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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / im not sure what i should push first and need help deciding.

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 18:31 Edited at: 15th Apr 2012 19:12
Does anyone have like 4 or 5 projects on the go like i do?

Its realy getting crazy as it seems im getting less and less time to work on them now that i have a family of my own. I know team requests are not aloud so ill stay away from that..... or do it quietly...

I need help deciding what to work on first. I should realy just work on 1 project at a time. Some people know that i have 2 main projects i have only ever released due to going back and forth too much not deciding fully what to concentrate on.

I have made in the coarse of my life 5 or 6 music editting applications. I have made 1 3d drawing application. I also have a tun of un finished games im sad to say as i am a realy smart coder but seem to never finish any of them.

I know threw the coarse of my music studies that each music application i have made has been better then the previous.
I also know that the music business side of things is a realy tuff market for any indie developer.

So this is where im stuck..

0.QmidiStudio (Discontinued)

(list starts)
1.XMidi (already in progress)

2.ModelProp (complete rewrite from current release)

3.[2.5D] Game Idea (already in progress)

http://www.smotion3d.com/downloads/25dtest.zip
4.AGK game project (already in progress)

5.My3DWorld (already in progress)



Ok so thats my current main list of things im working on. I have already cut at least 10 others from this list but cant seem to cut any further...but i realy need to stop working on so many at once as it realy feels like i will never get anything done this way. I realy like all the ideas up there and am torn on a decision of what to toss and what to concentrate on.

the my 3d world project was suppose to be the big one for the year for me....but realized part way through that coding a whole game making engine is a very large task for a single coder. I also know that if i make a music app that it will be much better then the last. Now the drawing app i know that those will get better as i go too but again is a realy tuff market for any indie developer to get into. the 2.5d engine is pritty cool....could go several directions with that.... the agk project... well lets face it that im waiting on updates on agk before i can go any further.

wow im realy stuck here....
what do you guys think i should concentrate on?

29 games
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 20:00
I must be quite lucky as I have only one major project on the go. I have lots of other ideas but I've resisted temptation to do any more than make a few notes. I think my single mindedness is down to the fact that if I don't finish my current game then there's no point starting a new one. That and the fact that if I don't make my game no one else will.

I don't know how insightful this is going to be but this is what I think.

I've never quite understood why people make game engines unless they're going to use them to make games with themselves. If you can't see yourself making games with your game engine then leave it for the time being.

I would say the same for the music and drawing apps.

So by that process I'd say make one of the games.

I suppose it would depend on what unique features your game engine, music or drawing app have that would make other people want to use them.

On a side note, if your music apps are any good for a non-muscian like myself then I would be interest in having a look at them.
Millenium7
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 20:46
I must say your apps 'look' very good, nicely structured. I'm not sure what your code is like but I tend to write very good code yet somewhat poor presentation, or rather there's a lot of genius (if I may say so myself) going on behind the scenes, but nobody can visually see or experience it. I might spend a week or 2 just working on a netcode system which operates flawlessly, but there's no game to go with it, at best there's a menu system and you can host/join and send text messages. Yet the system behind it all is already set up to handle whatever you can throw at it, the units and things just need to be 'put in' and the code will handle everything

This is perhaps my hickup, as come F5 time there's little change between what I see now, and what I saw a week ago. However there is 1 positive. My code is very good, it's almost to the point where I can copy and paste it without modifying a damn thing. I've just copied and pasted 600 lines of code from 1 project to another, trimmed some things, changed some variables and made a few minor modifications and it integrated and executed flawlessly. It's a very good foundation for almost any project I work on from now on, it handles the menu system for the entire game, from main menu, to intro videos/cutscenes, to ingame HUD's or whatever. It handles the netcode (just needs new values assigned for each specific project), it handles file loading/sorting/scripting for anything from settings to level or unit data. And it even handles some core sprites/images/music/sounds

This is the only solid advice I can think to give you. Write your code in such a way that it is adaptable to a wide variety of situations. I actually execute many functions every loop, I don't check for valid states and 'then' execute something. Rather I execute it every loop and it 'decides' if it should proceed or skip the function. My netcode for instance, all I need to do is alter a single variable to lets say 10. Even if my game runs at 1000fps it'll only send 10 packets per second to the host. It also knows if it's a host or client and will use or forward messages appropriately
SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 21:47 Edited at: 15th Apr 2012 21:48
yeah.... im just realy stuck.....

I know the music app would be realy good...but just may not have much demand for it.

I think im going to look at the 2.5d engine and music app for now.

I dont think i can choose between them so i will work on just 2 rather then 5-10 things at once.... cause lets face it, Ill never finish all 5 of those for a long time if i spread out too much.

