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DarkBASIC Discussion / Time for DarkBasic Pro or ....??

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Zaxtor99
9
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Joined: 27th Jul 2011
Location: Boise, Idaho, USA
Posted: 6th Mar 2012 05:45
Okay. I've used DarkBasic Classic to code a handful or games and projects now, but I have a problem.

DarkBasic Classic is awesome because it reminds me so much of the old Commodore 64 BASIC that I grew up with as a kid. It is obviously much more modern that that old school language and has some very easy yet powerful commands.

So it allowed me to get back into coding. And it refreshed my inspiration to code. However, with that, I find myself at a standstill. A crossroads you might say.

I was thinking seriously about moving to DarkBasic Pro. The commands and syntax look a lot different then DarkBasic Classic. So while it isn't quite as drastic as moving to a whole new language.. it does look like a lot to learn to even get to the same level I am already at with DBC.

What I want is something that gives me more power and something that doesn't require so much of an older computers resources just to run anything. Even the most simple programs in DBC seem to strain an older Pentium 4 CPU with like 512 MB or even a 1GB of ram. And I doubt that anything I could do in my DBC code would make much of a difference there.

So, I want something that will compile my code to a LOT faster executable that also won't strain a computers resources nearly as much as DBC final exe's seem to do.

I am considering just moving to C++ even though it will require more learning then DB Pro. Not to ditch DB, because I really love the program, the ease of powerful commands it offers, and all the helpful people here etc. But can someone with experience with both C++ and DBPro give me some in depth explanations of the advantages and disadvantages of both that might help enlighten me to choose one over the other?

The feedback would be much appreciated, and tbanks much!
LBFN
13
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Joined: 7th Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posted: 6th Mar 2012 06:57
I have had both for years. DBP is lightning fast compared with DBC. TBH, I hated DBP at first, as the interface just seemed so foreign to me as compared to DBC. I put it on the shelf for quite a while and finally decided to take the time to learn it. I am glad that I did. You can make really cool games with DBC, but one of the biggest advantages with DBP (in my view) is the ability to use boned animation with objects. I can create a model in Milkshape, rig and animate it and see it moving around in my games in no time - this is significant to me. Using TYPE variables is also a big one, as it makes for easier, more structured programming. It is also actively supported and there is a tremendous community out there.

I've done a little C++ coding - it is on another level above DBP in my view. I have been learning Unity3D, which seems the way to go with C++.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide.

So many games to code.......so little time.

Millenium7
15
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Joined: 13th Dec 2004
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 08:08
i'm not sure what DBC is like these days but does it still have that crappy full screen white-on-black interface filled with pictures for buttons?
I'm not sure how anyone could dislike the DBP interface, it's just like using an office program, with a proper catagorised layout and is a zillion times more intuitive, especially when using multiple windows or multiple monitors. That said I use indigo which is a 3rd party interface and more useful than the stock DBP one

I havn't used DBC for more than 8 years but I know that DBP executes and compiles much quicker than DBC, has far better 3rd party support (user made .DLL's integrate directly into the editor, that includes syntax checking and so on), much better 3D support (shaders, bone animation, shader/pixel lighting, sharper/better rendering with things such as mipmapping/AA/AF), Lightning fast 2d compared to DBC

I'm not sure what syntax difference there is but I felt right at home when moving to DBP. There are more commands, but the old ones still work
Quel
11
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Joined: 13th Mar 2009
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 11:21 Edited at: 6th Mar 2012 11:22
I just can't see why people still use the Classic version...

I used it for a year, and then immediately dropped it when i heard Pro was coming out 10 years ago.

Especially because i back then just bought the damn thing (classic) and was so disappointed it gave me nothing more than what the trial version could do.

Are people really this bored that they want to torture themselves to achieve so little. And this "little" not only involves the actual product, but the fact that it won't run on most of the systems out there today. Oh and that everything written in Classis runs so slow, no matter what computer you use...

Maybe because they aren't told that it is quite inferior, and an old product of TGC?

Not only its support should be discontinued (i guess no more patches for it, but i consider 'still selling it' support as well), also it shouldn't be on this, the official site either anymore if you ask me.

-Mental Hybrid: A unique heavy story based shoot'em ~40% (primary project)
-CoreFleet: An underground commander unit based RTS (canned) ~15%
Libervurto
14
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 7th Mar 2012 04:20
I will not hear a bad word spoken about DBC! ...because I am so ancient to be still using it that I've gone deaf
I think it's a bit cheeky that it's still sold, it should be freeware.

However, there is years of work and information in this board so it would be awful to have it all disappear.

I have recently been using DBP and it seems even more weird about things than DBC, but maybe I'm just not used to it yet.

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Millenium7
15
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Joined: 13th Dec 2004
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 09:12
Quote: "However, there is years of work and information in this board so it would be awful to have it all disappear."


