. If you end up having any team based gamemodes that would be a very useful lure feature. When you talked about adding strafing, I wondered if this aspect could be maintained?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 03:55
Good to see you again dude. Was beginning to wonder you were out of internet for good.

But this project looks pretty freaking sweet. Totally downloading it...at least tomorrow, it's like 3am.


MMM
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 08:02
Any chance I could be involved in this project somehow? I'm only working part time in game dev these days but I've done some cool stuff in the past. Won some money and whatever. Also did some exploitation cinema before I switched to games, so this stuff is right up my alley. Thoughts?

Brendy boy
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 14:42
I always wondered what happened to this game. Didn't you switch to XNA or something? How come you didn't work on it for 3 whole years?

Nice to see you back!

zapakitul
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 14:52
@Brendy boy: From what I knew, Fallout was busy working on his Android Games, after SONY said no to Carnage (if I'm not mistaken).
Fallout
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 15:24
Quote: "other than that it was enjoyable, there is one improvement I could recommend:
The ability to choose whether you want to pick up a weapon or not with the ctrl key, I disfavoured the moments where a wall of weak weapons blocking me from using a route."


Agreed. That can be a bit annoying for some. I'll add a ctrl based weapon pick up.

Quote: "When you talked about adding strafing, I wondered if this aspect could be maintained?"


That's true. It's a question of player expectation though. If nobody expects strafing or misses it, then I'm happy to leave it out for now. I'm only considering adding it because I think players will want that functionality. What do people think?

@Sep - Yes mate! Sorry about vanishing off the grid. After XMAS finances were a big issue and I had to get other work which took all my time. I emailed Josh and hoped the message somehow filtered down through the grapevine. I literally had no time, so stepped away from game dev completely. I hope you enjoy the demo though mate, and I'm looking forward to your feedback.

@MMM - At the moment I'm working on the demo alone, but if it goes into full development, we may need help from others. Do you have any links to work similar to Carnage?

Quote: "I always wondered what happened to this game. Didn't you switch to XNA or something? How come you didn't work on it for 3 whole years?"


Basically, what zapak said. Initially Carnage was a Sony PSN candidate but it lost out so some rubbish medical surgery game at the last hurdle. We were considering going for an XNA entry, but it would've been a lot of work and there was no funding. So I went to work on Android games instead, but that market proved to be too difficult. Now there's this opportunity for Carnage, so we're giving it another go.

Hopefully we can go all the way this time, and make it commercial. If it's on Steam it'll be on PC, which is obviously the best possible platform and would be epic. I expect a TGC clan to form of elite Carnage players, competing for world domination!

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 15:55 Edited at: 18th Feb 2012 15:57
Quote: " Sorry about vanishing off the grid. After XMAS finances were a big issue and I had to get other work which took all my time."


Fairplay, RL does that to you :S.



Also, feedback on the demo:
It's very well put together: the voice overs, the kill cam, the graphics (runs pretty damn smooth on my laptop with Intel GMA and I'd bet it'd work on a Netbook too) and level design. The AI is good, I like that a guy with a bigger gun that me was able to chase me around the scene past obstacles and shoot me down, so thumbs up on the path finding.

I imagine it could get pretty addictive to play, I usually find games that can be brutally cruel are. I can imagine when the difficulty steps up I'll be out for blood, it'd work pretty well as multiplayer, though I could see myself enjoying it single player. I think it'd definitely need some difficulty settings, the demo felt like what it should if you were playing Easy mode.

Plus...Grim Reaper = win, having a burst of being 'oh yeah, I'm totally awesome' makes it worth having, obviously without becoming too overpowered as you've got to run in and get the kill.

A few things on the controls though:
Repeatedly hitting 'shift' activates sticky keys.
I wouldn't mind more options for how to control your player.
Mouse = direction
Mouse click = fire
WASD = movement
would be my preferred method of control. Either that or use an XBox 360 controller (right stick = direction, left stick = move, trigger = fire), but if you're gonna end up going for XNA, I'm sure you're thinking about that anyway.

Just my thoughts anyway. It's something I'd probably buy and share with friends...and would think if sold on Steam and had multiplayer, then I'd be psyched because I could probably convince friends to play against me.


Fallout
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 16:52
Cheers for the feedback Brynster. To address your points ...

Yeah, we want the game to run on as many systems as possible, so I've tried to as stingy as possible without sacrificing on visuals too much. I'm glad to hear it's running well.

