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Geek Culture / Lollipop Chainsaw - I Can't Believe This Game

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Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:02
Quote: "I'm surprised at how no one have gotten any deeper into how disgustingly sexist and objectifying this game is. This game is degrading women to 110%. That's one of the reasons I'm not gonna touch this even with a stick. This game is like going 20 years back in time."



Aaand I dont care. It's a game.
I want games that makes men unnaturarily biff and tough to change >: plx do it. It makes me feel weak and powerless.

Or, everytime I see a nerd in a game - making us nerds look useless, weak and powerless.

It's a game, I honestly don't care about it.



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nackidno
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:07
Pincho, you obviously didn't read the whole article, it addresses answers to exactly what you are saying, it's about the purpose of the portration and not the portration in itself.


Quik, if you don't care then that's fine. But this game is still driving things backwards instead of forward.

Nateholio
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:08
Quote: "I'm surprised at how no one have gotten any deeper into how disgustingly sexist and objectifying this game is. This game is degrading women to 110%. That's one of the reasons I'm not gonna touch this even with a stick. This game is like going 20 years back in time."



In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:13
Quote: "Quik, if you don't care then that's fine. But this game is still driving things backwards instead of forward."


how so.. it's a game - how is it driving ANYTHING backwards, it's a singular GAME - ENTERTAINMENT
in my world, atleast, entertainment shoudl not be restricted by such things as being gender offensive or anything of the like.



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Doomster
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:14 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:15
Indeed.

I never really got, how anyone could get upset by a movie, game or any other art, that portrays different people with stereotype-y behaviour for laughs.

Same with supposedly "sexist" scenes - works of fiction aren't meant to be taken seriously and whoever does take such things serious, and adapts himself to those portrayals... well, would always be influenced in some other way.

I'd say, shouting "that's sexist!", "that's so racist!" and similiar sentiments, whenever some game or movie does anything explicit is backwards - how comes that using chainsaws to murder creatures (or people in other games), is any better, than a stereotype of an Highschool Girl as a main character, that acts completely dumb and perhaps slutty? Especially, when we all know, that such persons actually exist in reality as well?

...also, why waste time on calling a small videogame sexist, when there a countless porn sites around, that would be a much better target?

Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:16
Quote: "...also, why waste time on calling a small videogame sexist, when there a countless porn sites around, that would be a much better target?"


Or, advertisement, which is maybe a closer more "real" subject, atleast imo.



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:19 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:21
If it's a 20 stone girl playing the same part is it still sexist? It's only sexist if you fancy the girl, and that means it's a fear of ones own emotions. What about a gay man playing this role? Is that sexist? Is Rocky Horror show sexist to men?

Doomster
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:20 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:21
Quote: "Or, advertisement, which is maybe a closer more "real" subject, atleast imo."

True!

All those banners with women in dessous, bikinis and other clothing that reveal skin, are definitely going to harm our kids for the rest of their lives! I don't even want to think about all those innocent boys, or grown-ups, that have to endure such sights, it's devastating!

nackidno
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:22
Entertainment and art does not live in a vacuum, it's a reflection of how things are and how the society is built. It has always been that way and it always will be. To honestly believe that entertainment is a world in itself is rather ignorant and unobservant to be honest.

And Doomster, the violence in video game is a problem and will be and has been addressed before in countless of forums in other places, but that's not the point _here_, you are dodging the central conflict and the bottom line of what I'm trying to say. Also, this is not a porn site, it's a game and honestly porn sites is not my primary arena, because I'm a gamer and male feminist, and thus I focus on games and the privileged male culture that infest almost the entirety of the gaming industry and it's consumers.

Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:23 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:23
Quote: "Entertainment and art does not live in a vacuum, it's a reflection of how things are and how the society is built. It has always been that way and it always will be. To honestly believe that entertainment is a world in itself is rather ignorant and unobservant to be honest."


I said MY world, which means how I percieve things.


Quote: "And Doomster, the violence in video game is a problem and will be and has been addressed before in countless of forums in other places"


how.. the shoe is that a problem..?



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nackidno
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:28 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:29
Quote: "I said MY world, which means how I percieve things."


You have all the rights in the world to perceive the reality around you the way you want to. But that doesn't change the fact that entertainment and art is influenced by our society and state of the world.

Quote: "how.. the shoe is that a problem..?"


