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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPSC X11, maybe using GDK?

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washburnrover
14
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Joined: 4th Oct 2011
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 20:37
Now, after I purchase a new PC, 2 actually (laptop + desktop), I'll be using CryEngine 3 due to it's amazing next-gen features. However, I still love the ease of use of FPSC X9, and I'm thinking of making an x11 version with modern features (if anyone knows how to use 3d sound in the x9 version i'd love to know, but it's certainly a feature on my list to include in x11)
other features I'm thinking about:
-tessellation (easy, resource-friendly way to have lots of poly's)
-real-time reflections
-built-in vehicle engine (in-engine settings to make objects into vehicles)
-Hope to have Console-support (for our friends without Gaming PC's)
-dynamic, built-in AI
-Random Environment Generation with user-input constraints
-better multiplayer support (full dynamic objects, built-in custom-class and level-up system, multiple maps, etc., oh, and co-op with AI enemies)
-Distance-based rendering (objects are saved in multiple levels of detail, then shown in coordination with their distance from the player)
-occlusion (if you can't see it, it's not there...)
-interactive water (with separate areas of water at various heights, as opposed to 1-height of water across the whole map)
-texture streaming, and other performance boosting tech
-full support (ideally) of FPSC weapons, maybe characters, maybe objects, however it'll be made to support higher-quality objects, so everything ought to be redone for it.
-Sandbox-support, alter the environments and save it
-unlimited world (level-size is expanded as far as the developer places objects in it, dynamically expanding)

Some other Game-play additions:
-swap weapons
-knife lunge (lower weapon while holding with right hand, lunge knife with left, put knife away, raise weapon)
-in-game level loading (load next level while playing the current one)
-RPG features
-online voice-chat
-realistic gameplay options (e.g. better muzzle-flash, ricochet, destructible environments, explosion cropping [explosion animations and damage is cut off instead of going through walls], post-processing like heat causing curvature of image be-hind it, real-time weather, player incoming damage direction-indicator)
-hit markers (useful in-game and for debugging for developers! )
-sound acoustics object textures (different colors on object textures indicate various materials for sound acoustics and special features like bullet penetration and environment conditions [shoot flamethrower at wood... wood catch on fire and dissolve after a while])
-lot's of other features (taking suggestions)

I'm not starting this project until the school year is over (so like late may or june), and I'll need some time to get an understanding on the structure of high-end high-performance game-engines

I've used Red-Eyes lightstorm engine for FPSC, which is coming along very nicely, and gave me some inspiration to at least try this. I'll write it with my team of about 12 developers. Idk if I should use GDK, DB Pro, maybe C++/C# (easy to export to consoles, and even those with a mac :\ ), etc.

TGC is a great community of great developers and I believe has the best introductory engines for new developers, I'd like to make the new FPSC capable of AAA-game creation by an individual or small team of developers.

any ideas? any recommendations? any legal concerns here? (idk if calling FPSC X11 is infringing on the original creators of FPSC if it would be sold on TGC's website with a portion of the sale going to TGC and/or whoever originally created FPSC, please let me know)

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
Red Eye
17
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 20:49 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2012 20:49
Quote: "I've used Red-Eyes lightstorm engine for FPSC"


May I know where you got it from? I can't remember sending/giving.

Good luck with the project .

Cheers,

washburnrover
14
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 20:54
you gave me the info for the SVN stuff a few months back, I used it (lightstorm) some, but not for quite a while. It certainly boosted the FPS, but I din't know how to actually get a game going like normal (seeing the screenshots with the shotgun)

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
Doomster
18
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Joined: 8th Nov 2007
Location: Germany
Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 21:05 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2012 21:10
You do know that DBP / DarkGDK is based upon DX9 and thus restricted to that technology and you can't create X10 or X11 games using them, without rewriting everything?

It appears like you don't really realise what kind of huge undertaking this is, when reading your "feature list" - without major programming skills you can't just wipe something like that out, especially not in a short amount of time.

Before diving into such a project, you're better off starting small and programming small games; nobody starts with a state-of-the-art engine, especially not as a beginner.

-Doomster

Red Eye
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 21:22
@washburnrover: That is strange, you don't appear in the history of RiouxSVN, but then again I may be wrong. oh well, my brain

@Doomster: Yeah, was wnodering the same thing.

Quote: "if anyone knows how to use 3d sound in the x9 version i'd love to know, "


If you are going to use x11, I hope you arent going to use xAudio, are you? So why care asking?

