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FPSC Classic Product Chat / I just upgraded from v1.0 to 1.18, and now my game's frame rate is terrible....

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Dark_Scorpion
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Posted: 17th May 2012 09:06
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Due to the many bugs in FPSC version 1, as well as the inability to use Model 4 characters in my maps, I chose to upgrade to version 1.18. Now, prior to upgrading to version 1.18, my frame rate in the map I built was always around 30 fps.

Now, after upgrading to version 1.18, my frame rate has plummeted, and my character practically always moves in bullet time or antigravity. Is there a way to fix this? Why is it happening? I upgraded to version 1.18 to fix a problem, now I have a new problem and I never got a chance to fix the original problem that caused me to upgrade. At first, I thought it was my map, so I used a prefab with a low polygon count. Guess what? My character still moves in bullet time/slow motion......
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Mr Bigglesworth
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Posted: 17th May 2012 16:26
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What are your computer specs? It may be lagging because of the new graphical updates.
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Dark_Scorpion
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Posted: 18th May 2012 03:11
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My specs are:

- Alienware M11x R2
- 4 gb DDR3 ram
- Dual i3 1.2 gz processors
- Nvidia Geforce GT335 video card

My solution to the problem was to simply reinstall the older version. I retried adding the Model pack 4 character to the scene, and it finally worked.
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The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 18th May 2012 14:36
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@Dark_Scorpion
Trust me, it's a VERY bad idea to use the older versions of FPSC. Use upgrade 1.18 or 1.19, and if you have bad fps, then open setup.ini and change postprocessing=1 to postprocessing=0

-TZK


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BlackFox
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Posted: 18th May 2012 17:06 Edited at: 18th May 2012 17:41
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Quote: "Trust me, it's a VERY bad idea to use the older versions of FPSC."


Say what? That is not very sound advice. There is actually nothing wrong with some of the older versions. We use v1.17 still and never had an issue. There have been some that found certain models/model packs worked perfect with older versions.


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Anigma
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Posted: 18th May 2012 19:44
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OK, perfect example here. Here's a guy with a BEAST of a computer and FPSC is still dragging it's proverbial d*** in the dirt. Why? I'll tell you why.

I have found that by far the biggest culprit of low frame rates is entity logic. People complain and rag on the engine for this all the time, but I say no. It's not the engine's fault. It's YOURS Mr. Game Designer. If you've got 20 enemies at once just hanging out somewhere off in the distance of your map, idling and waiting for the player to eventually wander in there, then you DESERVE to have a frame rate of 9 or 10. What are you thinking, doing that?

Try writing a game in CryEngine or the UDK some time. It will do the EXACT SAME THING unless you make sure you are using your resources in the most efficient way possible. I promise you. I've seen CryEngine levels lag WORSE than FPSC simply because the programmer (me) didn't know what the frak he was doing in that engine. FPSC is no different, folks.

Here's what I do. I have one enemy that spawns at the beginning of my map. Each enemy after that spawns the next one. There's no reason to have more than maybe 2 or 3 on the screen at once and they should only be there consuming precious CPU cycles when the player is actively engaging them. Don't park 20 enemies at random spots all over your map or spawn 10 of them all at once in one room and then wonder why your frame rate took a massive dump - think like a programmer! You want FPSC to do as little per frame refresh as possible without compromising the quality of your game. The less it has to do, the better your frame rate, and the better your frame rate, the better FPSC behaves.

Look for ways to make your map more efficient. V118 and v119 do alot more with each frame refresh than v100 did so you have to think like a real programmer and make sure your game is only doing what is needed during each one of those cycles. Spawn only what is needed for that part of the map at that time. Don't be afraid to go in and hack and slash those FPI scripts to the bare bones (back up the old ones first of course). Use as few dynamic entities and lights as you can possibly get away with. I think once you made your maps more efficient you'll find v119 is MUCH better than v100, by far.

It compiled! Ship it!
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bruce3371
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Posted: 18th May 2012 21:17
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Another little tip I read somewhere; switch off physics on all entities that DON'T need to interact with the player in any way. For example, static entities like girders, steps, rails etc etc.

Only have physics switched on for things that the player can move or pick up, like ammo, weapons, crates, or puzzle elements etc.

That way, the engine only has to calculate physics for things it really needs to...