There is one thing called crossing the line, and there some games out there that crosses that line (like manhunt and postal), but that's not what I'm debating, I was mainly pointing out something for my friend Doomster here, and not about to start a discussion about violence, and I like to keep it that way.

Doomster
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:29 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:38
I know that your point was solely on this matter - I just wanted to throw in, how most people that have problems with nudity and "sexistic" portrayals, for the most part, have no problem with showing off violence and letting their kids kill people in videogames, or watch how people are getting killed in movies, which is quite funny in my books.

Anyway, on top of the stereotyping and sexistic nature of certain media - please, tell me, how the average women is influenced by this game, or how this small game have any bad effects on our society, or rather, the emancipation or gaming industry? Will this game teach anyone that Highschool Girls go around on a killing spree against zombies, that they're dumb, or constantly think about their looks and boys?

I fail to see, how this game could potentially lead the gaming industry in a bad direction, when this kind of games are actually a minorty and most games portray males as aggressive, stealing, vulgar and bad people. Isn't that sexist as well? So why doesn't anyone complain about that?

Why is it alright to go on and create games that demonize Russians or portray immigrants as thugs? How is that any better?

Also, a different example on modern sexism: Why is it, that a majority of internet users mock males that enjoy "My Little Pony"? Or why is it frowned upon, when boys play with Barbies? Isn't saying: "Only young girls should enjoy these things" sexist as well?

Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:31
Quote: "There is one thing called crossing the line, and there some games out there that crosses that line (like manhunt and postal)"


Can't say I agree no. Why do we need to censor our games for the good of the customer? Shouldn't it be the customers responsibility to look stuff up first?

Why, do you feel the need of censorship in art? That kind of defeats half the purpose of art.



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:32
I think it's Zombist!

nackidno
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:38 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:39
@Doomster: I don't have a problem with nudity in itself but the portrayal of nudity and reasoning behind it, if it's of a degrading nature.

The problem is not that it will influence people in a way that they will actually believe that women are like that.. But the thing is that it's offensive against women who are to play the game, I have read countless of blog entries and I have talked to women about these kind of games, and you know what? They don't appreciate it, if games are to be a form of entertainment for the masses then the developers (and the consumers mind you) need to step back and think about one very basic thing: equality. And since this game have had such a great success commercially, there's no doubt that studios will follow the footsteps of this game's portration of women, because that's how business works, if it's successful then make more of it and this kind of commercialized sexism is not ok.

Aaaand, I'm not saying that demonizing russians and portraying immigrants as thugs are ok, I'm actually against it, you are avoiding the topic again, stay on track please.

Quote: "Can't say I agree no. Why do we need to censor our games for the good of the customer? Shouldn't it be the customers responsibility to look stuff up first?

Why, do you feel the need of censorship in art? That kind of defeats half the purpose of art."


That's a discussion we will have some other time, because it has no place here. Sorry.

Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:41 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:42
Quote: " But the thing is that it's offensive against women who are to play the game, I have read countless of blog entries and I have talked to women about these kind of games, and you know what? They don't appreciate it"


But THEY are the ones WILLINGLY BUYING IT.
how cna you see that as a problem?

If i create a vacuum cleaner, and some of my customers don't like it, i certanly don't HAVE to change it.

its always the consumers responsibility to look it up before they buy it - if they don't like a game about a "sexist" girl, THEN DON'T BLOODY BUY IT.

Quote: "hat's a discussion we will have some other time, because it has no place here. Sorry.
"


It has plenty of place here because its fully relatable to this - both this, and the whole violence thingy is you wanting to censor games.



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Doomster
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:45
So, you take offence that this game, knowingly, is targeted at males and thus features this lightly clothed protagonist, which is widely used for advertisement (what I want to say: everyone should know what to except from this game)... I really don't see a problem in this.

There have always been games and movies specially crafted for men.
The things is, there's also a vast market full with games and movies, that were done with a female audience in mind.

Should I take any offence that "Barbie's Dress Up and Pony Farm" doesn't offer male protagonists and is strictly targeted at females?

nackidno
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:48 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 23:52
No need to get offensive quik, lower your tone please.

Now, that's all about shoveling over all the responsibilities to the consumer and the gamers. So what I think you are saying is that we have no rights to actually demand change in the industry? Am I right? I think that is a pretty ignorant attitude, don't you think? And just like they have the right to portray women in a negative way, I have a right to give my opinion on it. Freedom of creativity is a given, but that give me the equal rights to criticize the art.