With regard to difficulty, there are two issues that make the demo feel easy at the moment. If you look in the INI file, you'll see you have twice as much health as the AI. Set that to 100, and you'll find it much tougher. Secondly, the AI was quickly put together, and so it's quite easy to ambush them. Human players will definitely add the challenge this game is all about. The original version was 4 player on the same compo (two on keyboard, one on mouse, one on a joystick!) and that was amazing fun to play. So multiplayer is really where this game belongs. I'd like to keep a single player mode though.

Here's a vid of the old version with me and 3 other mates playing ...


The Grim Reaper is one example of a whole load of "Oh YEAH!" power-ups that are in the design docs. The ideas vary from simple invisibility to hollograms (Total Recall style), plus better arena features and gun emplacements. Just gotta get the game rolling to get them in!

As for the controls, you're just confirming my suspicion that FPS WSAD+mouse controls are what most people would like.

Abeyance looks good btw mate. I'm glad you're using me as the main character.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 18:37
Quote: "Abeyance looks good btw mate. I'm glad you're using me as the main character."


Cheers and lol, it's after John Keats, but if you really want a Keating in there I could slide in Ronan Keating somehow.



Quote: " Human players will definitely add the challenge this game is all about. The original version was 4 player on the same compo (two on keyboard, one on mouse, one on a joystick!) and that was amazing fun to play. So multiplayer is really where this game belongs. I'd like to keep a single player mode though.
"


Yeah, I can see how multi player would really add to the fun of it. But still single player is fun.

Quote: "As for the controls, you're just confirming my suspicion that FPS WSAD+mouse controls are what most people would like. "


It's what feels most natural, but then I guess it's because a lot of games do it.


JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 20:41
Great demo and there's a lot of fun that can be had, especially with the multiplayer aspect of the game.

A few notes:

1) Grim Reaper lasts way too long. Grabbing that pick-up once can get you to the top of the ladder really fast.
2) Some areas allow you to perform a 'leap over' but because of a bar you can't actually get over the wall. So instead your character hands there while his legs start to spin around all crazy like.
3) At the end of a round everyone's leg keep looping their run animation at super speed(I think you know this)
4) Turrets should be destructible.
5) I think you should have a melee attack along with your gun attack. It's easy to get right 'into' an enemy or them into you and your shots don't connect. A melee that pushes them away would be nice to have.
6) Traps should be destructible.
7) Controls are awkward. Definitely try the mouse/keyboard or joypad. I think this would be great played with a xbox style controller.

I'd go into graphics, but I know you won't be working on those before the deadline.

Fallout
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 21:06 Edited at: 18th Feb 2012 21:08
Cheers for the feedback Mr Mooney. To address your points ...

1. I think the main problem with the Reaper is the bots don't run away, so you get crazy killage. I think by addressing the AI so the bots legs it from you (as you would if they picked it up), it should redress the balance.

2. Gonna remove the leap functionality. It's kind of fun, but it's also fairly pointless in it's current form, and as you've pointed out, it's quite buggy. Also the BOTs aren't currently programmed to leap, so they're at a disadvantage. I'll rethink this for the full version.

3. Known bug

4. I think that'd be good for the full version, but to stop players sitting in the turret for ages for the demo, I'm just going to add an ammo limit. Then the player will have to jump out while it spends some time reloading. I think I'd like some proper turret carnage in the full version though. Imagine a destructible turret where armour panels slowly fall off and it starts to smoke before blowing up.

5. Agreed. Would it be an automatic melee attack if you fire at point blank range, or using the second key?

6. That trap was a last minute addition last time the game was in development. I think they need a good rethink for the full game. I think I'll move the trigger platform into the main walk way though.

7. Actually, there is already PS3 controller support. Not tested it for 3 years, but I know it's in there! It requires you to install a driver from the net though which makes your controller a windows USB device.

As for graphics, yeah, a new stylised look, new character designs, and general look and feel will need to be thought about for the full version. One to think of after the compo.

Cheers for your feedback buddy.

Quote: "Cheers and lol, it's after John Keats, but if you really want a Keating in there I could slide in Ronan Keating somehow."


Bryn, you will pay for mocking my famous Irish bloodline!!!

JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 22:35
To retort;

1) That would balance it. Another thing to consider is an instant reaper killer. Something similar to Gauntlet for N64. It could be an item a player equips before hand and is one time use. Good way to turn the tide from an reaper xenocide.