Has anybody downloaded and tried the 2.5d program i listed above?

My idea behind that one is being in a sand box enviroment creating a game while playing it at the same time. I also have realy cool ideas for the music 1 as i plan on having it practicaly writting music for you.... or (assisting a large amount)

yeah mabey ill work on the 2 projects.... i dont want to just push them all off but mabey give 2 of them focus for now only.

well.... i just dont have a tun of time anymore either....

doh! 1s got to go

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 21:54
Quote: "Has anybody downloaded and tried the 2.5d program i listed above?

My idea behind that one is being in a sand box enviroment creating a game while playing it at the same time."


On a DBPro site you will not get people interested in a downgrade. Your target audience would therefore be offsite, so you are doing your market research in the wrong place. As for the games, well all of us will probably say "Work on the games."

SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 16th Apr 2012 01:39
how is 2.5d offsite? its still 3d but side scrolling. You oviously didnt try the test program.

Anyways....none the less i do agree with ya and will just work on a single game project first.

Thanks guys..... i think im decided..

Libervurto
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Posted: 16th Apr 2012 21:00
I'm surprised there aren't more open projects on the forums, people are too guarded with their source code. I've seen a lot of things that have died that I would like to look at the code for and maybe modify or add things to and hopefully learn something as well. I often put more effort into modifying other people's programs than my own, I suppose it is like a puzzle you have to decipher first before you can begin to add your own things, and then you have a base to work from and don't have to start from scratch..

WARNING: The above comment may contain sarcasm.
Millenium7
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Posted: 16th Apr 2012 21:26
I think the lack of code posting can also be attributed to the fact that most people only write code that fits their project. A lot of the time it can be a bit dodgy and difficult to read, let alone understand and implement into your own project. This is why I rarely post code snippets

However this is also another reason why i've switched my entire method of programming to 'modules' if you will, all that is required is an understanding of how the module works and it's parameters. And not how the guts of it work, with very little or no modification required whenever possible

Most of the time if I go looking for something such as a 'random dungeon generator' its extremely difficult to implement into my own game because I have to go through and read it, understand it and then modify it. I usually find it easier and more satisfying to just write a whole new one from scratch
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Posted: 16th Apr 2012 22:59
@SMD_3D Interactive

Just downloaded your 2.5D game but when I tried to extract the files it said there were no files to extract. Is there problem with it or is it just me?

Quote: "I must say your apps 'look' very good"


Yeah, I agree with this. I should've mentioned this earlier but I think I broke my rule of no more than three posts a night (fatigue sets in and I tend to misread / misunderstand stuff by the fourth post).

I like looking at other people's code, it's a good way of learning to code, especially if they're having a problem that needs fixing.

Quote: "Most of the time if I go looking for something such as a 'random dungeon generator' its extremely difficult to implement into my own game because I have to go through and read it, understand it and then modify it."


I think this is the idea. I don't think you're supposed to just copy and past other people's code into your own. The example is just that, an example that will hopefully explain a method of how to do something. There may be other ways of doing the same thing but not everything can be covered in examples / tutorials.

Quote: "I usually find it easier and more satisfying to just write a whole new one from scratch"


Me too.

The bit I struggle with is putting together a large program, that could have multiple menus, options for the player to choose and so on. I haven't found many examples to learn from so, for my current project, I sort of had to work it out for myself. I got something working but I'm not overly happy with it. Maybe it's just part of the learning process.
Millenium7
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Posted: 16th Apr 2012 23:38 Edited at: 16th Apr 2012 23:51
Quote: "The bit I struggle with is putting together a large program, that could have multiple menus, options for the player to choose and so on. I haven't found many examples to learn from so, for my current project, I sort of had to work it out for myself. I got something working but I'm not overly happy with it. Maybe it's just part of the learning process. "


this little problem i'm quite proud of overcoming. I actually have a menu/gui function which is called every loop and will display all relevant data as required. It branches nicely with other functions to allow things such as highlighting of text with whichever option is currently selected. Mouse/keyboard selection of items and enabling or disabling input control depending on the menu you are currently on. As I said it's called every single loop so regardless of whether you are ingame, or at the main menu, or at the options screen it will show the relevant data (or none at all)