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Anigma
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Posted: 18th May 2012 21:35
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Quote: "Another little tip I read somewhere; switch off physics on all entities that DON'T need to interact with the player in any way. For example, static entities like girders, steps, rails etc etc.

Only have physics switched on for things that the player can move or pick up, like ammo, weapons, crates, or puzzle elements etc.

That way, the engine only has to calculate physics for things it really needs to..."


Hmmm... Actually I don't think it matters for static entities. When you build your gam (or test it) FPSC compiles all the static objects (including segments) into one massive DBO/DBU pair and they become part of the level geometry. I always make sure the only dynamic entities on the map are those that the player needs to interact with or see. Everything else is static.

It compiled! Ship it!
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bruce3371
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Posted: 18th May 2012 23:49
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Either way, you don't need physics switched on for entities that the player doesn't need to interact with...

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Teabone
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Posted: 19th May 2012 00:05
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Changing entities that are dynamic (static turned off) to static entities seems to help a lot. Things like chairs, tables, boxes and such.

I'm not sure if this is true but this is something I've always done since the beginning. I always start building my level from the top left of the screen working my way down to the right. Not sure if this helps at all with the scan processing? Just an old habit I've always been doing for all kinds of game editors.

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The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 19th May 2012 03:58
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@BlackFox
Yeah, I guess I should've worded that a little differently, in truth I meant anything below 1.15.

-TZK


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BlackFox
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Posted: 19th May 2012 05:38 Edited at: 19th May 2012 05:46
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Quote: "in truth I meant anything below 1.15"


I would recommend v1.17 minimum. In v1.16, there was an issue where you could not build past the 5 levels if you had a 6+ level game. It was fixed for v1.17, so I would recommend that myself.

In addition to the suggestions by my counterparts, there is something that also causes lag regardless of what version you run. If you have a segment room you are building on layer 19, the roof would be on layer 20, which does not actually exist, since layers are 0 to 19. The same goes for models that rise up through multiple layers. If you have a tall entity and the very top hits layer 20, it will cause lag as well. You need to be aware of what layer you are building on, and ensure you won't hit the non-existent layer 20.


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Dar13
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Posted: 19th May 2012 07:13
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When upgrading from very old to very new releases(v1.0 -> v1.10+) you need to make a new .fpm file for your map. You have to do this because FPSC doesn't have perfect backwards-compatibility between versions(actually it has pretty bad backwards-compatibility for map files in particular) and that's true even between v1.14 to v1.19 or something similar.

So try recreating your maps from scratch in v1.19 and see if there is any change.

Quote: "I have found that by far the biggest culprit of low frame rates is entity logic. People complain and rag on the engine for this all the time, but I say no."

I say yes when I have *zero* enemies and *zero* scripted entities beyond a door or two and the entity logic bar is maxed and my CPU is at 99%. There is a major bottleneck somewhere, and it isn't the overload of scripted entities or enemies. It's gotten progressively worse from around V114 onwards.

Either the entity logic bar is broken, or the entity logic system is broken.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 19th May 2012 07:48
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Quote: "I say yes when I have *zero* enemies and *zero* scripted entities beyond a door or two and the entity logic bar is maxed"


I agree, you don't have to very much in the level at all before the bar is at max.

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
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The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 19th May 2012 08:01
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I am currently making updaters that fix your maps. People will just have to wait and see if I'm successful.

-TZK


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The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 19th May 2012 09:23 Edited at: 19th May 2012 09:24
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Here you go guys, test this on some of your maps, turns out that some of the main reasons that I've ever lagged on FPSC is because of outdated maps!

FPSC-MapUpdate.zip attached.

https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2351393

NOTE: This is beta software

-TZK


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BlackFox
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Posted: 19th May 2012 16:00
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Perhaps you could explain what your beta software does exactly. This way people know exactly what they are running and why.


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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 20th May 2012 03:06
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postprocessing=1 to postprocessing=0 is sound advice,I tryed it and now I am getting 70 frames per sec to the other that was 4 to 5.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
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The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 20th May 2012 03:54
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@BlackFox
It doesn't do too much, it extracts the specified map, replaces the header and configuration with the v119 one, and defrags the map.

-TZK


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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 21st May 2012 01:38
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Quote: "Dual i3 1.2 gz processors"

Isn't that really slow for a processor in an alienware?