Quote: "It has plenty of place here because its fully relatable to this - both this, and the whole violence thingy is you wanting to censor games."


No it hasn't, because we are talking about sexism and not about violence. Thanks.

Quote: "Should I take any offence that "Barbie's Dress Up and Pony Farm" doesn't offer male protagonists and is strictly targeted at females?"


You take whatever action you want, I'm not to dictate what you are to feel about this. And those products are sexist just like "boy toys" are sexist. The choice lies within the kid whether (s)he wants to play with the doll or the car, not the commercialized product and public influence of what is "boyish" or "girlish".

This game may be targeted at males, but that doesn't justify the sexist nature of the game.

Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:51
Quote: "So what I think you are saying is that we have no rights to actually demand change in the industry? Am I right?"


Yes, because why would you

Quote: "No it hasn't, because we are talking about sexism and not about violence. Thanks."


"sigh" fine, as you wish. Why do you feel the need to censor <sexism> in games?



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nackidno
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 23:55
Quote: "Yes, because why would you"


The same reasons we wanted to stop fully rationalized racism in older television, there's your reason.

Quote: ""sigh" fine, as you wish. Why do you feel the need to censor <sexism> in games?"


It's not about censoring. It's about demanding a change in the industry for equality in games and the artform that is games.

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:00
Quote: "It's not about censoring. It's about demanding a change in the industry for equality in games and the artform that is games."


I'd say if you want equality - then we're up for a complete revamp of the industry.

Games like - warhammer 40k is "sexistic" to men - ALL men there are OVERLY musclular and I feel that's quite offensive you know?
Take ANY FPS and we need to replace the main character - and all the other ones, with "normal looking guys" - and even THAT is sexistic - because we wouldnt include any hot guys either.


what youre saying - is ignorant. seen the movie "the expendables"? or pretty much any action movie? THOSE are REALLY sexistic - to BOTH sides. Do you want to change that?
And how about those movies where the "geek" gets the hot chick? I'd say thats silly from both sides to - sexistic to the girls and degrading to the geeks - all geeks dont go around wearing glasses and looking generarily misearable so they?



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Doomster
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:02 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:12
What I'm on about - not only the females are portrayed in a sexistic way, but males just as well.

I'll just get back to movies to base an example on:

Movies for women: Half the men are selfish buttocks that lie and cheat to have sex. They treat women badly, don't care about their feelings - sex is the only thing they want. They're loud, agressive, don't care about hygiene, etc.
Most man run around with muscular arms, have a sixpack and generally look like a model for underwear.

Movies for men: Some girls tend to dress themselves in short clothes, showing off skin to attract men. Often, someone drinks too much alcohol, spaces out, would take any man home with her. Just go out with males because of his money. The important women in the plot look like models.

Both examples have something in common - they base their characters on well known stereotypes and tend to glorify a false perception of the other gender, with equally sexistic views.

So, what I'd like to know is - why is it more important to complain whenever the woman is the target of "sexism"? What's the difference to sexism towards men?

Is it that you think women still can't stand up for themselves and that a "strong" man has to come to their defense, since they'd be lost otherwise (which would be *actual* sexism)?

I personally think you're quite naive to demand that art should always be open to everyone, and that there shouldn't be any works that decided to attract just a certain group of people - which definitely wouldn't work anyway.

"Equality" seems to be the main goal you strive for - but you're missing something from the big picture here, since you only concentrate on sexism.

If you want to have equality, this isn't the sole thing that has to change - think about handicapped guys and gals - isn't it unfair to constantly show hours of sports, where only people without handicaps can participate in, in the media?

Or what's with people that suffered from earthquakes or other catastrophies and lost their family during those events - isn't it quite bad taste to shoot action movies that re-enact those tragedies?

There's so much more to inequality, than just sexism, and even that isn't restricted to just one gender.

nackidno
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:08 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:12
Quote: "I'd say if you want equality - then we're up for a complete revamp of the industry.

Games like - warhammer 40k is "sexistic" to men - ALL men there are OVERLY musclular and I feel that's quite offensive you know?
Take ANY FPS and we need to replace the main character - and all the other ones, with "normal looking guys" - and even THAT is sexistic - because we wouldnt include any hot guys either.


what youre saying - is ignorant. seen the movie "the expendables"? or pretty much any action movie? THOSE are REALLY sexistic - to BOTH sides. Do you want to change that?
And how about those movies where the "geek" gets the hot chick? I'd say thats silly from both sides to - sexistic to the girls and degrading to the geeks - all geeks dont go around wearing glasses and looking generarily misearable so they?"