2) I think if the leaping was combined with a cover mechanic this would still be effective.

4) I like this idea. You could have a fully working turret that is armored and can provide protection. Whittle it's health down and it leaves the player exposed, even disabling rotation.

5) I think it should be a second button because I would also like to see players able to kick objects, even switches for traps or doors.

6) The levels definitely need more traps. The only one I encountered was the saw blade, and you needed to get really close to die. (This is where the kick would come in handy ) Right now that looks slapped on. I really think levels should be built around the traps, so that they can be used as an advantage and an obstacle to players depending on how you approach them. My favorite multiplayer maps of all time form all genres are the ones where the maps are built around an awesome trap.

7) I have a Logitech joypad I will try it out.

I think this game would look good in a Borderlands style graphics. Something similar to what we were going for in our previous project.

The game reminds me of a top-down UTG. Needs a lot more blood and guts imo. Needs the weapons to do this too.Throw in some acid, chemical and ice weapons. That should do the trick.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Feb 2012 00:26
Quote: "Bryn, you will pay for mocking my famous Irish bloodline!!"


My Irish nan's called Katie Price. I think you come off better here.


Quote: "1. I think the main problem with the Reaper is the bots don't run away, so you get crazy killage. I think by addressing the AI so the bots legs it from you (as you would if they picked it up), it should redress the balance."


I think this works as a useful solution. When in multiplayer your mates are probably trying to get out of the way and strategically take you down. I kind of think of it like becoming a Big Daddy in Bioshock 2's multiplayer, you're mega awesome, but everybody's trying to take you out and also getting out of your way.

I don't know how your AI works, but maybe use 'hate' system (like MMORPG's use) to basically encourage an NPC to attack you - so for example, one guy's chasing another guy down, you shoot him in the back increasing his 'hate' levels and then attacking you. Repear could kind of cause a certain level of hate by simply existing. So you one on hand they're trying to keep out of melee distance, they're also trying murder you dead.


JLMoondog
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Posted: 19th Feb 2012 00:39 Edited at: 19th Feb 2012 00:40
The Reaper ability appears to be invincible too. I think a hate system would work nicely too. After you loose your Reaper ability, everyone comes after you in revenge. It's also true what Sep said. In any multiplayer where your able to gain a 'god like' ability, everyone either sets aside their differences and goes after them or they forget their current target and try to take cover. The balance here is giving a player an easy way to rack up a few kills without abusing it. Hence my idea for a one time use Reaper killer, game changing game changer.

Fallout
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Posted: 19th Feb 2012 12:13
I like your ideas dudes and I'm glad to see both of you thinking about where the game could go. From Monday, I'm going to concentrate on working with that's there and making it as playable as possible. So the ideas that are most important are working with what's there to make it play well. So far:

- Fix control system to include mouse WSAD support, and experiment with strafing.
- Fix AI to run away from reaper. This power-up has already been tweaked so it's rarer, and I'm going to code the BOTs to pick it up (currently they only pick it up by accident). That way it'll be harder to get hold of. I may also randomise it's position, to avoid Reaper power-up camping.
- Add reloading to turrets to stop the player sitting in there for too long (will think about turret destruction in the full version)
- Second button for weapon pick-up
- Remove jumping (will put something better in for full version)
- Other tweaks I've not listed ...

Thanks for the feedback though. It's all very useful. I'm looking forward to getting this into full time development, if that opportunity arises and then really get creative with the ideas.

MMM
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Posted: 20th Feb 2012 00:51
Quote: "I'm going to concentrate on working with what's there and making it as playable as possible."



This is a crucial quote.

You have almost no time left to work on this. That said, I can't offer any advice with gameplay features or balancing because I don't have your code and I can't tell how long such changes would take. Your to-do list looks solid.


However...

Don't forget you are trying to please judges in a politically-motivated competition. Those judges are not just looking for a "good game" alone. For this competition to generate the PR Intel wants, they need their winner to eventually make it onto Steam. So they will be looking for "Good Steam Games".

My experience with the Steam submission process has revealed two basic features ALL steam games must now have which your game is currently lacking:


- Smooth 2D Interface (visually+conceptually)
- Shaders


As a demo, and with the promise of multiplayer, your game fits all the other major 3D-game criteria. But you need these last missing two.