But to answer your question anyway, you can calculate the angle between a sound source and camera. This allows you to pan the audio (in xAudio) accordingly to the angle you received. After that you can change the volume based on the distance you are from the source.

Cheers,

washburnrover
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 21:25
@Doomster
I completely understand it sounds like a lot, don't get me wrong, I don't expect it to happen quickly, it's just something I'll attempt and certainly won't do it "from scratch", it may be all-new code, but it's going to be based on CryEngine 3, adapted for the style of editor as FPSC (oh, and I definitely would like to make it a real-time editor ). I have lots of friends who do lots of programming, and I have some secret techniques that will certainly make it "possible" it might just take a while

Just a little background story of mine:

I did major improvements to Windows 8 by submitting a patch that fixed a bug which prevented Autodesk Software (yes, all of their software) from installing on Windows 8, it allowed it to install (not an OS requirement issue), but the installers always hit an error causing the install to fail, and soon after blue-screening your PC. I submitted the patch (based on windows 7) which Microsoft then distributed that patch to all Windows 8 updates.

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
washburnrover
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 21:31
@Red Eye
sorry i wrote my message to doomster before you posted yours

and thanks on the audio tip, yeah that's how I figured i'd do it (not xAudio, but the actual calc's). And have you been disappointed by FPSC x9's audio engine too? Out of x9's issues, I think that one deserves far more attention.

I did an international award-winning sound acoustics science project last year (it won like 25 awards i think), it's definately my department to get realism in the game environment sounds... I should get on that

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
20
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Joined: 27th Mar 2006
Location: Bahrain
Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 21:38 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2012 21:38
Wow, we've got a superstar on the forum here, going from making a AAA COD-killing game to producing a AAA game engine Best of luck with this.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=194979&b=21


Official LightStorm Engine BETA Tester
/?m=forum_view&t=190541&b=21
washburnrover
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 22:35
@Marc Steene

last i checked, you need a AAA game-engine to make a COD-killing game

yes, i know i set my goals high, sometimes too high. I'll probably end up using CryEngine 3, i just want to make a similar engine with more if the mechanics of FPSC, since i don't want to just use FPSC for brainstorming...

Did you know: every COD game was made off a modified Quake 3 engine? Now look at Quake 3, now back to MW3...

Once again, I have some tricks up my sleeve, I really just wanted your guys' input on other good features to include... I understand I'm just a dreamer... But the least I can do is try, right?

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
jmtmew
16
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Joined: 18th Feb 2010
Location: Developer Hell
Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 22:44
Quote: "-tessellation (easy, resource-friendly way to have lots of poly's)
-real-time reflections
-built-in vehicle engine (in-engine settings to make objects into vehicles)
-Hope to have Console-support (for our friends without Gaming PC's)
-dynamic, built-in AI
-Random Environment Generation with user-input constraints
-better multiplayer support (full dynamic objects, built-in custom-class and level-up system, multiple maps, etc., oh, and co-op with AI enemies)
-Distance-based rendering (objects are saved in multiple levels of detail, then shown in coordination with their distance from the player)
-occlusion (if you can't see it, it's not there...)
-interactive water (with separate areas of water at various heights, as opposed to 1-height of water across the whole map)
-texture streaming, and other performance boosting tech
-full support (ideally) of FPSC weapons, maybe characters, maybe objects, however it'll be made to support higher-quality objects, so everything ought to be redone for it.
-Sandbox-support, alter the environments and save it
-unlimited world (level-size is expanded as far as the developer places objects in it, dynamically expanding)
"

Quote: ". I understand I'm just a dreamer... But the least I can do is try, right?"


You sir, are a legend

Mr Bigglesworth
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 23:53
I have seen way too many of these threads in my life
Northern
15
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Location: Brazil
Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 02:02
Hello Washburnrover,

If you do not mind I'd like to say that all or nearly all the features you have listed in your first post you can find them on CryEngine 3 or UDK ready to use. Think about this if studying all those features and know how to use each of them properly is already a lot complicated, and time consuming now imagine the stellar job and time-consuming that must be making a game engine similar to CryEngine 3 or UDK.

I wish you a good luck!

Regards,

Northern
s4real
VIP Member
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 02:41
Quote: "Did you know: every COD game was made off a modified Quake 3 engine? Now look at Quake 3, now back to MW3..."


This is not true only the first few COD used id tech3 engine and they moved over to IW engine when they released COD2 and used newer versions of this engine, they on IW engine 5.0 now.

You seem to post a lot of these threads and will be interesting what you come up with but you would def have to start from scratch to support dx11.

