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Work in Progress / Carnage Game Show

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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 11:09
Ok, I've murkified the toxic waste, as suggested by all. Looks more like a sludge now. The only thing I'll have to do now is add it to the light mapping routine and add the light mapping to the shader. Before it was really translucent, so it picked up the lighting beneath which was good enough, but now it's really murky it needs its own lighting to look right.

Steam particle effects next.



Dimis
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 11:23 Edited at: 17th Aug 2012 11:24
Oops you are right. Green is generally used to color dangerous liquids and usually toxic liquids.
I guess playing Mortal Kombat games made me think that acid is green. The green stuff at the DeadPool stage was always called acid.



Anyway I think that it looks like sludge because of the color. Make it more vivid. And probably add some kind of bobble particles. Something like that.



Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 16:06
The acid looks good, but it would be nice to have some dead gunge floating on it. Somebody's flesh turned into soup of the day.

Fallout
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 16:33 Edited at: 17th Aug 2012 17:15
Ok, point taken on the acid trap. I will now officially refer to it as the toxic trap, and anyone who refers to it as the acid trap in future will be given a serial code which turns their character into a drunk when they buy the game.

Green toxic trap now looks like this:


Interesting things to note about GDK shaders combined with Dark Lights is:

1. The first texture you reference with "texture Texture1 <string Name=""; >;" is actually the texture at texture stage 1. The second texture you reference is the texture at stage 0! UV coords are around the right way. So basically ...

Texture definition 1 = Stage 1 with UV coords in TEXCOORD0
Texture definition 2 = Stage 0 with UV coords in TEXCOORD1

That did my head in for a while.

There also seems to be some shader optimisation which further makes things properly confusing. If you have 4 texture stages, but do not use the third texture (stage 2) in the final colour output in your shader, then the fourth texture (stage 3) falls back into position 2!! Nightmare ...

Here's an example of a pixel shader code path:


I'm sampling from 4 textures, but only using baseColor for the final output. This will not work as expected? Why, because by only using baseColor, some sort of internal optimisation is working out I'm only using 1 sampler in the final result. So it ignores textures 2,3,4 and just leave me with texture1, which in this instance is the lightmap!

I can infact change baseColor for any other of those colour samples and it will always draw the light map because it will optimise the shader down to the first sampler only (The lightmap one!).

If I then change the output to:
return float4(baseColor*lightMapColor,1);

This will work, because the internal optimisation strips out unused textures 3 and 4, leaving me with 1 and 2 which are my base and lightmap. However, if I multiply baseColor with waveColor, it will look exactly the same. waveColor, from sampler 4 will be optimised out leaving me with just baseColor and lightmapColor.

Talk about proper head scratching territory.

Edit: @Pincho - If all goes to plan, playing the game the TOXIC pits will slowly fill up with heads and legs at various stages of TOXIC death.

Dimis
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 17:04
Ok the color is perfect, now it looks toxic.
Quote: "I will now officially refer to it as the toxic trap, and anyone who refers to it as the acid trap in future will be given a serial code which turns their character into a drunk when they buy the game."

I think I found one who did.
Quote: "Edit: @Pincho - If all goes to plan, playing the game the acid pits will slowly fill up with heads and legs at various stages of acid death."




Fallout
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 17:08 Edited at: 17th Aug 2012 17:11
Damn you Dimis! Edited all evidence away. Thou art a liar!!

Btw, thought I'd post this up as a mild interest for those who may read this thread but aren't working on a complex game themselves. This is how much work I've put into Carnage so far and how complex it's become. Screenshots taken from scrolling down the Solution Explorer.



JLMoondog
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 18:50 Edited at: 17th Aug 2012 18:52
I know people tend to associate green blobish liquid with danger, but I have to say that I like Fallout's approach.

I think to make it 'look' more dangerous you should add a type of mist particles that float on the surface with a similar color. It would give it the impression that it's hot and toxic.

Edit: Blah! I didn't realize there was a page 6.

Also that list, dang...mind blown.

Fallout
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 19:02
Acid generally looks like water IRL. I suppose that's what I was going for, with a green tinge, but people will expect something with more bang. So I'm gonna stick with the cliche green toxic waste. Here's an update with the shadow mapping and opacity layer. The refracted translucency is turned right down now, but I may crank it up again because it's a shame to render a whole refraction camera and then not be able to see it. Also atmospheric smog added.



TheComet
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Posted: 17th Aug 2012 20:05
That is a LOT better!

TheComet

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Matty H
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Posted: 18th Aug 2012 14:04
Looking good Fallout. I like the solution explorer screenie, good to see you are keeping organised

Dar13
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Posted: 18th Aug 2012 18:50 Edited at: 18th Aug 2012 18:52
Are the particles really all that different that they require totally different compilation units?! If you could cut the amount of source in half by packaging some of the similar effects(explosion with fire,bloodfly with bloodspray,etc) I think it might help with compilation times.