Your current 2D assets appear to struggle with resolution changes. In fact your whole game struggles a bit - but it's the 2D that is the real issue. This is a problem well documented among DarkBasic AppUp developers. It is easily fixed and needs to be fixed.

The "shaders" might seem like a faff requirement but it's just something we need to accept. Your game is perfectly suited to using a full-screen shader. PERFECTLY SUITED.

It's a grunge TV show, right? So make it look like it's on TV. There's really no excuse for NOT doing that. Plus it is a good idea. You've made your levels look like the basement of a maximum security prison for the criminally insane, so it figures most the TV footage will come from security cameras already installed - or at least, unmanned cameras. We all know this is Manhunt - bask in it!

Get your hands on Bond1's scanlines+desaturation shader. Make a different version of the shader with different numbers of scanlines for each resolution the game might run at. Check the resolution on startup, load the appropriate shader to get the right number of scanlines. This will solve your 3D resolution problem automatically if you choose not fix it - you're not using AA anyway. I understand you want to keep this game minimal (Netbook/Android release?) but consider this...

The judges will surely be running Alienware machines, Dell's flagship gaming PC line. They don't need to worry about optimised processing for a demo. Worry about that AFTER the competition.

Now imagine you DO implement the scanline shader. Suddenly you have a VERY good excuse for a smooth 2D interface: the HUD of the cameras themselves. It's an old-hat trick that always works and your audience will love you for it. Your current 2D is passable and fits your current style (technical problems excepted) but it's abstract. You don't want abstract in a game like this - you want to be as gritty and grungy as possible. So...


- TV scanlines shader
- TV hud 2D interface


These should be super-high priority once you finish your current to-do list. It should take you less than a day to implement. If you are unsure about any of this stuff - I can do it for you. I wouldn't have suggested it unless I knew it was quick and easy. Most importantly, it shouldn't screw with your existing code.


Also, I have no investment here but I'd be happy to help you out after the comp if you decide to take this further. I've been working as a contract game designer for 2 years but mostly people hire me when they're at the stage you are at now - between awesome game and awesome product. If you want to see some portfolio stuff, can I email you at your website support addresss?


<<<end massive post>>>

Fallout
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Posted: 20th Feb 2012 11:49 Edited at: 20th Feb 2012 19:33
Patch 1 now available. Just some minor changes.

1. Sliding/jump functionality removed
2. Control mechanism changed to:
Mouse aiming
LMB Fire
RMB Get in/out of turrets
W/S Forwards/Backwards
Q/E Lean (Still fairly pointless)
A/D Strafe (not yet implement)
3. Sound bugs fixed (sound volume issues fixed in future patch)
4. Reaper power-up less frequent
5. All bullet aiming improved (less vertical inaccuracy, but same horizontal inaccuracy)
6. Weapons balanced better
7. Death cam slow down shortened
8. Camera snaps to player on spawn to reduce respawn confusion (still needs improvement)
9. Modified INI file settings

Download here: (Patch now superseded by new version 2)

Still lots more to do.

Fallout
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Posted: 20th Feb 2012 19:39 Edited at: 20th Feb 2012 19:41
Patch 2 now complete. Full game download required from previous URL (extra files in random directories, so easier than patching):

- Star highlight on respawn
- Reaper tweaks
- AI now run away from the reaper
- Few other minor fixes
This upload supersedes the v1 patch.

Carnage Alpha V1.02 (110MB)

The only think I'm concentrating on now is making the game play well and feel challenging. Feedback on gameplay would be much appreciated.

MrValentine
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Posted: 21st Feb 2012 07:00
Wow... just wow...

not my taste of mindless fun gameplay... but very good work... just tagging in to see how far you get with this and hopefully wishes given you will make this a success!!! perhaps even get your own tv show like that silly wrestling show forgot what it was called... the one made of plastercene

Fallout
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Posted: 21st Feb 2012 15:42 Edited at: 21st Feb 2012 16:13
Celebrity Deathmatch? I remember that. Not sure it's going to become a global television network phenomenon, but I'd be more than happy with an internet following.

More to the point though ...

