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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Java and agk questions.

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sovr
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 15:45
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Hello, I am a huge java programmer and work on various java 2D/3D game applications. I heard in the newsletter that agk will be coming to java! By putting it in java do you mean having a reference jar file to add in your tier 2 java code? if not then how will it be imported into your java code? Thanks!

sov the game creator!
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baxslash
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 17:42
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I imagine it will be a reference library you can add to your project like the other native languages although no official details are available at the moment. Not sure how else it could work really.

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bjadams
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 20:04
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Last time this was discussed, TGC said that T2 C++ code will be converted to T1 basic code, then compiled into byetcode, and the java engine will interpret the AppGameKit byetcode
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baxslash
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 22:01
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Really? I must have missed that one!

Converting C++ to T1 sounds difficult. There are a lot of things C++ can do that Basic can't

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bjadams
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 22:19
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Baxslash if I stumble across the post I will put a link, but it was Lee Bamber saying to use the suggested AppGameKit flow in C++ because it will be easy to convert to T1 for platforms like Java... or something along those lines
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Greenster
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 13:03 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2012 13:04
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I hate to be controversial..again..but I highly doubt it's T2-BASIC-JAVA. The ISO spec for any given c/c++ compiler is massive, and their are literally thousands of variants of constructs for anything. Even using a lexical engine it's in the tens of thousands..

Where with T1-JAVA it's a couple hundred tops that push parameters to per-written classes and macros in Java. Which logistically is better, and is also easier to manage and debug.

It's also worth noting that all this upcoming Java tech is wrapping OpenGL and ES. This means it won't run on a lot of IGPs and mobile devices even being released in 2012.
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bjadams
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 14:42
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Greenster, so do you think T2 users will be cut out, and have to move over to T1?
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sovr
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 14:45
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True, but you could use the T1 type java language (a library you import) for the commands with the native core java language. I have built my own easy java game dev library that works with all the other java commands that is native to java. Think of the tier2 for ios devices.

sov the game creator!
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Greenster
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 17:49 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2012 17:51
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I'm only saying it's more likely it's the t1 BASIC like syntax to Java, not C/C++ to Java.

T2 users wouldn't be cut out, unless you're talking about converting your T2 code to AppGameKit BASIC which makes no sense on multiple aspects.. especially since most of the code will be out of the scope of AppGameKit macros..

It'd be crazy if TGC was making a massive decompiler like this thread suggests, and it wasn't extremely buggy..
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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 19:48
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I agree. Translating code twice to get to the desired platform sounds more than a little tricky.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Mar 2012 03:20 Edited at: 4th Mar 2012 03:20
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Really for universal cross platform support, t1 would have to be used. There's no other way it could be done. That's why I'd like to see a more comprehensive language in T1 rather than having a dumbed-down one.

darkBIT TGC Torrent Tracker / File Server - AGK Chat: #agk : irc.devhat.net
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sovr
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Posted: 4th Mar 2012 06:35
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To be trueful I just like how agk is going to java just because it will make it easier for me to make java applications On the computer. The one thing that would be cool is to have agk and lwjgl/slick working together so I can make java apps quicker. But for the post above... I agree, I like oop better than basic and agk (tier 1) needs a third party command system. Here is how it works... Tgc makes agk that has commands that run on everything... The developer add agk commands for their specific device... Is that a good idea? I think so.

sov the game creator!
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Greenster
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 11:01
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AGK T1 is like it is because of the simple fact AppGameKit is marketed to multiple demographics. A couple of which are non-programmers and small team or indy developers needing fast turn-around. If you can get the functionality you want with a fraction of the development time then AppGameKit design is working as it should.

T1->T2 is there for more flexibility without taking away from the T1 demographic. It's probably the best way you could design such a dev tool..

@sovr: I originally wanted java because of the device support. But OpenGL cut it down a lot. For example the majority of Q1 2012 mobiles won't be able to run AppGameKit based games.
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bjadams
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 11:52
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Greenster I agree, the way AppGameKit is set up, with T1 & T2 is perfect. TGC have learned from the split caused by DBpro & DarkGDK.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 16:54 Edited at: 5th Mar 2012 16:57
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I think it's great to have the option, but with java on the horizon, unless there's some technology I'm not aware of, it will be impossible to port t2 code from c++ to java platforms automagically.

The whole point of t1 is to not have to worry about portability, but they've made it so restrictive (at least as of right now), that neither t1 or t2 will be great options for game dev. T1 will be too restricted, t2 will require multiple sets of code for different platforms. Hopefully as AppGameKit matures, T1 will become more effective.

Now if we could get a code translator for T1, that would be sweet, but barring that, TGC should just open up the language a little more. Give us pointers, let us have compiled libraries so we can share code easier, and let us make some mistakes

darkBIT TGC Torrent Tracker / File Server - AGK Chat: #agk : irc.devhat.net
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bjadams
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 20:00
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Why does T2 require multiple set of code?
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Greenster
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 11:54
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You guys do know Apple devices have no Java so there will always be C++ right? I'm not even sure they're using Java on Android where it's converted to Darvik since they support only newer versions where there is C++.

Also..where&when has anything ever converted C++ to Java?
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