Here's a snippet


That won't compile directly but you seem to enjoy reading over code so go nuts with it. It's not perfect and I will tweak the function to require less lines of code in each 'section' later on. For now it works fine and I have more important things to focus on
Here is it in a compiled project http://www.2shared.com/file/W6FOR_U6/Shuffle_it.html
mouse click/enter to activate selection (note that holding the mouse button or enter will not keep on 'selecting', it locks/unlocks), WASD/Arrow keys to change selection (changes colour of current selection)
Supports button repeating - and repeat delay - on most keys, but excluding others such as enter/escape. Note when entering your name, or using arrow keys/WASD you can hold buttons and they'll repeat. Though enter will NOT to prevent spamming through the menu's. The 'max players' field normally allows you to use A/D/Left/Right to change the value, however i've locked it at 2 players for this project

Oh and the multiplayer system with game lobby should work fine, just open 2 instances and join urself. Note the ping display works (host may not be visible, slight niggle i'll fix later)
And while i'm yet to apply the required tweaks to make it perfect, the menu system does indeed support multiple resolutions to an extent (game lobby is the exception atm), edit the settings.cfg file
WLGfx
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Posted: 16th Apr 2012 23:49 Edited at: 16th Apr 2012 23:50
@SMD_3D Interactive - Hey man, I can sympathise too with having a few projects on the go at the same time. I was following the QMidi project too to see how much more you could actually squeeze into it. That as well as Model Prop. Like a few on these forums, I watch them go by but don't comment. (Although I ought to more often).

Quote: "I also have a tun of un finished games im sad to say as i am a realy smart coder but seem to never finish any of them."


You need a night out and sing a bit of karaoke and get a way from it all, take a couple of days to get over it and then plan, plan, plan and then you'll have something solid that you want to finish.

It would actually be good to get a few coders, graphics artists, modellers together with too many projects on the go and, oops, again, plan out a project. "D.N.G." have done well for a long time now and sometimes I think they show a few of us up because they're not just there to create a project, but to teach along the way. If something like that was done among the "old fart programmers", AND, made to be like a teaching thingy, it would be interesting too.

For that, Obese87 does deserve his weight in praise.

There's a lot about DBP and GDK I don't know. Such things like what Green Gandalf gets upto with his shaders and amazing screenshots he posts. Matty's DX programming. Neuro Fuzzy's maffamafatics which befuddles me lots. Seppukas un-godly patience and strange picture. (I oughta start a separate thread to thank all these people and the many more from these forums). I'd throw in my help as a teaching aid too, if I knew where to start.

I'd like to know how to use that GUI that you use, whichever one it is, and then try and figure out how I can transfer the info from the GUI's (using Winapi) straight to DBP if it is compatible.

Man, it may be about time you shouted out for a "TEAM" request, you've more than proved yourself and you know enough people on here to know who would be good enough to join in on a "FUN" - "FIRST" project...

I'll keep watching...

EDIT: ^1st point proved... GUI help... You're one of the few that can help.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 16:07
Quote: "Just downloaded your 2.5D game but when I tried to extract the files it said there were no files to extract. Is there problem with it or is it just me?"


Works for me.....very odd.

I guess i keep alot of my source code locked up.... Most people would probably have trouble decifering what i coda as 99% is just off the top of my head. I rarely plan things on paper... it just shoots from my head streight to the keyboard.

mabey model prop would be a very good candidate for an open source as i have it a tad better organized then my other stuff. I guess the 2.5d is a very good candidate as well.

here is the thread i originaly posted my video from playing around on the 2.5d engine.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=194541&b=1

the only difference is that it runs alot faster then it did in that video now.

This is probably the better one to make a team effort or open source anyways...

TheComet
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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 17:03
@ SMD_3D Interactive

Having more than 2 projects kills all of them. It's happened to me a lot. My tip is you really just pick one of them, open up a spreadsheet and list very minor things you could do to improve the program. Then you just start doing that list. Works like wonders!

Quote: "I'm surprised there aren't more open projects on the forums, people are too guarded with their source code. I've seen a lot of things that have died that I would like to look at the code for and maybe modify or add things to and hopefully learn something as well. I often put more effort into modifying other people's programs than my own, I suppose it is like a puzzle you have to decipher first before you can begin to add your own things, and then you have a base to work from and don't have to start from scratch.."


If one of those projects happens to be mine, please mention and I'll make a thread.

TheComet

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Posted: 17th Apr 2012 23:29
I still can't open the zip 2.5D zip file. I'm just using whatever comes with windows to extract the files and get these error messages.

Windows XP "no files to extract"
Windows 7 "Please insert the last disk of the Multi-Volume set and click OK to continue"

Should I be using another program to extract the files with? I might ask the IT guy at work, seeing as he's got nothing better to do.

I had a look at the video on your other thread, it looks really interesting. I actually think this would make a good open project as you have the hub of the idea which allows people hang their own games on it (which I'm guessing was your intention). I think it's got a lot of pontential for a variety of game ideas and styles. Also, if you think the code is a bit messy, maybe someone else will knock it into shape and make it more presentable.

