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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Will FPSC x9 games still be playable a few years from now?

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Kilgore
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 18:52
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With the directx 9c thing, will FPSC games still be playable in a few years?

I think FPSC has come on a long way and I'm guessing there are a few people out there working on games they know are going to take a year or more to finish, so is FPSC still a good idea? If you're starting a long project now, should you be looking elsewhere, or does FPSC have a long term future?
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gozzy1999
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 21:16
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yes it does because it is more than likely going to get X11 and X12 and stuff and they will work on better computers if anything it will work better

''Make sure your hands are clean before you point the finger''
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That Guy John
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 05:53 Edited at: 14th Mar 2012 05:57
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Quote: "With the directx 9c thing, will FPSC games still be playable in a few years?"


I am not sure where so many people think they are getting issues with FPSC that they think is caused by the version of Direct X they have installed.

As with most frameworks, including Direct X and .NET framework most things stay backwards compatible.

I have always kept Direct X up to date with the latest version and never get any direct problems resulting in FPSC.

If anything, I had a few issues with GPU drivers when FPSC first started using shaders. But it didn't take me long to sort it out by either fixing my driver or finding another work around.

I think where some get confused is the fact (or rumor, maybe?) that Microsoft may discontinue official support and development of the .x file format.

As for my opinion on rather or not FPSC will eventually break or suffer complete code rot because of Window OS changes in the future:

It could happen, but Lee and the other guys that are involved in the development of FPSC always seem to be on top of everything.

[Edit] Adding To:
Will games created with FPSC NOW eventually be unusable on future OS(s).. almost certainly at some point, but that is the nature of the beast.

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Soviet176
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 06:30
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I think what the OP is trying to get across is will a FPSC be acceptable to play in the future? If I am correct he means with all the advancements in technology will there be a fanbase for older style FPS's on older engines like this.


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That Guy John
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 07:45
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Acceptable: I don't see why not. The First Person Shooter game genre isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

FPSC may seem to be a few steps behind in tech in comparison to the more popular engines, but little things always make there way in, here and there.

A ball of clay is just a ball of clay until it is molded properly.

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maho76
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 10:23
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problem i see is if we cant get a way to integrate the needed dx9c-files directly into all launchers because microsoft-dx-download doesnt support the full dx9c version anymore. means with only the actual downloader fpsc-games wont work, even today, and most windows-users only use the autodownload. you cant tell your customer to google a free full9.0c.

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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 12:01
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I don't think I understand correctly. I have DX10 on my PC at home, I can download and install an FPSC game without having any issues so why would it be neccessary for a user to download dx9c in order to play a game powered by FPSC?

People may think that FPSC is "out dated" but its actually up to the game developer whether they want next gen graphics.

With a lot of hard work I believe FPSC can deliver brilliant graphics. It's about getting quality 3d modelling, texture work, sound effects and game artwork. Then improve the graphical quality even more through using shaders.

If you want your game to look good, invest time into it. The more time and effort you put into your game the better it will look.

Of course FPSC does have its limitations. To be honest, I see FPSC as a stepping stone. I'm already playing around with UDK and Unity which is light years ahead of FPSC.

If it wasn't for FPSC, I wouldn't have gotten back into 3d modelling. And scripting is super fun.

Landman

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gozzy1999
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 19:26
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Quote: "scripting is super fun"

you got that right

''Make sure your hands are clean before you point the finger''
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That Guy John
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 20:29
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Quote: "problem i see is if we cant get a way to integrate the needed dx9c-files directly"

That is what I was talking about in my first post here..
You DO NOT NEED DX9C specifically...
Have your game installer check DX version then install or prompt to install the latest Direct X.

Quote: "With a lot of hard work I believe FPSC can deliver brilliant graphics"

It's all about the artwork.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 21:21
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Quote: "Of course FPSC does have its limitations. To be honest, I see FPSC as a stepping stone. I'm already playing around with UDK and Unity which is light years ahead of FPSC."


Erm...

NO.

Having developed, shipped and / or produced games based upon FPSC, Unitiy, UDK, Trinigy and Gamebryo I can tell that it depends HEAVILY on your art pipeline. As for UDK - serious game developement without access to the source is a urban myth.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 07:27
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@Ertlov, of course a good game depends on your art pipeline. Im not saying that FPSC cant be used to produce a quality game. Im just saying that the capabilities of UDK and Unity are greater than FPSC. And if I stand to be corrected, please point out a AAA title game built with FPSC?

Landman

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That Guy John
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 07:35
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Oh boy.. its turning into another one of "those" threads..

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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 07:57
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@That Guy John, haha. Im not fan of "those" threads either. We'll avoid that.

The bottom line is FPSC rocks and with Lee and the team behind it. There is a great future for it.

Landman

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maho76
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 11:33 Edited at: 15th Mar 2012 11:36
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Quote: "You DO NOT NEED DX9C specifically...
Have your game installer check DX version then install or prompt to install the latest Direct X."


and there is the problem. when your installer check dx-version and download from official microsoft-source via downloader/updater (automated by win7), fpsc and your game wont work because not all of the dx9.0c-components needed are in the new dx-loaders anymore. they cut down to only the neccessary parts to run dx11, same for dx10 for fpsc x10.
i installed a new machine a few months before, so i could check.
most of us have more or less actual games on our machines wich mostly install a complete version of 9c, so you wont recognize.
but every win-user should be able to run your games with only autodownloader (most "normal" people today even dont know what dx is).
as far as i know dx9c is not free, so you would have to buy the license even if you want to give away your game for free.

