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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / how hard is this program to use to make a first person or even 3rd person shooter

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liljerksmerf
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Posted: 1st May 2012 01:31
I am barley starting to use fps creator but i heard that this would be way better i just wanna know from people who have used it would it be hard to get in to

gameing is a life style
Fallout
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Posted: 1st May 2012 10:42
How long is a piece of string? DBPro is a "better way" to make an FPS, but only for the serious and dedicated. If you want to just have fun and put a decent look game together, FPSC is the way to go. Learning to make a good looking FPS in DBPro, without any previous coding experience, will take months. During that time, a large proportion of it will be incredibly frustrating and even boring.

So ask yourself: do you want to make the best FPS you can make, no matter how long it takes and how frustrating/difficult it may be? (DBPro) Or do you just want to have fun making a simple FPS game? (FPSC)

Mage
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Posted: 1st May 2012 19:26 Edited at: 1st May 2012 19:27
There's more to it then just the programing. You need to also have images, objects, and sounds. So some of your time will go into creating or acquiring these resources.
For example you can get Dark Matter addons that give you this content without having to create it yourself. Although if you are talented then creating your own content while taking much more time, can yield better results.
DBP is better than FPSC in that you have more flexibility in what you can do. But FPSC is easier to make FPS games with, because it does a lot of things for you.
If you have no experience then FPSC creator is probably the better and faster option.

The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 1st May 2012 20:43 Edited at: 1st May 2012 21:52
I don't mean this to sound rude ok. Judging by your question you don't have any programming knowledge at all? (otherwise you would already know the answer).

Think of it like Lego.

FPSC is like Duplo Bricks. You fit together pre-defined pieces to create your game. (I am over simplifying that a lot).

DBPro is like Lego Mindstorms on steroids LOL. It gives you a moderately powerful 3D engine out of the box, which you can then add your own features to by writing extra code in a programming language called BASIC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC

If you have no programming knowledge it will be an up hill struggle for you but the fun is in the learning. Just don't expect to have an FPS written in a few weeks or months (or years).

Q) Do you like solving technical problems?

Q) Are you good with numbers?

Q) Do you persevere with a challenge until you win?

Q) Can you focus your attention on small isolated problems for weeks on end, while keeping your eyes fixed on the big picture?

If you can answer yes then go for it, otherwise time for a rethink.
mr Handy
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Posted: 1st May 2012 20:44 Edited at: 1st May 2012 20:44
Quote: "i just wanna know from people who have used it would it be hard to get in to"

answer:
Quote: "it would it be hard to get in to"

just add "very"

«It's the Shader, shader me this, shader me that»
Fallout
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Posted: 1st May 2012 20:54
Quote: "Q) Do you like solving technical problems?

Q) Are you good with numbers?

Q) Do you persevere with a challenge until you win?

Q) Can you focus your attention on small isolated problems for weeks on end, while keeping your eyes fixed on the big picture?"


Really good summary!

mr Handy
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Posted: 1st May 2012 21:03 Edited at: 1st May 2012 21:08
@Fallout

He forgot to mention that you additionally need to learn HLSL language to make any modern effect

edit: other cases are here, on forum: "how to add A's bump shader into B's shadows shader using C' terrain shader?!"

«It's the Shader, shader me this, shader me that»
The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 1st May 2012 21:05
@Fallout

Thanks dude, can you hazard a guess and tell me how many hours you've poured into working on Carnage?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st May 2012 21:09
Quote: "He forgot to mention that you additinally need to learn HLSL language to make any modern effect."


That just makes it sound more complicated. You don't need to learn HLSL at all.

mr Handy
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Posted: 1st May 2012 21:16
Quote: "You don't need to learn HLSL at all."


If your goal is 10 year old effects then yes, you don't need. We are talking about firs person shooter, not family quiz.

«It's the Shader, shader me this, shader me that»
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st May 2012 21:27 Edited at: 1st May 2012 21:28
Just use the effects posted on here. There is no need to frighten someone away from making a FPS, unless you are giving them a realistic idea of how hard it is, but it isn't necessary to learn the shader code.

Fallout
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Posted: 1st May 2012 22:01 Edited at: 1st May 2012 22:01
Quote: "Thanks dude, can you hazard a guess and tell me how many hours you've poured into working on Carnage?"


Actually, I can tell you pretty accurately. I've kept a time log for it, as weird as that may sound. For my own curiosity too, I'm looking back through my log files and adding it up ...

- So the original concept was back in 2008. I probably spent 40 hours making it, though wasn't keeping a log back then.
- Between Dec 08 and Apr 09, I started a log and I put in 214 hours to produce the first demo.
- Recently to enter the Intel Level Up compo, between Feb 12 - Mar 12, I went back to the game and put in approx 40 hours (no log)
- Since starting the full game in GDK and working on the level editor since mid March, I've clocked 276 hours.

Total time approx: 570 hrs, or 24 solid days. And my sore eyes confirm this.

mr Handy
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Posted: 1st May 2012 23:41
@Pincho Paxton

I just recommend to start with FPS creator instead of epic adventure of newbie to unknown result.

«It's the Shader, shader me this, shader me that»
Mage
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Posted: 2nd May 2012 05:00 Edited at: 2nd May 2012 07:01
Quote: "Total time approx: 570 hrs, or 24 solid days. And my sore eyes confirm this."


I probably got you beat there. I just mess around with DBP making a quasi 3rd/1st person shooter.

It's like Goldeneye64, except when outside of aiming mode you are 3rd person... oh just like Zelda: Ocarina of Time.



I started in 2002 with DBC and in about 2005 migrated to DBP. Development isn't at all serious and I often go long periods of time without touching it. In some cases weeks or months. It's like playing a video game, and I add little bits every now and again. I revise parts that aren't that good also. Also I learned a ton about performance optimization techniques.

Because it's so far along it's basically a full game. Sometimes I just turn it on and play for an hour or two.

I've also noticed that from playing with DBP this long, I can go back to early levels and see some of the design mistakes I made, or the massive improvements.

Character Improvements Over The Years:


In the image above you can see the first character looks butt ugly. The very first attempt at modelling from scratch with a hand painted texture. That lasted about a few days. Then I figured out how to add photographic elements into the textures to make them better. It still takes a lot of Photoshop work, but I got much much better. Also faces look kinda creepy if you just copy peoples faces, so overlapping multiple faces + a ton of Photoshopping works best.

The body starts segmented and moves into a solid flow, the face and hair get better. Clothing is completely dynamic.

I should also add, with some hypocrisy, I see a lot of 3D modelling attempts that have awful proportions like massive legs or shoulders that make the characters look cheaply made. So I always tried to make things look realistic or better.

I don't spend a lot of time on DBP but since it's been a long time I'm probably at least at 1000 hours of development time. It could even be double that.
I never included a log other than a changelog. It amazes me to look back at the big improvements that were made, like Ai, Ai pathing (so they can hunt), sound system, level transitions, scripting, etc.

I'd say at the moment I'm looking into Shader Lighting, and perhaps adding hi-poly hands to all the models.
I hope this is insightful to people.

Edit:
Oh and losing the source code to my level editor was the worst thing that ever happened. It was a page 1 rewrite of the entire editor.


danctodd
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Posted: 2nd May 2012 06:04
Basically, they are saying it isn't a easy path. You're going to need to do a lot of studying and suffer through much trial and error. But with tears, blood and sweat great things can be accomplished.

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