@Millenium7

Thanks for posting your code and it nicely illustrates why people should post code. I haven't quite figured out what it's all doing yet but what struck me first was general general coding style was different to mine. You have quite long single line IF statements whereas I favour multiline / nested IF...ENDIF statements. I don't know which is better, it's just differnt so makes me think about why I do things the way I do them. Then the smaller things got me interested. The ZONE commands are something I've never seen before and I've only just downloaded IanM's pluggins so your code prompted me to look at the help files. I then noticed the "keycheck" function you're using which is something I don't use. I tend to have that sort of thing in with the main code where buttons are being pushed. I've never thought to have a function to deal with it. I find it intereting the way people solve the same problems but in different ways.

The only thing I would criticise is the lack of commenting. I think this is the key to making code understandable to others and not necessarily the coding style itself. If I post any code I tend to comment it quite heavily, especially if I'm posting code because someone needs help, explaing what each section or even line is actually doing. In my own project I tend to put a brief single line explanation above each block of code to explain what it's doing but not necessarily how it's doing it.

Back to the topic, having seen the video, I definitely think SMD_3D Interactive sould finish the 2.5D game.
SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 18th Apr 2012 03:48 Edited at: 18th Apr 2012 04:10
Im kinda wondering with the 2.5d if i should go that other half demension to get depth out of it as well.

With this style of game engine it uses square math collision and could easily be adopted to go that other demension.

I however do like the side scroll aspect to it.

Ok this is what ill do. i will post the source for the 2.5 d so someone else can play around with it. It was originaly intended to have 5000x2500 tiles buffered in 3d....wich is a realy dang huge map.

Odd that the zip files not worken for ya.... oh i remember microsoft did another update that encodes zip files unreadable if there is an exe inside. if you click on the zip file and then properties it will allow you to change the security on it.

It will have an option to unblock it....same goes for rars i think...

Anyways im going to build on the same idea but see if i can go the other direction with it as well wich should make it very interesting.

I will make the 2.5d more presentable and then post it.
Quote: "@ 29 games
On a side note, if your music apps are any good for a non-muscian like myself then I would be interest in having a look at them. "

Qmidi studio is realy easy to use for non musicians as i am not 1 either but have made some good tunes with it.

click on my banner and on the homepage or forum you can download qmidistudio for free (its free...just a big download but worth it)


Quote: "from wlgfx's post
EDIT: ^1st point proved... GUI help... You're one of the few that can help.
"


Do you mean help using Blue Gui? I guess i am fairly good with it and know some extra tricks on the side that make it work better for my needs.

I was actualy going to start looking at bbb-gui as it looks like it may be showing some extra edge on blue gui with mabey more features.

But again sometimes its hard to learn new things when you are good and fast with what you already know.... so i will probably just stay with blue for now.

Id be glad to help others out with blue since the author has practicaly abandoned it... last time i asked him a question i got a 3 month later responce...lol

SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 18th Apr 2012 04:31 Edited at: 18th Apr 2012 06:46
ok here is the 2.5d declaired as open source...have fun changing it around and making something of it

Needed:
-ians matrix dlls installed
-blue gui user keys punched in (yes i erased mine to Startblue "user","code") so put your code in
-a 3 button mouse with a scroll wheel for block editting
-enhancement pack (for ogg vorbis support)

I wrote all the instructions to display right on the screen and just remember the dbp window needs focus to operate properly.

edit: oh yeah! and you will find that i set it up very easy to add more images to the edit list so you could add alot more types of image blocks to it. You can also modify the code to a much bigger edit area but for now this one is set to 500x250. The collision math needs some tweaking aswell!

Odly to say but i only worked on this engine on 3 weekends total....and have not touched it till today.

SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 18th Apr 2012 07:13 Edited at: 18th Apr 2012 07:14
Quote: "Man, it may be about time you shouted out for a "TEAM" request, you've more than proved yourself and you know enough people on here to know who would be good enough to join in on a "FUN" - "FIRST" project...

I'll keep watching... "


I'll make a thread on my forum (click on banner) so i dont get into trouble here with it.

Just send me an email letting me know that your not a spam bot and i will sign ya up to post in my forum if you or anybody is interested in working with me on a project.

Millenium7
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Posted: 18th Apr 2012 09:40 Edited at: 18th Apr 2012 09:41
Quote: "The only thing I would criticise is the lack of commenting. I think this is the key to making code understandable to others and not necessarily the coding style itself. If I post any code I tend to comment it quite heavily, especially if I'm posting code because someone needs help, explaing what each section or even line is actually doing. In my own project I tend to put a brief single line explanation above each block of code to explain what it's doing but not necessarily how it's doing it."


