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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPSC for quality commercial games?

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TIMON
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 16:29
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Hi,

So very simply my question is destinated to professionals who have been using FPSC since long time, if someone (like me ) has FPSC + almost all of the official model packs (excpet for some MPs ) can I ALONE realize a commercial project which can make me money? I have almost finished learning FPSC it is very easy to use comparing to other game engines, I have Unity too it is nice but the problem that you have to script to program your gameplay, so Unity for me stays an engine to make free indie little projects for my own amusement not destinated for commercial selling. But with FPSC you can do many many things in a little amount of time, thanks to intelligent building blocks to create game levels, script-free game creation, especially when you have besides the official model packs to make your gameplay more rich, and let you add all those ready-to-use elements, which you can ever imagine, to your game world (like MP 54, 63...ect).

So would you encourage me to think about making a commercial project, creating its own website, and when it is finished in the future my dreamings, about selling it and earning money, could be really true? do you think that it is a good idea for a lazy gaming nerd like me to start making some money while being entertained using FPSC engine

PS: Don't worry I don't mean by making a quality game is to make a game like Max Payne 3 or DOOM 3 Iam not newbie in the gaming world/creation so I'am really looking forward to hear some interesting answers from you

Thanks
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Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 16:35
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Quote: "I have Unity too it is nice but the problem that you have to script to program your gameplay, "


This is true too for FPSC if you want to make a unique, quality game. You'll need to learn the FPI language (very easy). When you get a hold of that, you can make a game worth selling


Official LightStorm Engine BETA Tester
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TIMON
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 16:44 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 16:45
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Quote: "This is true too for FPSC if you want to make a unique, quality game. You'll need to learn the FPI language (very easy). When you get a hold of that, you can make a game worth selling "


I know what you mean but in Unity you have to script the very basic gameplay (like opening a door, using keys, pickups...ect) while in FPSC it is already-scripted, but yes you can learn FPI to do some more advanced stuff which stays an option (maybe)!! honestly Iam not a big fan of programming so I try always to avoid it for example now with the latest model pack 63 you can make explosions with very ease just add the explosion marker in your map and wahooo
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Ertlov
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 18:11
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As you already told, you can`t make a Max Payne 3.

You can make a game in the same GFX quality league as Doom 3, perhaps even something better if you got the assets at hand. Metro Theater assets are in all respective categories better than extracted Doom 3 assets, you can compare that pretty good. (We could now talk about the dynamic lighting, but even that CAN be done).
In Terms of visual quality, you can get something out of the engine that is at least at par with Fallout 3 and New vegas.
In terms of gameplay quality, you can get something out like Amnesia or (other sider of the First person universe) Metro.

But all those statements do only apply if you are willing to script yourself, to tweak and retexture and to a stick to SMALL environments.

As the engine has no assets stream pipeline, you have to fit every single level into 1.8 GB (better 1.4-1.5) of memory.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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maho76
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 18:14 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 18:18
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Quote: "I know what you mean but in Unity you have to script the very basic gameplay (like opening a door, using keys, pickups...ect) while in FPSC it is already-scripted"


yes, right, thats what fpsc is made for. going through the basics in a very short amount of time. helps to get bigger things done with a smaller amount of team-members... or solo, wich isnt possible in other engines where you will run from update to update (especially something graphic fixiated like unity/udk a.s.o.) and dont get anything bigger finished in time simply because of a lack of hands.^^

but think of it yourself: what amount of money you would give away for a stockbuild title with only basic gameplay, not that good graphics and really bad sound? right, not that much.

to get something big you have to do the same as with every other engine: customize everything possible, even the code itself.
you save time with the basic scripts and the overall easy language and some basic models, but you have to learn scripting, 3d-compo, texturing, sound engeneering and all the other stuff too to get something special that is worth paying money for.

its still all about the artists.

i think if you are a solo dev, stay with this and try your best building the pictures out of your mind. when you can manage to do a dev with a medium sized team of specialists, go to the "big" engines.

one of the few commercial devs on fpsc is Ertlov. he can state some real insights if its possible or not to get something into a state where publishing is worth it when thinking of earning money with it. well, he is cheating a bit using a real special open franchise with a special type of fanbase... but nevertheless ... have to go... playing the flute...