The biggest difference is that women in games (especially in the kind like Lollypop) is that they are portrayed as sexual objects and/or a "prize" for the player. The thing about men in games is that they are portrayed, not as sexual objects, but as muscular heroes there to save the day, and to drive the story forward. Women almost never have this privileged place in games and that's really sad, women are almost always put on second place, as a prize, the sexy background prop, by men for the amusement of men, in their privileged male culture.

You should read the article I posted earlier, it has a lot of good stuff in it, and answers to what you were just saying

EDIT: @Doomster, the link I provided earlier (and the following articles in the same series) provides so much info and answers to what you are saying that instead of rewriting it here with my own words, I recommend you to read it through and then come back here and tell me what you think about it. (since I 100% agree with what he is writing, I don't need to write it here with my own words since he articulate my thoughts about this so elegantly already).

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:18
Quote: " is that they are portrayed as sexual objects and/or a "prize" for the player. The thing about men in games is that they are portrayed, not as sexual objects, but as muscular heroes there to save the day, and to drive the story forward."


But is it not equally as sexistic and "sterotypish"? Because it portrays how men "should" be.



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:22
Quote: "The thing about men in games is that they are portrayed, not as sexual objects, but as muscular heroes there to save the day, and to drive the story forward. "


That's sexy for women. If the man was running around screaming, that wouldn't be sexy for women. Women like the man to be the hero. Anyway, the girl is the hero in this game.

nackidno
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:23 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:25
That's not the point. Men in games are portrayed as men in default and does not go through special "treatment" because they are male characters. They get all the traits that a fleshed out character will have, the looks, the personality, the important part of the storyline, etc. Women are all about sexy sex and sexyness and eyecandy. That is the problem, because men don't go through a filter for the sole purpose of being male, females does. and that is the problem. Please read the article, it answers your questions.

Quote: "That's sexy for women. If the man was running around screaming, that wouldn't be sexy for women. Women like the man to be the hero. Anyway, the girl is the hero in this game."


That's a miconception, do you know what most female gamers like the most? Not big hunks of muscles but fleshed out personalities and interesting characters, it's not about the muscles or looks, it's about the character in themselves.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:25 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:26
The men are muscular beyond normal muscles. They have 6 packs, that's not a regular man. The article isn't reality, It could have been written by an 11 year old.

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:26
Quote: "That's a miconception, do you know what most female gamers like the most? Not big hunks of muscles but fleshed out personalities and interesting characters, it's not about the muscles or looks, it's about the character in themselves."


And I don't like a "slutty" highschool cheerleader either, point is?



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Doomster
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:27 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:31
What I find irritating is, that there's even a discussion about "sexyness" in a videogame - I certainly don't know a single person, that'd think of a fictional character within a videogame as "sexy" (except for the Tomb Raider era of the old days, which was mostly due to her being the first 'big' female character anyway - Lara Croft was the main character, with a background story, etc. by the way - so not every female character is only there for the sake of "sexyness").

Quote: "That's a miconception, do you know what most female gamers like the most"

Isn't it just as bad that you think you're able to speak on the behalf of "most female gamers"?

nackidno
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:30
There's no point in discussing this with you guys, you just don't understand the privileged male world you live in and you can't even arse yourselves to find things out and just try to understand how things work. It's really sad and I'm going to leave you to your delusional minds. I tried my best to explain how things work but you didn't understand anything. I'm out. But not defeated. Typical geek culture.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:31
Quote: "
That's a miconception, do you know what most female gamers like the most? Not big hunks of muscles but fleshed out personalities and interesting characters, it's not about the muscles or looks, it's about the character in themselves."


Men like Sonic The Hedgehog, I haven't seen a man come screaming out of the bushes yet.

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:33
Quote: "There's no point in discussing this with you guys, you just don't understand the privileged male world you live in"


Oh I do, and I am fully for Equality - I just don't think it has any place in entertainment media.



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nackidno
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:34
AAaaaaand that's the reason why I stop frequenting these kind of boards.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:38
Lara Croft was intelligent, and always wore trousers. And anyway why don't women make the games that they want us to play?