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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Leon Kennedy
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Posted: 21st May 2012 02:46
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I'm running FPSC on a crappy laptop. When I turned physics off and postprocessing=0, I got about 60 fps with a medium-sized map. The big key in this, though, is to make all entities that you do not need to interact with static, and to only spawn enemies in places that you need them instead of having them run all over the place until you show up.

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In memory of Nanee. 9/1/1993 - 5/16/2009. Rest in Peace, little girl.
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electric chihuahua
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Posted: 25th May 2012 22:31
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Hi Everyone!

This seems the spot to ask a couple of questions. First, I have been here since the early adopter FPSCreator and have seen some fantastic changes and inspiring user made mods etc since it first came out.
Every summer while my kids are out of school I try my hand at making a game. My ancient computer will no longer handle FPSCreator. What is the best Desktop PC I can get to run FPSCreator in the $500 to $700? Also, what is the best most stable verion that I should use? I have read many times that newer machines are struggling as much as some of the older ones running FPSCreator.

Not trying to hijack the thread. It seemed to dovetail with what the topic was. Thanks for any help!

Clark
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Dark_Scorpion
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Posted: 27th May 2012 14:42
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electric chihuahua, I recommend the Alienware X51 desk top. It is small, portable, and packs quite a punch. Here are its specs

-i7 processor
- 8 gigs of RAM
Nvidia Geforce GTX 555 with one gig of ram

You can get it for about $700
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Dark_Scorpion
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Posted: 29th May 2012 07:37
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Dar13, I don't want to recreate my maps in version 1.19; I want to use the same maps I designed in the original version. You say FPS creator is bad about backwards compatibility? It sure is, actually, the software is bad about a lot of things. The last time I upgraded to 1.19, it messed up my project entirely, not enthusiastic about doing it again. I may use that version for my next map though.
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Dark_Scorpion
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Posted: 29th May 2012 11:57
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[The Zombie Killer] I appreciate your advice. I upgraded to 1.19, and changed post processing just as you said. Now my frame rate is a smooth 40+! What I did was, I reinstalled 1.19 on my older computer, rather than my Alienware. I've finished two maps in version 1.0 and I don't want to mess those up, so I reinstalled FPS creator on my older machine, and I will use it from now on to build maps. Thanks!
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Dar13
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Posted: 30th May 2012 00:36
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Quote: "Dar13, I don't want to recreate my maps in version 1.19; I want to use the same maps I designed in the original version."

I'm just letting you know what's worked for me and a few others on the forum. If you don't want to recreate it, that's your prerogative.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 30th May 2012 03:01
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Quote: "When upgrading from very old to very new releases(v1.0 -> v1.10+) you need to make a new .fpm file for your map. You have to do this because FPSC doesn't have perfect backwards-compatibility between versions(actually it has pretty bad backwards-compatibility for map files in particular) and that's true even between v1.14 to v1.19 or something similar."


Quote: "Quote: "Dar13, I don't want to recreate my maps in version 1.19; I want to use the same maps I designed in the original version.""


Quote: "I'm just letting you know what's worked for me and a few others on the forum. If you don't want to recreate it, that's your prerogative."


Dar13 nailed it on the head exactly. FPSC fails big time when it comes to forward-backward compatibility. We can speak from personal experience, having released many developments where we had to start them over because of upgrading from one version to another.

If you make a map in an old version, and it works in the latest version, I say best of luck. You may not encounter any errors at the start, but eventually they will surface. There may be some media that suddenly looks like garbage, is either white or black, or animations don't work as they should, etc.

We have built levels in an older version (v1.16), used them in newer versions (v1.17+) and encountered no errors until the final build and test of the entire game. Only designing and building a complete game from start to finish using one version (currently in v1.17) the entire time yielded a positive product error free.


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
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electric chihuahua
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Posted: 30th May 2012 16:28
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Hi Dark Scorpion,


Thanks for your suggestion on the Alienware. I'll look into it. What version of FPSCreator have you settled on? I had been running version 1.9 on my old laptop. It was lacking features but upgrading to a later version made it unusable. My laptop barely met specs before.

I think I am going to try 1.17 that Blackfox is using. Sounds pretty stable.
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midget overlord
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Posted: 30th May 2012 21:55
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Just wondering, what exactly does postprocessing=1 do vs. postprocessing=0? It has to be doing something pretty big to allow such a big jump in framerate.
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