EDIT: arrrgh, you beat me, ivan.^^

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TIMON
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 19:15 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 19:15
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Quote: "i think if you are a solo dev, stay with this and try your best building the pictures out of your mind. when you can manage to do a dev with a medium sized team of specialists, go to the "big" engines."


Yes maybe you are right about this, for me as solo dev FPSC rocks
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Ertlov
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 00:24
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Quote: "well, he is cheating a bit using a real special open franchise with a special type of fanbase..."


True on that. However, Into the Dark moves a little bit away from HPL - but of course the necronomicon is still inside

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 00:31
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@TIMON

Quote: "Don't worry I don't mean by making a quality game is to make a game like Max Payne 3 or DOOM 3"


To put thing into context here, I did the 1st level of DOOM 3 in FPSC 5 years ago. This was a lifetime before Bond1 released all the new bump / specular shaders and post processing was added to the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3QQmr-j8Q4

I was also using a very average spec PC with FPSC before it had any real performance updates and a video recorder hence the lag!

If you put the time in now with all the latest shaders in FPSC you could get something very close to DOOM 3. I wouldn't compare it with Max Payne 3 because thats 3rd person and FPSC has never claimed to do that.

Here is a more recent video I did with more shaders to give you an idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ljsRTMyZ7g&list=UUAWoTN7AJ4sSKs9zwiQUCbQ&index=2&feature=plcp

I've not used FPSC since V118 so there might be better examples out there now.

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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 01:11
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I still maintain no matter the quality, although I think one should get the best quality they can out of FPSC, it is the game play that matters the most. I speak from the experience of watching my Grand-kids play games. Some of the ones they like the best have very low quality graphics and lighting. In fact the lighting is just plain or default if you will.

I have mentioned this in past posts on various threads but there have never been any response to it as people still wanted to dis FPSC. I think one can make a commercial game with FPSC. I have made educational games that have been sold and used in the local schools. I haven't gone further than local. I believe the game I'm working on now can be sold as an Indy game and quality of graphics and lighting are somewhat secondary but I look at them after I complete the actual game-play for a level.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
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rolfy
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 01:52 Edited at: 6th Jun 2012 02:24
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Although FPSC has its limitations its still an amazing bit of software for game creation, there is nothing quite like it out there.
Everybody will have their own approach to designing their game depending on their own interests, expectations and skills.
Personally I prefer to design the environment first, staying aware that with every drop in frame rate I am losing space for gameplay. But its each to his own and only through using it for a time do you get an idea of what you can get away with, there is no right or wrong way.
If you think FPSC is rubbish then go use UDK or Unity, those who do will soon find out that you cant just throw in the kitchen sink and it will all handle it, even the top designers know they have to work within limitations and some of these apply even to the better engines. You wont see many games created using UDK by one developer alone it takes a team to do it, FPSC is something I know that everyone can get a handle on.
If your rationale is that all games should look AAA or they aren't going to be successful then your trying to recreate the TOP games out there and that's plain daft for a single indie developer, even using the best engines available.
Even if you get a 'team' together to work on such a project using UDK or whatever what kind of skill-set do you expect them to have never mind motivation, it does happen but only if the team request comes from someone with experience and talent to get the job done, otherwise you get the blind leading the blind.

My advise to anyone contemplating a work of any substance in FPSC is use it for a year or so first so that it can work its magic, it will force you to learn new skills and your designs will benefit immensely, not to mention a large injection of humility, it kind of has that effect, or you will simply say this sucks and move on to UDK thinking that will fix everything for you. It wont.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 10:21
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Quote: "you will simply say this sucks and move on to UDK thinking that will fix everything for you. It wont."


I tried this once, hired (good) people, spent 35.000 Euros and a year of my life and came up with something that looked better (but not by far) then the best FPSC creations here while totally lacking the heart and soul I had in my FPSC projects.

So rolfy is 100% true and should be considered.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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TIMON
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 11:29
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rolfy said:
Quote: "My advise to anyone contemplating a work of any substance in FPSC is use it for a year or so first so that it can work its magic, it will force you to learn new skills and your designs will benefit immensely, not to mention a large injection of humility, it kind of has that effect, or you will simply say this sucks and move on to UDK thinking that will fix everything for you. It wont."