Also, globals? In C++?

Looks great, especially the toxic trap.

EDIT: Tried to do a strikethrough of "acid" but apparently Apollo doesn't like Unicode characters.

Fallout
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Posted: 18th Aug 2012 21:42
Yes the particles are very different. They vary in physics implementation, lighting method, collision, movement, scaling, fading etc. It would be possible to have all the particles in one class with lots of different branches and methods but I think it's much better to have them all in separate classes that inherit from a Particle base class.

Globals have their place imo. For example, pretty much the entire program wants to know about the timer class, so I think it's easiest to have it in a namespace they can all access, rather than passing it around.

Dar13
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Posted: 19th Aug 2012 16:36
Quote: "Yes the particles are very different. They vary in physics implementation, lighting method, collision, movement, scaling, fading etc. It would be possible to have all the particles in one class with lots of different branches and methods but I think it's much better to have them all in separate classes that inherit from a Particle base class."

I agree, having them all in one class would be too hard. I was thinking more along the lines of moving some of the subclasses into shared files, so that the compiler(and more importantly, the linker) wouldn't have so many compilation units to deal with.

Quick example:
a.h/.cpp:

b.h/.cpp:

c.h/.cpp:


To prevent having so many different compilation units, I could do this:
a.h/cpp:

bc.h/cpp:



Quote: "Globals have their place imo. For example, pretty much the entire program wants to know about the timer class, so I think it's easiest to have it in a namespace they can all access, rather than passing it around."

True true, I use singletons on occasion myself.

RickV
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Posted: 31st Aug 2012 19:09
Hi,

If you have a steam account can you vote for Carnage?

VOTE CARNAGE!

Rick

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Posted: 1st Sep 2012 04:06
Voted. And awesome.

Fallout
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 09:44
Cheers Rick. Added to front post.

Fuzz
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 13:14
Voted and favourited!

Fallout
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 15:10
Thanks Fuzz. I'm working on new vids for another campaign at the moment, so hopefully will be improving the visuals and demos on the Greenlight page over the next few weeks and getting more support.

littleGg6
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 15:47
Will there be an update to the demo at any point because some of these features look great and it doesn't look like it would be too hard to add in quick glimpses

Great game, looking better with every post and hope that it goes into multilayer w/ steam because that would just be awesome!
JLMoondog
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 17:01
Voted! Though I don't understand the % vote system, unless it requires an insane amount of votes to fill.

Good luck to Rick and Mr. K! I've always loved this game wip.

Andrew_Neale
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 19:08
From Steam FAQ:

Quote: "
How many votes does a game need to get selected?

It's going to change during the first few days/weeks since we don't know what kind of traffic to expect. Part of the drive for this system is the need for customers to help us prioritize which games they want to see made available on Steam. So the specific number of votes doesn't matter as much as relative interest in a game compared with other games in Steam Greenlight.
We're going to be reaching out to developers as we see their games getting traction regardless of whether they have achieved a specific number of votes or are sitting 1st or 2nd place at any given time. We are most interested in finding the games that people want, not requiring them to always hit a specific number of votes.
"


Based on this, I've only been giving ratings to projects that looked genuinely promising rather than 'meh, looks ok i guess'.

You've got a rating from me. Good luck!


Previously TEH_CODERER.
Fallout
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 19:10 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2012 19:12
Quote: "Will there be an update to the demo at any point because some of these features look great and it doesn't look like it would be too hard to add in quick glimpses

Great game, looking better with every post and hope that it goes into multilayer w/ steam because that would just be awesome!"


Think of the demo as a prototype. We developed old code to create that for the Intel Level Up compo. After that we made the decision to develop it as a full game. What I've been posting in this thread is brand new, written in GDK instead of DBPro, so none of the old code or media is being used.

We'll probably post up a demo when we get a single player deathmatch experience working, but right now there's no AI and lots of other missing features. It's a brand new project!

Quote: "Voted! Though I don't understand the % vote system, unless it requires an insane amount of votes to fill.

Good luck to Rick and Mr. K! I've always loved this game wip."


Thanks bud. No idea how the voting system works either. My guess is it's the %age of all the votes cast, so we currently have less than 0%. My guess would be, when Steam choose to fund/release a game, it'll drop off the Greenlight system and that percentage of votes will be freed up again. Some games have several thousand likes and Carnage only has approx 60 atm, so basically, 0% would be accurate in this case, but that'll change slowly over time.

That's guess work though!

Edit: Thanks Andrew!

Matty H
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 19:15
I will vote as soon as it will let me

Can't wait to play this, I love cap the flag games. You may just succeed in getting me away from my consoles

Chris Ritchie
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Posted: 4th Sep 2012 20:13
Voted looking forward to seeing this on Steam.