UPDATE TIME

Carnage v1.03 (I need to start putting this number in a TXT file)

Loads of cool fixes:
- Moved saw blade button into a more useful place, added sound effect, made it last longer
- Programmed AI to do basic saw blade avoidance
- Turrets updated to now have a 70 shot ammo counter. After this, it reloads for 20 seconds. An ammo icon overhead shots this.
- Slowed the Reaper down a tiny bit to give AI players a chance to escape you and prevent huge Reaper carnage (and an easy victory)
- Weapon highlight circles added to help you clearly see where weapon pick ups are
- Star highlight to show when you've respawned
- AI now hunt out and pick up power-ups
- AI now spot the Reaper coming sooner and leg it!
- Reaper scythe range fractionally reduced
- Right Mouse Button now must be pressed to pick up weapons
- Decreased grenade launcher rate of fire and rocket launcher ROF increased
- Stopped animations after game (no more running legs)

Loads and loads of changes. Because of additional media, this update is coming as another full download. I've trimmed some fat and got it down to 90MB. Please delete your old installation and start fresh with this one.

Same place to download:
Carnage v1.03 (90 MB)

Cybermind
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Posted: 21st Feb 2012 21:38
Sorry, but I have not read much about Carnage, so I do not if this is something you already have. I have been working on games similar to carnage so here is a few ideas Do you have commentators? They can comment on specific events, like "WOOW there his head said goodbye to his body" or "Nice slaughter, nice execution" or "HE RUNS FOR HIS LIFE aaaaand he didn't make it, nice death"/"HE RUNS FOR HIS LIFE aaaaand he made it, damn it..."

Online part:
Normal leagues
Leagues where you store your character and buys weapons in a shop for money won in games.

There you go, the main features from my arena type games

The byte chrunchers are coming...
DIVIDING BY ZERO/BECAUSE WE SUCK...
zapakitul
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2012 09:28
@Cybermind: Check his youtube video! The comentator part is there, and it adds to the atmosphere alot!
Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2012 11:34
Yeah, the commentator is quite central to Carnage already. This is a first bash at it, and was quickly put together. In the full version, I'd like to write a more complex commentary system, where it picks out more fine details, like near misses, camping, low health, multi kills etc. Right now he just commentates on kills. There's definitely loads of potential to make commentators uber cool.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2012 18:12
Just played the new version and unfortunately I was unable to play at all because the controls took a step back, part of which isn't actually your fault.

New bug/grip list:

1) Instead of turning the character by moving the mouse left and right, I think the character should point at a cursor that you can move across the screen. Right now it's hard to control him, and I feel like I'm steering a drunk. This brings me to a terrible bug:

2) This game hates computers with duel monitors. If I move my mouse too far right my cursor appears in my right monitor and I loose all control of my character, including turning and shooting.

Not sure if the game is running at window full screen, as I know if I run games at full screen that my mouse or cursor will stay within the render window.

3) Can't get my joypad controller to work. It's a windows Logitech duel analog. Not sure what the problem is. But I'd love to be able to use this instead of mouse/keyboard.

The AI upgrade looks great though and they seem a lot smarter. But I was killed a few times right after spawning. Maybe throw in the invulnerable for 3s after spawn mechanic that most multiplayer games use would solve this problem. Would cut back camping for real players too.

Looking forward to the next update.

Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2012 18:24
Mr Mooney,

1. That's not a bad control suggestion at all. I'll have a think about it. First thoughts are it could work very well so I'll give it some strong consideration tomorrow.

2. I had the same problem and I actually switched to single monitor while developing. Now somebody else has complained, I'll look for a solution. Perhaps there is a setting in DBP I can use to prevent that happening.

3. If you could point with the mouse, would you still prefer to use a joy pad? That'd be pretty easy to implement with the DBP joystick controls. The control pad solution looks like it's been switched off last time I worked on it, so that's why it's not working (now I tell ya! ). I don't think I'll implement it if your mouse idea turns out to play better. If it doesn't, I'd add it in.

As for the AI upgrade, it's even better now. The AI now use turrets, which brings a whole new world of hurt. I'll probably get that update online tomorrow at some point. As for spawn camping, that's not possible since there are no spawn points (the location is completely random). Once I spawned on the blade button which is now in front of the blade. That sucks.

But I hear you on the invulnerability thing. I'll add it to the list, although there is something I personally like about instant death. It's a frantic game show which isn't supposed to be fair, and I'd like the idea of the commentator laughing at you with a comment like "SPAWNED IN THE WRONG PLACE, DIDN'T YA?!?! AHAHAHAHA".