Yes the magic of FPSC comes with time and usage, thanks to the great community support which ensures a permanent evolving precess in features and quality, and the regular release of professional-looking model packs and add-ons, FPSC can do the job
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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 15:12 Edited at: 6th Jun 2012 15:15
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I have a very different approach to creating games (or modding) with differnt engines.

I don't think it's of any use to imagine the game one would like to build and then use up all their creative energy in trying to overcome all the limitations their choosen engine has. And EVERY engine has its limitations and severe shortcomings.

Instead one has to take advantage of the engines abilities and at the same time avoid to need a dozen workarounds for its shortcomings.

In harsh words: Every engine dictates the range of games that can be done with a fair amount of time and money. One either embraces that or wastes his time.

And no matter how that sounds now.... YES, I believe one can make a game with FPSC that is worth a $ 1.99 download on Steam.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Leongamerz
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 15:25
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Quote: "I believe one can make a game with FPSC that is worth a $ 1.99 download on Steam.
"


Wow,that's price are really cheap but if we publish our games at the Steam maybe we can get more customers.

Irradic,Poloflece,Anayar,PWP,Henry Ham,Cosmic Prophet,Wolf,KeithC,Nickydude,SceneCommander,Dark Goblin And Lee Bamber is my icon.

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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 18:15
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Do you guys think it is possible to make a GTA style game? With small level segments, no missions, constantly spawning civilians (Civilian number decreases when cops spawn), and some way to make occupied vehicles to stay with you level to level

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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maho76
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 18:36 Edited at: 6th Jun 2012 18:38
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gta - 3rd person sandbox adventure game.

fpsc - first person shooter creator.

why the heck do you guys try to do a game the whole engine is NOT mentioned for? ^^

maybe possible, but you would have to do more on tricking the engine than building the game, and it wouldnt have the right feeling because of small level-size. maybe using a cityblock as HUB and load every inside of buildings as single level, using rpg-mod and variables to keep everything together, but nevertheless i think that a good sandbox-game needs too much media for a complete loading of a level - as fpsc does - to keep up interest. its essential for a sandbox game to have BIG areals, main interest is to lure the player into the feeling that he is totally free.

Quote: "...With small level segments, no missions..."


thats definitely not a sandbox game, you cant do it without missions (how you will lead the player into something if not with missions when the whole level is available/ no red line to follow?).

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michael x
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 18:56
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@rolfy that so true. but I think anyone cant compare UDK or Unity to fpsc. I believe fpsc is in a lead of its own. that like comparing the wii to xbox and ps3. like the wii fpsc is just fun to work with. we have our bad moments with this software but its still worth using. after a wile I to stop worry about the graphic and shaders. Im know more into my level design and gameplay.

more than what meets the eye

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007
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 19:53
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Yes, as the people here said, the magic of FPSC comes with time and usage, it means, patience and perseverance.

You must need as is said, at least 1 year of hard working on FPSC, to be able to use all the features and power it has to offer.

I think you must first learn the basics of FPSC, the basic usage of the map editor, waypoints, entities, segments (just following the manual). Then you go to learn how to create your own entities, importing custom models and animations in FPSC.

But when you come to this point, is very good that you have at least a basic knowledge of 3D modeling and animation, to be able to have your unique game assets.

So after those basic steps, which you can accomplish them just by following the manual that comes with FPSC, you can go to learn FPI Scripting. When i first began to study it, i really was a little "scared" about it, i could never understand well the "state" thing, but after a time, you get it, it`s not that hard.

A good, i mean, excellent resource for learning FPI Scripting is the Official Community Guide (the 2 editions).

So whenever you learn well scripting, you can move on to another "advanced" steps, like creating you own weapons, and then you can also learn to use the Segments Editor (again it`s very good that you have a well understanding of 3d modelling).

I think if someone wants to really learn FPSC to create a very cool game on it is to prepare a kind of "study program" for himself. I have done it.

In example, i am creating a Goldeneye 007 Fan Game, based on the Nintendo Wii Version, so i played a lot this game on the emulator, i have done a kind of brainstorming, so i have maked up a list of effects and features this game has, as a way to me organize myself to know what features i can reproduce on FPSC.

The basic system of this game, the Mission Objectives, the level of difficulties, different number of achievements to accomplish according to the level of difficulty, i could reproduce this using the Model Pack 54 (Scary Thinker), off course by changing it`s scripts a lot.