Doomster
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:41 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:48
Quote: "AAaaaaand that's the reason why I stop frequenting these kind of boards."

So, you just can't bear the thought that there are people around that don't share the same view as you and you're not tolerant enough to just acknowledge their opinion, or just ignore it completely?

You can't expect everyone to have the same beliefs, values and goals as you, nor that you can get everyone to share them by discussing these matters - you just have to deal with that.

It's just like the "My religion is better than yours. My scientific thesis is much more plausible than yours. Call of Duty is like way better than, like XYZ and the like. Like so much better, you know. Like, it's totally likeable." discussions - there's always going to be different camps out there on the vast woods, known as the internet.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:48 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:51
My thoughts are... If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Also a point to consider. A female DID voice the character. If it's degrading to them as a person, they have every chance to turn down the voice acting job. I'm sure there were female MoCap actors as well. It's generally degrading to a small group of people, but that's because they have a stick up their behind. It doesn't have to be degrading to anyone but the person who partakes in the creation or dissemination of the product. Saying a slutty woman is degrading to women as a whole is ignorant. That's like saying all black people in the US are ghetto. That's generalizing things. I know women I have the utmost respect for who's image cannot be tarnished by anything hollywood throws at me. It's because they're not degrading themselves in their daily life. People just need more common sense. The only people's image this game potentially harms are the people who made the game and the people who play it. I'm not gonna look at every high school cheerleader and say OH SHES A SLUT BECAUSE LOLLIPOP CHAINSAW PORTRAYED A HIGH SCHOOL CHEERLEADER AS A SLUT.

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Wolf
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:51 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 00:54
Quote: "There's no point in discussing this with you guys, you just don't understand the privileged male world you live in and you can't even arse yourselves to find things out and just try to understand how things work."


Yeah, YOU know it and we are all delusional

Quote: "It's really sad and I'm going to leave you to your delusional minds."


Why even bring this up then? You look a lot like a religious conspiracy nutbar with that attitude. But yeah, leave them in their delusional worlds where videogames don't matter as a mirror for society and all those poor women that will be slaves and toys to men due to attrocitys like lollypop chainsaw

Hey,we get that we live in a leftbrain-hemisphere driven, male culture and we get that women, especially in porn/action flicks are degraded as nothing but objects to posess.... we just don't take you serious because you get all worked up about such a silly videogame.


Quote: "The problem is not that it will influence people in a way that they will actually believe that women are like that.. But the thing is that it's offensive against women who are to play the game, I have read countless of blog entries and I have talked to women about these kind of games, and you know what? They don't appreciate it, if games are to be a form of entertainment for the masses then the developers (and the consumers mind you) need to step back and think about one very basic thing: equality. And since this game have had such a great success commercially, there's no doubt that studios will follow the footsteps of this game's portration of women, because that's how business works, if it's successful then make more of it and this kind of commercialized sexism is not ok."


You should really check out less mainstream pornflicks...these will give you something to get angry at

I'm however really interested in A) In what scenario do you talk to women about that? B ) why do you bother reading blog articles about this? and C) why do you even care...there are certainly bigger male / female issues in our culture than this actiongame.

Quote: "do you know what most female gamers like the most? Not big hunks of muscles but fleshed out personalities and interesting characters, it's not about the muscles or looks, it's about the character in themselves.
"


I recommend books. Videogames are in general not about any of these. Most games don't even have a talking maincharacter. Well, since you think you are some kind of insider in the world of female gaming (what ever)... let me give you what female gamers really like most: Minigames and Puzzlebrowser games. True thing... most women I know play these while only 2 actually play other videogames. Your article also presents batman and the joker as male stereotypes... thats normal.

Quote: "AAaaaaand that's the reason why I stop frequenting these kind of boards."


Yeah, I bet you get a better reaction on some militant feminism board. Hey, as far as I'm concerned you can frequent wherever you want.

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 00:53
Quote: "the joker as male stereotypes"


ALL MALE ARE CRAZY PSYCHOS <3



Whose eyes are those eyes?
nonZero
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 01:20
@nackidno: Nice troll. I think you pretty much nailed everyone but me. Oh, tks for the thread bump too XD I love seeing my threads blossom.

On the subject of politically correct, I may just add that there is no reality, merely perception. People should be equally entitled to dislike artistic expression as they should to create it. Case in point was a semi nude painting of my president, Jacob Zuma, that was taken down coza idiot protestors. It was artistic expression but the disease called pollitical correctness consumed it.