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Kilgore
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 12:27
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Quote: "as far as i know dx9c is not free, so you would have to buy the license even if you want to give away your game for free"


Yes, thanks, this is the problem I meant. It would be helpful to know what TGC's position and intention is for the future of FPSC for those who are beginning a lengthy development. Do they see it as a legacy product etc?

Regarding the discussion about dated graphics etc, I don't think that will ever be too much of a problem. There is a market out there for older style games and non-AAA graphics...we can see this due to the success of more and more indie games and of GOG.
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mnemonic
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 14:08
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What!? Is dx9c not free?

Quote: "
as far as i know dx9c is not free, so you would have to buy the license even if you want to give away your game for free.
"


Did I miss anything?? What do you mean? If the customer has the DX9 runtime installed they can run the game. And they can download that for free. Maybe you're talking about the redist. version? The one that you can ship with your games?

Concerning the rendering/graphics capabilities of DX9 it's brilliant. Many HQ commersial games uses DX9C and the graphics are stunning. FPSC uses lower res textures than FPSCX10, if I remember correctly. But I believe that FPSCX9 could be able to show awesome graphics if the core instructed it do so.

Will FPSC games be playable in the future? I think so, both in regarding runability and attraction. Take Super Mario for example: If that game used advanced shaders and lightmapping it would look less appealing, that is what I think anyway. The game is supposed to look more 'quite' and 'cartoonish' and people still love it, all from children, teens to adults.

Let's just hope that microsoft never abandons all support for dx9, both for players and developers If they ever do it, it will only happen when they realize that noone's using it anymore.

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xplosys
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 14:23
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Concerning DX9 and the DirectX end-user redistributable that developers can include with their product, that's exactly what it's made for... to redistribute with your game. That said, you will probably want to create or buy an installer that checks for and offers to update DirectX if needed. The redistributable even has a "run hidden" option so your end user doesn't have to be consulted. Just have it run/update the end-user system as a part of your install.

As for FPSC being usable in the future, that's up to Microsoft. Just as old DOS games don't run on current Windows versions, at some point FPSC games will no longer run on Windows. While I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, it is inevitable. Of course, someone will always find a way to make it work.


Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 14:38
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Quote: "As for FPSC being usable in the future, that's up to Microsoft. Just as old DOS games don't run on current Windows versions, at some point FPSC games will no longer run on Windows. While I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, it is inevitable. Of course, someone will always find a way to make it work."


Agreed! As Microsoft evolves so will software developers.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 15:05
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Quote: "to be corrected, please point out a AAA title game built with FPSC?"


There is none yet. Some of Wolfs games are partially close to AAA quality, but they arent sold or marketed as such.
On the other hand, there is not a single AAA game developed with UDK without the developer ending up licensing the full Unreal 3 prior to release.

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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 15th Mar 2012 18:09
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Quote: " On the other hand, there is not a single AAA game developed with UDK without the developer ending up licensing the full Unreal 3 prior to release."


True... and that costs quite a lot of money.

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maho76
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Posted: 16th Mar 2012 10:09
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great info, brian, i didnt know that, thank you.

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Kilgore
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Posted: 26th Mar 2012 13:47
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For those that have used Unity, is it really any better (apart from a few graphical options) than FPSC? I'm asking out of interest because I've never tried it and the Unity games I've seen (non-pro ones) don't look any better than FPSC, and I'd guess FPSC is quicker and easier to use. What's your experience with it been like compared to FPSC?

UDK is not much of an option for a lone developer from what I've read...so FPSC is perhaps the only real alternative? Thoughts?
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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 26th Mar 2012 18:23 Edited at: 26th Mar 2012 18:29
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@Kilgore, Unity is a fantastic piece of software. With the free version you are able to compile games for Windows, Mac OS and Android (until the 8th April). Your maps can have huge terrain, real time lighting, models cast shadows if they have more than one texture...

I will warn you, out of the box you won't be able to create a good game unless you have knowledge of JavaScript or C# or some version of Python that Unity supports.

I like Unity, but I love FPSC even more. FPSC may have a few glitches but the ease of use makes it a more durable software.

I believe the limitations aren't in the software but in the creators ability to utilize their imagination to overcome problems.

Landman

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michael x
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Posted: 26th Mar 2012 18:27
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this is pointless the only thing that will stop fpsc from being a Acceptable in the future is the unstable bugs it has. making harder to finish a game. the game builder is the biggest problem right now and no one seem to not notice this. I have played many of fpsc game in the wip and none of them work right.

more than what meets the eye

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Kilgore
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Posted: 27th Mar 2012 12:57
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@Landman, thanks for your info re: Unity and I'm currently learning C#. FPSC seems like a great alternative for getting a prototype together...I might end up transferring it over to Unity in the end, depending on where TGC go with FPSC longer term.
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