Plus there would be some copyright issues naming it FPSC dx11.

A lot of hard work but I wish you all the best

s4real


Pack ya games with vishnu packer its free. Vishnu game launcher is now released.
washburnrover
14
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 05:43
@jmtmew
thx, lol, they're features that are standard now, so they're easy to study

@Mr Bigglesworth
haha i understand

@Northern
yes thx, CryEngine 3 is what I plan to imitate, heck I might just make a plugin for CryEngine 3 to have a GUI similar to FPSC and have some FPSC features. Do ya' think that's possible?

@s4real
The IW engines are modified versions of the Id Tech 3 (Quake 3 engine) Infinity Ward didn't license their modification as their own engine until COD2 though, which they modified more and more.
And i think you're right about the copyright issues, I don't know yet if CryEngine 3 supports user-created plugins, I'd just love to see CryEngine 3 with FPSC's user-friendliness.
You think that's a better idea? It's certainly easier to achieve

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
Northern
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2012 07:32
Hello Washburnrover,


Quote: "yes thx, CryEngine 3 is what I plan to imitate, heck I might just make a plugin for CryEngine 3 to have a GUI similar to FPSC and have some FPSC features. Do ya' think that's possible?"


Sorry, but I cannot tell you if this is doable or not and if Crytek would allow the use of the plug-in their program.

Greetings,

Northern
Slayer267
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Location: Non of your beez wax
Posted: 25th Apr 2012 04:06
Okay, maybe we can make this a community project? I can call a guy up from Nermersys inc. to do some programming, but it will cost.

I may do my part in making music?

Your signature has been erased by a mod; it needs to be no larger than 600x120.
washburnrover
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Posted: 25th Apr 2012 05:43
@Northern
Alright thx for being honest, I'll ask the CryEngine 3 SDK forum members about that later (lol, after i get a PC that can run it of course!)

@Slayer267
Thanks for the offer, really appreciate it
However, I've decided that even though I wrote the logical algorithms for many of the features i listed already (like 2/3 maybe), this project is still to much work considering CryEngine 3 has everything you could really want in an engine. So now I think I'll figure out how to just make a custom GUI for the CryEngine 3 Editor, to make it more convenient for FPSC-users. I'd still love to tailor it to the FPSC Community's needs, so I'll keep yall posted

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...
AJ Schaeffer
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Location: Jacksonville,FL
Posted: 26th Apr 2012 04:50
Quote: "CryEngine 3 is what I plan to imitate"

Good one.
Do you know how many people it probably took to make the CryEngine?
Do you know the licensing fees for the CryEngine?

Let's look at your first post, shall we?
Quote: "I'll be using CryEngine 3"

Quote: "I'll write it with my team of about 12 developers. Idk if I should use GDK, DB Pro, maybe C++/C# (easy to export to consoles, and even those with a mac :\ ), etc."

Quote: "would be sold on TGC's website"


So what are you using? Are you gonna write it yourself, or modify CryEngine? And if you're gonna modify CryEngine there is NO WAY you will be selling it. First, you would need the cryengine source code. How will you get that? And team of about 12 developers? You don't even know how many people you will be working with? What's their experience?

Quote: "tailor it to the FPSC Community's needs"


I doubt many people have loads of cash to spend on licensing.

I'm not trying to be mean, but none of this make sense. But hey, you're like a pro, so what do I know...
Quote: "legitimately am near the point of making an FPS on par with BF3 or COD"

Quote: "I really am looking into High-End Game Development, because I'm extremely good"


Not trying to burst your dreams, but I've been down a similar path. Trying to go from a visual logic block based game maker to XNA. That didn't work too well.

So before you get these huge dreams, just sit down and think about it for a little while. Or make some progress, and prove us all wrong

Cheers

washburnrover
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 04:59
@AJ Schaeffer
yes, yes, yes... but if you'll read the posts above yours... you'll see I'd made a different decision...

also, CryEngine 3 SDK is 100% free for non-profit development, and as an independent developer can expect to pay 15-20% of your games profit (not revenue, but profit) which is amazingly cheap when you factor in all the stock materials, oh you also gotta include "CryEngine 3" on Ads and all (which in my opinion HELPS your game's attention). The $1,200,000 charge is only businesses that wish to leave out "Achieved with CryEngine 3" and that, they don't have to pay Crytek past that, blah blah, I think the only logical reasons for that option is CryTek maybe wants Infinity Ward or Dice to make one of their games with CryEngine 3, since they'd be saving money at that point

That Big Idea guy that can't find the time...

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