Bottom line here is that in lollypop chainsaw, the protsgonist happens to be a ditsy sexual object. That's not casting all women as that type just as kratos does not represent all men. In resident evil 3, Jill Valentine is a very strong woman, arguably smarter and a better fighter than Carlos (who relies on an assault rifle as appose to Jill being adept with the handgun).

What I am saying is that you cannot scream sexism (or any ism) if a character coincides with a stereotype. It can be seen as coincidence or a plot element. If anything, this game is empowering that type of girl because she is portrayed as a kratos-alike killing machine.

Girls and boys exist in rl that fit many stereotypes so the inclusion of this factor in a piece of artistic expression is only natural. I personally condone objectifying men and women because humans are sexual creatures. While I am not the least bit atracted to girls like lollipop chainsaw's lead, I understand that many men are and so what? Does a fictitious work harm anyone? Is one game going to upset all the rights women have worked to achieve? If games were that powerful, I'd have used them to advance my global domination agenda long ago.

I think I've said all that needs saying. We'll call it a draw, shall we? If you'd like to go on, I'll be online tomorrow. Till then, good night and happy trolling

nackidno
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 01:33
I was not trolling. Don't you ever imply such a thing again.

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 02:39
TL;DR.
Quote: "I'm surprised at how no one have gotten any deeper into how disgustingly sexist and objectifying this game is. This game is degrading women to 110%. That's one of the reasons I'm not gonna touch this even with a stick. This game is like going 20 years back in time."

I know a few women who actually wanted to play the game as soon as they saw that. I'd ask why you're offended, but that seems pointless.

Quote: "I was not trolling. Don't you ever imply such a thing again."

That's an appropriate response. /sarcasm

Cheers,
Aaron

Wolf
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 02:59
Quote: "I may just add that there is no reality, merely perception."


Thumbs up for adding at least one somewhat intelligent thing to this conversation.

Quote: "Don't you ever imply such a thing again."


Or what?

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
Nateholio
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 09:18
Quote: "I'm surprised at how no one have gotten any deeper into how disgustingly sexist and objectifying this game is. This game is degrading women to 110%. That's one of the reasons I'm not gonna touch this even with a stick. This game is like going 20 years back in time."

@Nackidno...something I forgot to add to my earlier post....

I hope you show the same outrage when females willingly "objectify" themselves...cheer, gymnastics, figure skating, ballet, &&c for starters. Tight, skimpy outfits...leg spreading...shaking their butts...and so on. Stuff I'd never let my daughter do if I had one even though I'd like to let her. Society is too obsessed with sex appeal and it shows in the outfits and routines. Women say they do these competitive things because they're fun, which they are. However, if I were to say to my daughter she couldn't do them unless she wore loose costumes, she would say she'd look stupid. Well, either you do them because they're fun or you're doing them because you also get to dress skimpy and strut in front of crowds.
Now you might say that the system is ran by men so that's why it is the way it is. Not true, I've many friends who were gymnasts and cheerleaders and it's mostly ran by women. They usually design the outfits and routines.
If you don't like the game then don't buy it. I'm certainly not. Vote with your dollars, not the wahmbulance.
Quote: "There's no point in discussing this with you guys, you just don't understand the privileged male world you live in and you can't even arse yourselves to find things out and just try to understand how things work."

Let's say there is some privileged male world for a moment. Well how did it get that way? For starters, few women I've met have the...ovaries...to stand up and fight. They deal with things they don't like as long as they can keep up with all the BS in Hollywood, moronic reality shows, slutty books and TV shows; and as long as they feel their children are "safe". Willing to keep the status quo...and that gets absolutely ZERO respect from me. Men are also like this to a point, and it's getting worse as time goes on. However, men are less likely to put up with what they don't like.
Quote: "Typical geek culture."

Typical for many yes. This game looks absolutely absurd to me. As absurd as female "armor" in games basically being nothing more than a thong and pasties. It's idiotic, but works to sell games to pimply faced horny teen boys and their adult counterparts living in their mother's basements who probably have never spoken to any women outside their family their entire life.

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
nonZero
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 10:57
Quote: "This game looks absolutely absurd to me. As absurd as female "armor" in games basically being nothing more than a thong and pasties. It's idiotic, but works to sell games to pimply faced horny teen boys and their adult counterparts living in their mother's basements who probably have never spoken to any women outside their family their entire life"

lol, I always think stuff like that too! Like how could that be comfortable to fight in? That's not very protective considering it's armor!