Perhaps an "invulnerabilty on spawn" option in the INI file, and later on in the game settings would do the job.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2012 18:30 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2012 18:33
1/2/3) Yah if you implement the mention control scheme I'd definitely take that over the joypad. This would solve all the problems at once because you would make movement and aiming easier and you could keep the cursor inside the render window with a simple if/then coordinate check.

If the AI can use the turrets then I'll really want to be able to destroy them.

3rd edit: I like the idea of the commentator mocking you for dying on spawn, good idea. Maybe instead of being invulnerable for 3s after spawn, if your unlucky for 3 times in a row then you get the buff. Otherwise it's (un)fair game!

Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2012 18:33 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2012 18:59
Quote: "and you could keep the cursor inside the render window with a simple if/then coordinate check."


If that works, I'll go to the bathroom, look in the mirror, and laugh in my own face for being so stupid.

Edit: Fixed temporarily by just constantly positioning the cursor in the window at a specific coordinate (this works as it's using mousemovex() not mousex()). It can't detect it going out of the window, for some reason. I suspect because of large pixels jumps with each mouse movement. I'll look into it, but at least in the next update, you'll be staying in one window! Cheers for the heads-up.

cyril
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2012 10:30
Quote: " Instead of turning the character by moving the mouse left and right, I think the character should point at a cursor that you can move across the screen."


Maybe its my mouse but I actually found it easy to aim at a mouse sensitivity up to 8 or 9, compared to the keyboard aim. any turn up to 90' is ok,but doing a U-turn requires more desk space than I have (So there was a lot of lift the mouse while U-turning).

I'll say have both point and rotate mouse control if you can, this one has grown one me.

In this version I notice you tweaked the weapons a bit, they feel a lot more balance in this update, the only weapon that might need a bigger drawback is the machine gun, at the moment it's the kill spee weapon, I'd say decrease the users movement speed slightly.

It would be rather cool if the person that press the trap button gets the kill points, or if they kill themselves by pressing the button they lose points. As if they were real kills.

I notice the AI reaper still waits for the blade even though the power-up make him invincible.

Other than that I believe all the other improvements are great.

Quote: "Once I spawned on the blade button which is now in front of the blade."


I spawned right in front of the reaper with no chance to escape, It's still funny to watch.
Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2012 11:15
Quote: "I'll say have both point and rotate mouse control if you can, this one has grown one me."


Gonna work on the point and shoot mechanism today. I'll then release a patch with just that in, to force everyone to try it out! If you feel you'd prefer the old mechanism after that, I'll add it in as an option.

Quote: "In this version I notice you tweaked the weapons a bit, they feel a lot more balance in this update, the only weapon that might need a bigger drawback is the machine gun, at the moment it's the kill spee weapon, I'd say decrease the users movement speed slightly."


Agreed. This is already on the todo list. I'll make each weapon have its own walk speed, with the minigun being the slowest. The unanswered question though is: should the sword man run the fastest of all, or should everyone have a chance of getting away?

Quote: "It would be rather cool if the person that press the trap button gets the kill points, or if they kill themselves by pressing the button they lose points. As if they were real kills."


Agreed too. I'll add it to the list as a lower priority item.

Quote: "I notice the AI reaper still waits for the blade even though the power-up make him invincible."


Stupid Reaper. I've also noticed that because he can continually activate the button while getting chopped up, the blade sound plays a trillion times over and over super loud, and your speakers explode. On the bug list.

Thanks for playing mate. In the next update is a Gears of War style blood border to show you're getting injured and AI also use turrets, which is very cool. So more to check out, hopefully by the end of today.

Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2012 15:17 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2012 16:31
UPDATE TIME AGAIN!

Carnage v1.04

In this update:
- Added simple circle shadows to characters
- Fixed blood and flame draw order/transparency bugs (z-order)
- Commentator now only commentates on events to do with the player, so it's less common and more relevant
- More sound bug fixes. Less sound cut outs now and less CPU drain. Problems were to do with volume calculations.
- Increased magazine capacity and weapon ammo counts for pistols, uzi and assault rifle. More time shooting and less time reloading.
- Added injury gore border, GOW style, to show your health
- Fixed AI running into saw blade bug (somewhat better)
- AI can now use turrets and own you ruthlessly
- Mouse cursor now stays in the window on dual displays
- Trialing new mouse aim control mechanism

The most important update here is the new control mechanism, as suggested by Josh. Rather than moving the mouse left and right to turn, you have a cursor and your character points at that. I feel this is much better, although people who've played the demo a lot may take a while to get used to it.

