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Geek Culture / Do microprocessors use redundant transistors?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Mar 2012 02:25
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Seeing as transistors are so incredibly small and there are so many on one microprocessor (or any very large scale integration IC for that matter) i can imagine that no IC has every single one of its transistors working properly. Im wondering, are transistors actually groups of two or more transistors connected such that if one fails the group of transistors will still function as a transistor? I can only imagine that that is how CPU manufacturing yield is not incredibly low... For example, a transistor in the ALU fails, and it would normally cripple the chip but there are other transistors to take the place of the one that failed? Is that right?

Thanks for answers!

Learn lessons from your own repeated pressing of the Y key.~~DBD79
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DeadTomGC
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Posted: 30th Mar 2012 02:36 Edited at: 5th May 2012 18:35
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Well, I am studying electrical engineering in college right now, and I have heard that there is quite a bit of redundancy, but I don't think that its always possible for the chip to have duplicates of certain transistors.

Something else I have heard is that people are working on getting better backup systems for if transistors fail. So, I am not totally sure whats standard for large chips.


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Mar 2012 02:54
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Interesting! Thanks for your reply!

Learn lessons from your own repeated pressing of the Y key.~~DBD79
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Nateholio
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Posted: 4th May 2012 09:43
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I've been browsing your posts DBD79 and like them! A bit of hardware in the mix....

DeadTom is right, there is a certain level of redundancy built into some commercial grade chips. Also, very common in the 80s and 90s was offering two levels of something like a processor. For example, the 486 had an on-chip FPU. Chips which had a good FPU were sold as full 486s (486DX) while chips with defective FPUs were sold as 486SX. Intel would just disable the defective FPU and sell it on the cheap.

For some military and space-grade chips the redundancy can (and must) be very high. So obviously there would be a higher transistor count than normal, in addition to manufacturing processes such as silicon-on-sapphire.

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TheComet
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Posted: 4th May 2012 19:12
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From my understanding ICs don't have any "backup" transistors. At least all MCUs I've faced in my life haven't had any. I'll have to ask an expert at work, so I'll get back to you with a full explanation.

Generally what I've heard is that if one fails, the entire chip is useless. If that's true then that goes to show how precise CPU manufacturing has become. 731'000'000 transistors with a 45 nm architecture and none fail? Slap my MOSFET and call me a Triac.

TheComet


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 5th May 2012 00:17
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Quote: "You could always just email each other or use a chat program..."
Thank you! ill have to look at yours!
Also what you said makes a lot of sense!

@Thecomet
Quote: " I'll have to ask an expert at work, so I'll get back to you with a full explanation"
It would be very cool if you could do that!

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DeadTomGC
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Posted: 5th May 2012 18:35
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Quote: "Slap my MOSFET and call me a Triac."


You made that up?


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TheComet
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Posted: 5th May 2012 19:21
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Quote: "You made that up?"


Yep. I've been trying to introduce some electronics humor at work, but it hasn't really been working out at all. I've just been classified as being "weird".

TheComet


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Nateholio
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Posted: 5th May 2012 20:59
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Quote: "Slap my MOSFET and call me a Triac."


I'm bipolar

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 5th May 2012 21:20
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Quote: "I've just been classified as being "weird". "
They are just jealous of your good sense of humour.

wë¡·sEæ
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DeadTomGC
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Posted: 5th May 2012 22:36
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Quote: "I've just been classified as being "weird"."

and look where weird AL is.

Quote: "I'm bipolar"

Ok, so, the humor here has a few key flaws, but the most glaring is the fact that your being bipolar does not affect his MOSFET at all.


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Nateholio
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Posted: 5th May 2012 22:53
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Quote: "your being bipolar does not affect his MOSFET at all"


Haha.

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TheComet
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Posted: 7th May 2012 15:02
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Just talked with an electronic engineer about this, and he says they don't use reduntant transistors. If one of the transistors fail to work, the entire chip is discarded.

TheComet


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th May 2012 17:20
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Just goes to show how precise this tech is nowadays.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 8th May 2012 01:10
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That is remarkable. Thanks for asking!

wë¡·sEæ
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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th May 2012 07:25
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I thought this was going to be about graphene.

WARNING: The above comment may contain sarcasm.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 8th May 2012 07:30
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Hi! Havent seen you in a while!

wë¡·sEæ
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Nateholio
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Posted: 8th May 2012 08:49
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Perhaps a better question is:

Do transistors use redundant microprocessors?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th May 2012 01:05
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In Soviet Russia they do.

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