Quote: "I was not trolling. Don't you ever imply such a thing again."

No comeback [ic:dissapointed]
And I didn't imply it, I outright stated it.

Quote: "Typical geek culture."

Uuhh... What's the name of this board? Oh, yes, "Geek Culture"

In all serious nackidno, lighten up. This game's a parody of many stereotypes: Bimbos, hack 'n slash, zombies, high schoolers and some iline jokes. Now answer me this:
I am only really attracted to intelligent Otaku-type girls (and creepy girls too, hahaha) within the scope of the human female variety of my, erm, fetishes. Nothing is a bigger turn-on than seeing a girl at a [gaming/anime/tech]con who actually knows about [anime/games/tech]. So am I objectifying women by having this fetish?
If the game was about the "geek" girl arriving at school on her 18th and slashing zombies with a chainsaw, would that not also be objectifying women?

Why is be sexually attracted to a woman in a physical way wrong but not in an intellectual way. There are plenty of intellectual women out there who fall short in the looks department and who actually wish a man would find them sexually appealing for their face or body.

In fact, to echo my earlier post, why is objectifying anybody wrong? Men do it to women, women also do it to men. How dignified is it for a man to dance around completely naked (but for a bow-tie) at a bacheloret party while a bunch of rowdy women drink make comments regarding his anatomy? How many male anime/manga characters are designed with the sole intent of their looks being appealing to females? How many times do males loose their shirts in film scene so women can ogle them.

Personally, I'd love to be objectified. It would be awesome!

Nateholio
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 11:03 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 11:24
Quote: "Like how could that be comfortable to fight in?"

I've seen about a 50/50 split among women who think things like thongs are comfortable with those who don't.

Quote: "How dignified is it for a man to dance around completely naked (but for a bow-tie)"

Haha! Not very dignified but it does sound fun (to be the man doing it) for a once or twice around.

Quote: "Personally, I'd love to be objectified. It would be awesome!"

It's probably be cool for a bit but then get old REAL fast. I wouldn't mind it as long as I could turn it off when it gets irritating. I've been told I've got a great body by several women and that I should wear tighter shirts (I'm not muscular at all, just built nicely, I guess...I don't know I'm not a woman and think my belly is a little bit bigger than it should be.) However, tight shirts are kinda odd to me. Society seems to shun this too for men.

Now you're gonna laugh at this or call me gay and I really don't care...back in survival school I was told by several people who had went through it that a good and easy way to keep warm was...wait for it...pantyhose under your uniform. Naturally I was thinking "you're a bunch of wierdos". But I tried it and bam! It works darn well. Oddly it worked better than the thermals we were issued. Not only that, but they felt kinda nice on the skin. Next thing to try, using my 18 year old logic, was bodysuits. I hated having to wrestle with my t-shirts in a flight suit (there's nowhere to tuck them unless you wear shorts or pants under them, which is too hot in warm weather) and the bunching up of the sleeves under the flight suit. Worked out darn well. Warm, no tucking or bunching, and they were kinda nice. Again, society says men wearing them is unmanly, gay, or there is something wrong with you. I'm about as manly as you can get - ranching, roping/riding, dirtbiking, chewing a half-smoked cigar while I worked during flight (which was against regulations), &&c. Well if they're functional and feel nice then why not? This is one area women don't have limitations placed on them by society. I'd like to have clothes that feel nice and silky on the skin because I'm a very tactile person - one of the first things I do when looking at a jacket or whatever is feel it.

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 11:07 Edited at: 8th Jul 2012 22:01
Quote: " "I'm surprised at how no one have gotten any deeper into how disgustingly sexist and objectifying this game is. This game is degrading women to 110%. That's one of the reasons I'm not gonna touch this even with a stick. This game is like going 20 years back in time.""

When I first read this, I honestly thought it was a joke and started to laugh, but now I'm realizing it's not a joke and I'm just irritated now.

People need to get over it. It's not sexist. It's awesome. If you are too sensitive to see sex appeal, then don't play the game and don't bicker and complain about it either. Just ignore it and get over it. Video games are played predominantly by males. ALL males feel sexually repressed to some degree, even if they really aren't sexually repressed at all, and seeing sexy women in a video game not only helps curve the sexual appetite (sometimes increasing it too in some situations) but it also is playing a video game... And what more is there to life for nerdy males other than sex and games? They may not be the only things, but they are high on the list... very high on the list.