Lead programmer ULIDIA
Fallout
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Posted: 4th Sep 2012 20:35
Thanks gents. Newest vid is up. Doesn't look like much but it represents the beginnings of proper deaths (moving from player to rag doll), plus per limb damage model (not finished) and the start of AI code. And to put it simply, it gives you an idea of how people will die when they get shot!



Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 5th Sep 2012 03:40
it all looks good to me. and, i've greenlighted the project, as well. good luck, there!

all the attention to detail is appreciated, fallout. and i'm sure you'll run a fine-tooth comb through it all. with that, i'm making sure you've noticed that some of the ricochet particles are returning toward the player? as if some shots came from the opposite side of the target, i mean (1:05, 1:16 on the most-recent, most-appreciated vid ).

while i'm being picky... can we speed up the crotch-slicer so it spins, say, 100 times faster? right now, it appears to offer a slower blunt-force impact vs proper ginsu slicing of said body-region. maybe it's just the video capture?

good stuff. always looking forward to updates, here

Virtual Nomad @ California, USA . DBPro V7.7
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Fallout
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Posted: 5th Sep 2012 10:26
There are definitely some rough edges Mr VM. I won't deny that. So many tweaks to do when the game hits the polishing stage.

I looked at those timings and see what you mean. Those smoke/dust/ricochet particles are probably not coming from the floor. The angles suggest they're being generated after collision with something else. One to investigate.

As for the crotch slicer trap, that too will need some tweaks. The whole model will be redesigned at some point, so then I will do my best to make it look as nasty as possible. Once I have sorted the remaining rag doll work, you'll get to see some proper crotch slicer damage.

Thanks for the feedback and the Greenlight vote mate.

Fallout
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Posted: 6th Sep 2012 10:58
BULLET MOVEMENT STYLE

Your thoughts would be appreciate on this:

Someone on steam greenlight suggested I use ray cast bullets rather than objects to improve realism (and performance, though it will make no difference to performance). Now personally I like the slower moving bullet streaks, because I think it adds more of an element of skill. You have to aim ahead a little bit, so longer range kills require you to lead the target, which I think is more fun. This is why I always do my bullets this way. But rather than forget the idea, I thought I'd ask you lot.

What do you think would be better?
- Current bullet style, with fast moving bullets that require you to lead the target over a longer distance.
- Raycast bullets, which instantly traverse the whole arena, perhaps leaving a streak type effect, but effectively travel at more realistic speeds.

Any thoughts appreciated!

TheComet
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Posted: 6th Sep 2012 15:15
Current bullet style! But, speed them up a notch, I think they are currently a little slow to be a bullet.

Do the grenades blow limbs off and send them flying all over the place? Will they?

TheComet

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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Sep 2012 15:29 Edited at: 6th Sep 2012 15:33
Yes mate. Everything will causes dimemberment, but I've not really got into that yet. It's quite a large challenge and will require some cunning coding and lots of rag doll configurations. It's likely I'll be looking at that soon though, as once I've finished the flame thrower deaths, I'll have finished making all the weapons kill stuff, and I'll have to move onto making them kill stuff properly!

Thanks for the feedback on the bullets too. I think I agree.

Update though! Grenades now kill stuff! I've also reduced the gravity a little for more entertaining physics events, plus increased physics stability. It still feels realistic, yet everything plays much better.

Grenades deaths! Worth noting that grenades will feature shrapnel particles once I've made them, which will do a lot more damage and result in more random kills (i.e. bits of shrapnel bouncing off walls and skewering people round corners etc)

A few other things to mention:
- Shockwave line of sight hasn't been implemented yet, so at one point the grenade kills me through a wall. Fixed later.
- The grenade launcher is a skill weapon, but it will need tweaks. On the second kill when I can't hit the player, this is because I am a pleb. The grenade launcher is not a point and click kill. You have to lob it right, and take into account walls, obstacles and of course friendlies you don't want to kill!



Matty H
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Posted: 6th Sep 2012 16:09
Best video yet. I lol'ed when the guy fell into the acid, how very unfortunate for him

I would say real bullets would be generally considered better and more realistic than raycasts, but then it should be about what is more fun. I would agree that if bullet speed is too noticeable then speed them up a little until it's only noticeable at large distances only.

TheComet
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Posted: 6th Sep 2012 23:27
Hehe, wow, I think I know which weapon I'm going to be using. Make sure to add a "sshhhhsssssss" sound when people fall int into the acid. Great work as always mate!

I have two more questions:

1) Are there any rocket launchers?
2) Do you think you'll be implementing the distortion effect or not?

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
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Posted: 7th Sep 2012 00:51
Thanks for the comments gents.