DBP isn't exactly a new language, you aren't losing anything by moving to DBP and everything on this section works with it anyway. It should be moved into a 'discontinued products' section and yes made freeware as you mentioned. Hell even DBP is free (for personal use) yet DBC is still for sale?

There is nothing whatsoever to be gained from using DBC over DBP
Latch
14
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Joined: 23rd Jul 2006
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 19:42
As far as BASIC languages go, DBC is probably the only one I'll play around with - but then, I like trying to do things with it that it doesn't readily lend itself to do; which I find fun.

In saying that though, depending on your goals, it may be time to move out of BASIC altogether:

Quote: "...DBPro...So while it isn't quite as drastic as moving to a whole new language.. it does look like a lot to learn to even get to the same level I am already at with DBC "


The tricky thing with any language really is the syntax. You have to learn how to use the commands. But, if you have programming flow knowledge or understanding, then you can adapt the same principals to the new syntax. So if you moved on to C or C++ or whatever, the "one step follows the next" concept still applies. You just have to learn how to create those steps. For example:





The first code block (in DBC) is familiar and you can pretty much figure out what it does. The second code block is a little strange, but similar enough to the first that I bet you can figure out what it does. The flow and result between the two is pretty much the same, but the syntax is different.

So my suggestion, especially if you are using an older, slower computer, is to "up the ante" and learn a lower level programming language. If you can get around your own brain resisting the new syntax, you'll do just fine.

Enjoy your day.
kamac
9
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Joined: 30th Nov 2010
Location: Poland
Posted: 12th Mar 2012 22:31
If you want to just make games indie, stick to DB. If you want some more control try C++ and see if you like it.

Though, if you want to remain indie, there's no reason to go C++.

I am going to put some sample code for you, so you can see how things look with C++.


The samples will display a sprite in the left-upper corner.

DarkBASIC Pro:



C++ using SFML library (One of the easiest free graphical libs):



C++ using AGK:




See if you're ready for that. Also, where in DBPro you can do:



In C++ it can be:



Latch
14
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Joined: 23rd Jul 2006
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 20:08
Quote: "If you want to just make games indie, stick to DB. If you want some more control try C++ and see if you like it.

Though, if you want to remain indie, there's no reason to go C++."


That's true. Sticking with BASIC makes DBC transition to DBPro easier with more functionality.

Enjoy your day.
TDK
Retired Moderator
17
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Joined: 19th Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 21:17
I'm with Latch on this one. Of the two, I still prefer DBC over DBP.

No one would deny that DBP isn't the better product of the two, but DBC still has it's place - in the same way that millions of people still enjoy playing N64 games with emulators.

DBC is still the best for beginners and I think DBP has a lot of features many people (including me) have never even used.

Quote: "Are people really this bored that they want to torture themselves to achieve so little. And this "little" not only involves the actual product, but the fact that it won't run on most of the systems out there today. Oh and that everything written in Classis runs so slow, no matter what computer you use..."


Not entirely true...

You are obviously talking about the permissions problem introduced with Vista and Windows 7 - which affected many pieces of software - not just DBC. Most companies made you buy new 'Vista Compatible' versions of their software, however, for DBC it was fixed with Ron's v1.2 update, though I still use XP so I can't confirm this personally.

As for speed, a lot has to do with how it was written. Well written DBC software runs faster on newer, more powerful machines unless it has been written specifically to run at a set speed.

Also, remember that DBC-written programs will run on a wider range of machines - in particular, slower, older machines with earlier versions of DirectX than DBP requires.

Pretty much anything (note that I didn't just say anything) you can write in DBP, you can write in DBC - it's just harder. And it's that challenge that I like.

So, I want something that will compile my code to a LOT faster executable that also won't strain a computers resources nearly as much as DBC final exe's seem to do.

It really does come down to that magic word 'optimisation'. DBC has been used to write commercial software in the past so if you know what you are doing, you can always make code run faster.

TDK

http://www.computechtenerife.com
The Weeping Corpse
8
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Joined: 19th Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 00:21
What I'm doing is using DBpro to learn about directX.

My knowledge of C++ is vast but my understanding of DirectX is limited.

So......the engine I'm creating is a mixture of DBpro, which I use to actually push stuff onto the screen and an application written in C++ which is the real guts of my engine.

Each time I learn something new about DBpro I spend some time to learn how DBpro does what its doing under the hood.
Pincho Paxton
17
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Joined: 8th Dec 2002
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 00:29 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2012 00:30
Most of my DBC programs work in DBP without changing much at all. So there can't be that much difference. Oh I preferred the old editor though.. white on black.. it's ace.

Quote: "i'm not sure what DBC is like these days but does it still have that crappy full screen white-on-black interface filled with pictures for buttons?"


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