So get over it or embrace it.

This world has gotten so sensitive I've officially lost my mind. We have millions of women whom in real life dress extremely risque (mind you, that it's not degrading women in the real world at all when they do it,) yet people are going to worry about fake video game characters looking sexy just because it's a bigger percentage of sexy women to not sexy women than how it is in the real world.

Please, for the love of God and all that is man.... Do NOT fight to get rid of sex appeal in video games. We all love it deep down inside, whether you're fighting against it or not, so just let it be, let it be, let it be. It is what it is and it is what it is. It's not hurting anyone and if there are actually women out there who feel degraded because of boobs in video games, well she's going to forget about it the next morning because in the end, it makes doesn't truly negatively affect anyone in this world enough to matter that much.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 11:23 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 11:27
Quote: "It's idiotic, but works to sell games to pimply faced horny teen boys and their adult counterparts living in their mother's basements who probably have never spoken to any women outside their family their entire life."

That seems unnecessary to me. Why do you think that's what represents most of the target market? Do you have statistics? Or are you just using stereotypes?

I'm interested in the game because it looks fun. Not because of some skimpy-dressed girl. I also like the ridiculousness of the plot. There were some parts that were just funny in there. In fact, the most I laughed in a long time was watching two of its gameplay videos.

Quote: "I hope you show the same outrage when females willingly "objectify" themselves...cheer, gymnastics, figure skating, ballet, &&c for starters. Tight, skimpy outfits...leg spreading...shaking their butts...and so on."

I'm going to ignore a lot of the points I wanted to make here and just stick with one: Stop worrying about things you can't control. There are a lot of things more important that you can control. For example, funding breast cancer research. That way the women you feel you need to protect, from themselves, might live longer.

Some women really are just sluts. Why do you care?

EDIT
In terms of sex appeal, people fighting to remove it are essentially fighting to prevent artistic freedom. I'm not getting into politics or anything like that, just that artists (and designers) have the right to do what they want (in terms of design). If they make money (or intend to make money) from it, who cares? It's their reputation, not yours.

Cheers,
Aaron

Nateholio
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 11:41
Quote: "Why do you think that's what represents most of the target market?"

Well let's see...maybe it's remembering back to my teen years. There wasn't one male who didn't think "oh yeah, this character is hot" and you can continue from there. Add to that, a lot of "men" I know (basically testicles with legs) froth at the mouth like a monkey or dog when they see a good-looking woman. The same types who buy games and movies because of a hot character. Now why would companies be making games with all this stuff if the market didn't demand it? This isn't a blanket statement, but you have taken it to be. As I said, if you don't like it, don't buy it. I looked at the game and found it was a hack-n-slash, the character was an afterthought.

Quote: "Stop worrying about things you can't control"

That's why I said "If I had a daughter". I could control that, or at least try to.

Quote: "I'm going to ignore a lot of the points"

Perhaps you are thinking I'm saying women who do these things are "sluts"? Not at all, most of the women I respect have done one or more of these. In fact the woman I respect most, my mom, cheered. They can be great for self-esteem and confidence to name a few. It's not the "sport" that makes you one, it's the reason you do it or things in it.

Quote: "Some women really are just sluts. Why do you care?"

I don't, I just have zero respect for them, and treat them as such. If someone wants to be that way it's not my business or place to stop them. However, I don't have to accept it or respect it.

@Redneck Rambo...well said in your 03:07 post!

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 11:46
Quote: "Perhaps you are thinking I'm saying women who do these things are "sluts"?"

Ah yes, I misinterpreted. Thanks for clearing that up!

Quote: "I don't, I just have zero respect for them, and treat them as such. If someone wants to be that way it's not my business or place to stop them. However, I don't have to accept it or respect it."

I'm not saying I respect them either. I was just under the impression that you wanted (can't find the right word) them to change to something more "morally acceptable."

Cheers,
Aaron

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 11:47
Quote: "Well let's see...maybe it's remembering back to my teen years. There wasn't one male who didn't think "oh yeah, this character is hot" and you can continue from there. Add to that, a lot of "men" I know"


May I refer that this is what most of my female friends think of anime male characters..?



Whose eyes are those eyes?

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