Feedback on this control mechanism would be very much appreciated!

Full download required again, due to multiple new media files in different locations:
Carnage v1.04(90 MB)

Van B
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2012 22:05 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2012 22:12
Straffe! - in the name of all that is pure and good on this earth, please add in A/D straffe controls. To me it just feels like every gunfight is 50/50, I can't really get an upper hand against more than one enemy. Straffing will make it more generic, and AI will be trickier, but the game has a good feel to it, more tactical than the usual zombie top down shooter game we've seen a million times. I love the aiming round corners... but the AI isn't ideal for that. I mean, if the enemies slowed down, maybe hid more, then it would be more practical to sneak around, shooting round corners like a boss. I'd probably prefer it if the game was like that, dark, stealthy, sneaky as hell - maybe a Hostel/SAW vibe to the place. I could go on for ages about this, so let me ramble in a code snippet...



Some general observations...

* I can never tell which character I am, some sort of indicator would be cool.
* Straffe keys please
* If Q and E for leaning is no good, why not make them roll out of the way instead, for dodging rockets and suchlike.
* Chainsaw looks a bit chunky, maybe some sharp teeth would be cool.
* It can be a little sluggish to aim when an enemy passes you and you have to do a 180, maybe firing at close distance should be a melee attack - that'd probably save my skin.
* I'm not a cop - sometimes I like to hold my gun sideways
* Forgot one... When I kill an enemy, I'd really like the option of looting his corpse for money, guns, etc - might add some risk factor as well, do you chance it and go for the dead guys gun.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Fallout
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 09:40 Edited at: 24th Feb 2012 09:42
Cheers for the feedback Van. It's amazing, I've been sitting here making this game for months, and nobody has once said "YOU NEED STRAFE", yet I've been constantly thinking it myself. Now somebody else has finally piped up and said it, I've added it in. It does behave somewhat differently to FPS strafe, because it essentially orbits the cursor, but the controls feel more complete now.

As for the sneaking, aiming round corners, etc approach, I'm thinking this could be better sculpted when the multiplayer game comes to life. Obviously you can code AI to be all clever and sneaky, but humans will do a much better job of that. So I think with some tweaks to weapon balancing and with the right game mode, there could be a good sneaky tactical shooter in here. .e.g A game mode where damage is even higher, respawn rate is much slower, and there is an assault objective, I could imagine you'd have to work together and lean, shoot, covering fire, move etc. to win.

Quote: " I can never tell which character I am, some sort of indicator would be cool."

Hmmm. Will think about this one.

Quote: "Straffe keys please"

Done!

Quote: "If Q and E for leaning is no good, why not make them roll out of the way instead, for dodging rockets and suchlike."

I think I'll keep them in, as strafe allows a degree of dodging now, and I can't do additional animations for the demo.

Quote: "Chainsaw looks a bit chunky, maybe some sharp teeth would be cool."

Yep, I'm going to dedicate a day to remodelling the weapons. They are all super low poly clunky pieces of toilet matter that I quickly made for the original game. Agreed.

Quote: "It can be a little sluggish to aim when an enemy passes you and you have to do a 180, maybe firing at close distance should be a melee attack - that'd probably save my skin."

The has been mentioned twice. I agree, but it'd require me to get more animations made, so I think this'll be saved for the full version.

Quote: "I'm not a cop - sometimes I like to hold my gun sideways"

Including your minigun?

Quote: "Forgot one... When I kill an enemy, I'd really like the option of looting his corpse for money, guns, etc - might add some risk factor as well, do you chance it and go for the dead guys gun."

I think dead people are gonna drop their weapons. Someone else has mentioned this, so I've added it to the todo list. Hopefully that'll satisfy your pirate nature.

Thanks for your feedback mate.

Van B
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 14:31
Cool, will look forward to playing with straffing

With the holding the gun to the side, well I never liked the way guns look in top down games, guns loose all their gunnyness at that camera view. What I was thinking is maybe the dual guns could be held sideways. It's not just a gangster thing, it's more about getting the chance to see the guns properly, be able to tell what sort of guns they are, that sort of thing.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
zapakitul
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 16:55
One suggestion: Add a minimum distance from player to the crossfire! I hate having to always move it in front of the Main Character while I'm also moving him! That breaks allot of the immersion when you have to focus not only on the MC's and enemies, but also on the cross fire!