@TheComet

Loads of weapons. I'm planning over 20, including a rocket launcher, and a rocket turret for some proper incendiary madness.

As for the distortion effect, I do like it mate. Cheers again for that code. I'll have a look at it again later on when the weapons are complete and I'm adding polish to the effects.

MrValentine
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Posted: 8th Sep 2012 03:01
I thought I had posted on this thread... weird... anyway Voted up on Greenlight!!!

Fallout
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Posted: 8th Sep 2012 19:00
Thanks Monsieur Valentino! Much appreciated. Flame thrower video coming early next week ...

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 9th Sep 2012 05:40
I am amazed once again Fallout! Great work, as usual.

Ron

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Posted: 11th Sep 2012 00:43
Thanks for your support Ron!

Flamethrower deaths are complete, though not really spectacular enough to make a vid just yet. Instead I'm currently working on dismemberment rag dolls. That'll be worth videoing.

Fallout
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 15:47
Thanks to a bit of bug detection from Matty, I now have the dismemberment system mostly working. I need to do a few things, such as iron out some force related bugs, decide how I'm going to deal with gore and generally polish it up, but it's working.

For the time being there are 6 body parts. Torso, head, 2 arms, 2 legs, which can all be blown off in different combos, and become their own rag dolls. So the legs and arms can still bend, plus the bone based animation is maintained. With the final model, dismemberment will include many more zones to have much more variety in gore.

Here's a quick screeny of myself blown up with the grenade launcher. After I've done the necessary improvements I'll make a kill vid.



TheComet
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 20:18
Do the limbs spurt blood? That would be a nice effect to add if you get around to it.

Looking awesome!

TheComet

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 23:58
Thanks mate. Yes they will, but currently it's not very easy to get their orientation, so I'm leaving that out for now. Matty has fixed that in the next update of Dynamix.

Here's a vid of some dismemberment. The main bug here is, when large forces are applied to low masses, such as the extremities like hands, they accelerate too quickly for the simulation. So you get a few frames where arms and legs are elongated before the simulation reins them back in. So that's the weird stretching you're seeing. I'll be working on that as I improve this stuff.



Ron Erickson
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 15:24
Great video Fallout!
I can't wait to see more!

a.k.a WOLF!
Matty H
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 17:55
Great video.

It advises in the PhysX docs that the ragdoll bone masses should not be too different. I think it said keep then within a factor of 10 of each other, I think there is a 'set mass' command.

You will be able to get bones' euler angles after the update but there may be are other ways to achieve the effect you want with blood.

Since you can now retrieve the bones world matrix you may be able to use dbSetObjectWorldMatrix() on the blood object to the same as the bone. It depends how your blood system works. This would be faster than converting to euler as that is a pretty hefty calculation

I could provide you with that hefty calculation now if you like?

Fallout
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 18:36
Thanks chaps.

Matty, so far I've fixed the issue by avoiding applying forces to the light weight bones, but I'll give that set mass command a try. That makes sense and will give me more flexibility. Good to know!

As for the blood angles, you could be right with pinching the bone matrix. That could in fact give me the perfect rotation in most scenarios and may work with what I'm doing. The particle emitter isn't actually an object though, but it could work. Otherwise I'll happily wait for your update and use the build in command to get the rotation. It may be heavy weight, but it should only be called a few times per second, each time a blood particle is created, so shouldn't be a problem!

Fallout
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 16:47
Newest vid. Sorted out some speed issues, some gore issues, some physics issues, more characters in, sorted the rag doll burning. Also adjusted the lighting of the level to make it a bit more moody and show off the normal mapping and lighting effects better. 'Carnage' is starting to make a lot more sense!



JLMoondog
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 17:28
Honestly? Not enough blood.

Fallout
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 17:51
Actually mate, it's amazing how fast those 400 blood pool particles get used up. You see them vanish in the first vid almost as soon as they splat down. I need to do some tweakage or put a note on the game at the start "Please do not blow up 8 people simultaneously, because we don't have enough blood for that."

JLMoondog
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 21:46
Hmm, maybe make it so that when 20-30 blood splats hit the floor in an area you replace them with a larger splat texture? That way you free up the last 30 blood particles for future carnage.

Fallout
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 22:17
Actually, that's not a bad idea. I hand't got round to thinking about optimisations yet, but that would make the most sense. I could just do a proximity check and not create the blood splat at all if it overlaps another one too much. The main wastage comes from wounds dumping a jet of blood onto the same bit of floor and many splats over lapping. Good shout.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 22:48
Yes yes!! More blood!

Dimis
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 00:43
Just a quick thought, maybe adding more limbs to the blood particles could help? You could make the extra limbs visible when the blood drops hit the ground. That way you will not have to add more particles, but still you will increase the total amount on screen.


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