And so on.

So off course, it is possible to create a very professional FPSC game.

Cheers,

007.

Goldenye 007 N64
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rolfy
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 23:03
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Quote: "but I think anyone cant compare UDK or Unity to fpsc. I believe fpsc is in a lead of its own"
I completely agree with your statement michael, the thing is everytime someone wants to rant about FPSC's shortcomings these engines are thrown up as comparison, if you take them out of the equation FPSC is an outstanding piece of software.
You could of course take the time to learn how to create your game in UDK but heres where it will get difficult, unlike FPSC where you have so much stock media and scripts already at your disposal, not to mention a very simple easy to learn scripting language, you are left to concentrate on whatever area you want to learn.
The problem with complex engines where you have to learn everything leaves you flapping around in every direction unsure which to tackle first, its the reason you need individuals who each have their own skills to get the job done.
I compare UDK to FPSC only in ease of use and learning curve not to mention fun and entertainment value, I dont expect to create the next COD or whatever so dont have any real need to switch over, I discovered Unreal engine long before I discovered FPSC and glad I did, it frees you up to learn at your own pace and as said forces you to think outside your own experience, if anything FPSC should be given kudos as an educational tool for game designers.
I know its not perfect and many of the gripes about its faults are valid, but I believe too much is sometimes expected from it forcing the developers at TGC to implement extras which only add to its problems and throw extra fuel on the fire for those that want to flame it.
Tgc dont try to advance this software so it can compete with UDK or Unity they do it for those who use it and I believe its not so much a business tactic as a simple labour of love for those who have stood by it and get a lot of pleasure from working with it.
Even if you dont make a commercial game with it I cant think of anything I paid so little for and still get so much use out of.
For the price of a game I got something that has engrossed me and gave me a lot to think about for six years and counting, money well spent.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
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raymondlee306
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 04:30 Edited at: 7th Jun 2012 04:33
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Quote: " I believe fpsc is in a lead of its own."


I agree as well. Every tool has it's place. I am currently working on game within my limits working by myself, within a budget, etc (about 20-30 minutes of game play) using 2 engines. UDK for the single player so I can do all the cut scenes, terrain, and such but I am still going to use FPSC as the multiplayer engine. I like the James Bond 007 style of multiplayer game play. I mean that game stole so much of my time in college it was unbelievable. And now that the stock engine has team death match it's even better. Also with FPSC there is no coding to get the computers to talk to each other (other than that nagging "waiting to join" error). As far as I know UDK only comes with Local network support, not internet play. However I have 400,000+ poly's in the scene and UDK is still running at 84 fps with V-Sync off. So there is some give and take. But using Scaleform and Adobe Flash, I can make one menu that launches the right software and maps so both engines should do their jobs (I hope...)
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michael x
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 05:16
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before fpsc i knew nothing about making video games. this software was easy to get into and learn. fpsc teach me so much over the years and learn some new tricks from other people on here by just reading there post alone. know i look at other games and see how they did it.fpsc may not be the most powerful gaming software but it is the most amazing software on here. To allow one person to make a game and save you time on all the coding stuff that's amazing. I enjoy using this software and thank people like rolfy for there amazing models and thank those who mod the software. yes I believe if fpac was to be re build and take in the best of the both wolds of fpsc x9&10 feature it be something like udk. but it will still be fpsc.I understand that people want an easy way to make AAA game but there is no easy way. it take lots of time to work on such a game. I think anyone who always want to make games but first need to learn how this is the right software to get you started. I was going to make a post on this for newbies. a great way to get an idea how to get start would be to use the stock models as a level design skill exercise. instead of trying to make a game build your level design skills. this can teach you how to place you model in a proper place. make since of your level design. this where fpsc is most useful it can allow you to get your head around on how you want to make you game. this would be good for those who want to use udk. look at wolf he now building he's modeling skills. when you lean how to script with fpsc you gain a bit of coding skills. there is a lot more to fpsc then what meets the eye.

more than what meets the eye

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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 8th Jun 2012 01:05
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Quote: "why the heck do you guys try to do a game the whole engine is NOT mentioned for? "


I can always try Unity3D. Start small and work my way up.... it is possible

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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