The commentary can barely be heard, it's like he is sleeping, and wakes up to talk from time to time. One should hear him! Maybe use the commentator as a guide.
Quel
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 22:10 Edited at: 24th Feb 2012 22:11
Well... i for one really like the commentator. To be honest it is the thing that makes this otherwise not over complicated (both technically and gameplay wise) game feel like it's so much more than what it really is! Just gives it so much weight if you see what i mean.

Maybe some more lines for the ending of a round would be cool, always hearing the exact same, nice, but same line again and again really started to harm the illusion. There could be many shorter ones, which would be randomly mixed up into a small speech, that way hundreds of different possibilites would exist.

Interesting idea to bring up stealth and all. First of all, because it clearly shows that the Quake era is getting too far away... and second, this is a top-down view game, the enemy fleeing/hiding all the freakin time is not fun: it's frustrating.

Yes, it was very annoying sometimes to determine which is my character.

The HUD is useless. I'm gonna be honest, i didn't really take the time to look at it, but the couple seconds i would rely on it, it just wasn't obvious and clean enough to help me in anything.

Needs seriously killer effects.

The inability to clearly target while moving exactly where you want to go is very uncomfortable. I would go with a mouse controlled scheme, where you move a crosshair around, while move with WASD. Maybe the character would keep up with the movement of the crosshair a bit delayed for realism, but not necessarily. This method what you have implemented was nice in the old GTA's, but just not suitable for this one.

I was really impressed when i saw this a while ago on your Youtube channel, and was sad that it seemed like a totally abandoned game, very happy now that you continue it, hope it gets better!

I have a question: do you achieve slow motion when dying by simply toning down the framerate?

-Mental Hybrid: A unique heavy story based shoot'em ~40% (primary project)
-CoreFleet: An underground commander unit based RTS (canned) ~15%
zapakitul
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 23:25
@Quel: Timer based movement for Slow motion! He just alters the multiplier
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 15:34
@Quel

We are going for the WSAD 8 directional movement approach. That's the next thing on the agenda, after the menus/splashes etc are all implemented. I think it'll be the most intuitive control mechanism and should work well with the mouse aim. Time will tell!

The HUD harks back to the first version about 5 years ago. It's completely obsolete now, but is being redesigned and should be in the next version.

As for the slow-mo, yes it's a half of the frame rate. Slow mos were a late addition the last time the demo was being developed for a presentation, so it's the easiest way to implement them without having to change anything. Probably took about 5 minutes to add. The full verison will be frame rate independent.

Thanks for playing.

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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 17:49 Edited at: 27th Feb 2012 17:51
Releasing a new update in a bit. Here's the menu screen. Not exactly a menu in the options sense, but more of a front end ...



There is a vid playing in the background, BF2 style. Please ignore the HUD graphics in the corners and the fact the 'DEMO' text is not in the foreground. This is a temporary vid. It'll be in the next update.

Fallout
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 18:25 Edited at: 27th Feb 2012 18:27
Carnage Demo v1.05 now available.

Download: Carnage v1.05 (110 MB)

Updates:
- Added 3,2,1,GO count down to start the game
- Added strafe support (AI don't strafe yet)
- Fixed turret exit bug (no longer get struck in the sandbags)
- Guns now dropped upon death
- Fixed sawblade sound madness when reaper stands on it
- Added front end logo, splash, menu and loading screens

Key things
The control mechanism is going to completely change again. After lots of feedback, 8 directional movement seems to be what people want. So when you press W, you run up the screen, regardless of where your crosshair is pointing. This will be in the next update, so please don't put too much thought into the controls.

Menu Screen
Some people aren't a fan of the video underlay behind the menu screen, and some are. Your thoughts on it would be much appreciated. Is it distracting? Is it messy? Or is it a cool touch, and immersive? Hate it, love it, or don't care? The video itself will be updated once I put together a new game video, and the useless GUI bits in the four corners will be removed.

Again, thanks for people's feedback so far. I think Carnage is improving with each update, thanks to your suggestions.

baxslash
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 14:13
...I spent over an hour playing this last night when I should have been working. I foresee many similar nights ahead.

I hate you for making this too fun to play... seriously. I'm not joking. As if there aren't enough addictive games out there did you REALLY have to make another one?

Damn you.

You have far too many interesting and fun ways to kill people. I implore you STOP THIS MADNESS NOW!

It's a great game.

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