I rarely comment my own code and thus another reason why I rarely post anything. I only comment things such as
MenuSelection()
// 0 = current menu
// 1 = current selection within menu
// 9 = previous menu
// 10 = maximum entries within menu

I don't comment that it is a string and needs to be called with 'val' or what anything else does because I understand it. And if my goal were to publish this I would certainly comment it better. My point though is most people on here don't write generalised or moduled code. My keycheck function is a module, it can accessed at any point in time by multiple functions and it does what it should, It locks a key after it's pressed, and has a built in delay and repeat timer, independent of any other section of code/timers. It would be suitable for post here, a lot of my other functions are not commented or condensed enough to make it easy to understand

As for the menu system yes I use way too many IF statements and multiple sections of code. I've since shortened and refined it greatly. As I said though it does it's job and I have other things to work on so I left it as it was
Here's a more updated version (still uses the other functions posted above)



I still have a few ideas to simplify it even further and remove as much duplicate code as possible. The updated one uses the new SetMenu function when changing menu's, it essentially 'prepares' the Menu function to display a fixed number of items with text in them. Individual parameters such as what happens when you click on those items, happen within the sub sections inside Menu, such as 'if = "main"' or 'if = "ipaddress"'
There are 2 examples above, the first is the 'main' section which is very general, it shows a title bar and 4 clickable options. Option 1 (singleplayer) is a dummy atm. Options2/3 change the menu to a different section (host or join) and thus call the SetMenu function to prepare it. Option4 exits the program. These could do anything I just put the code inside each sub section, under each option
Upon next sync assuming the player clicked 'join' it will update certain variables, so that when the Menu function is called it will now change the title bar, show 5 options instead of 4, and update the text within each. It will now skip over the 'if = main' part and instead go to 'if = join', allowing new options for button
In the 'if = ipaddress' example I posted above, it gives a bit more control. The menu function will always place X number of sprites in predetermined positions depending on the resolution, and accordingly place text and zones within them.
I can however take manual control of these by specifying them within each 'if = XXXX' of the Menu function
In the case of the 'ipaddress' subsection, it moves button1/sprite2 to the center of screen, so that it will not be displayed top left.
Additionally it doesn't use the predetermined MenuText() variable as this does NOT update unless called by SetMenu(), instead it uses it's own strings which are updated every time the Menu() function is called (in this case, when you are typing in an IP address, I want it to update and show in realtime, not only after you press 'enter'

Basically the menu allows default positioning for when you don't need anything specific. It allows full control and fine tuning within each sub catagory. It also does not lose any data when changing between menu's. This makes it suitable for use in almost any area. I can be ingame and hit the 'escape' key and it'll bring up a default menu, upon pressing escape again it returns to the ingame GUI. Of course the ingame GUI has almost everything located within the sub catagory to allow custom placement of each and every graphic and text
SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 19th Apr 2012 18:28
Did anyone download the source? did it work?

2 posts up....

SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 4th May 2012 07:05
Ok well now that im definetly decided i thought id share a video of my progress on the original game engine used in the 2.5d demo. Now i've switched over to 3rd person view over head and this game engine is going to work very well i think.

I even coded water (beta) but still balances out

anyways check the video out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHkjQ-cjRro

Mage
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Posted: 4th May 2012 08:07
If that were a finished game I'd seriously die of exhaustion from playing too long.

That looks like it could become criminally addictive.

chafari
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Posted: 4th May 2012 14:50
Hi there.

@SMD_3D Interactive

Quote: "Does anyone have like 4 or 5 projects on the go like i do?"


I'm the same boat ...I have so many things in mind that I don't really know where to start...or what to end ....I guess like all of us, I have started so many projects that probably most of them were only for practice.I tried to test your 2.5d engine but couldn't get it start for the blue gui. I like this project, and I think lot of people probably do.

I have to rearrange all my old projects because after three month, I don't know where I have them ...too old and suffer from Alzheimer's

Cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 5th May 2012 21:43 Edited at: 5th May 2012 21:47
Quote: "If that were a finished game I'd seriously die of exhaustion from playing too long.

That looks like it could become criminally addictive.
"

Thanks...and im gunna try realy hard to have this game produce random maps/levels each time you start a new game.

I think thats what people are after these days and if multiplayer could be added after even better!

Quote: "I tried to test your 2.5d engine but couldn't get it start for the blue gui. I like this project, and I think lot of people probably do.

"

yeah blue gui needs a serial key if ya got one. you could also edit it out so its not used at all. Also thanks... me and a few guys are working on this one so it should get finished this time!

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