Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

AppGameKit Classic Chat / I really want to buy AGK but.....

Author
Message
Xyros
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2012
Location:
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 12:37
Link
The amount of steps to get your app on to a device seems horrendous!

I have GLBasic and I can literally get an app running on an android device with ONE click, without even leaving the IDE! That includes compiling it and installing it on the device.

All this with installing a player and doing what seems like 500 steps seems a bit confusing...

I really want to try it, (have the trial) but this is the thing holding me back at the moment.

Is there anyone here that has used GLBasic that can give me a fair comparison of the two, and what makes you choose AppGameKit over it?
Back to top
Profile PM
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 14:20
Link
I briefly tried GLBasic, but found the syntax so conveluted, that I ended up using C++ instead.

I think that the important factor, is development speed. It might be twice as easy and twice as quick to get something running on Android with GL, but then what if it's twice as quick to develop your game with AppGameKit! - that's a major difference in development time.
I get the impression that AppGameKit has been designed with fast development in mind, made by people who know what takes a lot of the time in development - like collision detection and media handling. They've added Box2D as a standard, and made it very easy to load images and create sprites. So AppGameKit is probably more organic, would get you results quicker in the long run. It really depends on the project - if someone wants to write an Angry Birds, or jump-the-whatever style game, then AppGameKit is the ideal language. GLBasic is powerful, and is probably overkill for a lot, if not most mobile game projects. Kinda like native XCode development for iOS these days - it's getting bloated more and more, and a lot of people just want to get their sprites and game logic in there, without a lot of fuss, then deploy it to whatever target they might have.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
JimHawkins
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 14:53
Link
A huge amount depends upon your preferred working methods, doesn't it?

I much prefer Object Pascal to Basic, and we now have that for AGK. This means that AppGameKit can be a simple display engine, and all the grunt stuff can be done in a structured and readable way.

Once Lazarus and Eclipse are installed it's possible to build in Lazarus, import to Eclipse, and debug to device in about 3 or 4 clicks. It ain't that hard!

-- Jim
Back to top
Profile PM Website
3d point in space
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 14:55 Edited at: 4th Jul 2012 20:16
Link
Glbasic looks the same except for some thing like glbasic has 3d already and agk does not but agk has more 2d commands then glbasic. If you use glbasic I would not change to agk really unless you want to use other commands. Agk will have 3d because looks like there is other programs that can do different things. Agk can. diploy to more devices then glbasic I think.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
anwserman
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 16:11
Link
Then don't buy it. Plain and simple. What you consider to be a huge flaw might not be so bad for another person. I dislike some of the limitations that Tier1 provides, but then again on the flipside, I could program in C++ (and relearn the language in the process) and take a month to do what I could do in a couple minutes with Tier1.

This does not include the fact that Tier1 is easily ported to multiple platforms.

If instant 'click-to-deploy' is your main concern when buying a programming language, than so be it. But you're missing out on the breadth of other features.

Hi there. My name is Dug. I have just met you, and I love you.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 16:22
Link
I have used GLB for almost 2 years. It's pretty good and took me away from DBP to be honest (and I've been here since 2000). It reminded me of DBP loads and there was nothing else like it that I found at the time for mobile devices.

I've made a couple of games now on a couple of devices. And yeah it's a good language. But there are a couple of problems. One is you are very much are chucked in the deep end. Want to handle any screen resolution? Do it yourself then. Pixel perfect collision on rotated and zoomed sprites? Again work it out yourself. Physics? Look up on the forum for Box2D integration.

It's nothing I haven't seen in DBP in the past, and loved, but AppGameKit is coming together more and more. Once it has 3D (also do we have types and FOREACH type commands yet?) then I'm probably going to jump ship to AppGameKit Tier 1 BASIC. Saying that I obviously already bought it a little while back I'm just waiting for it to mature a little.

So positives of GLB:-
1. Powerful well structured language
2. iOS/WebOS/Android/Mac etc support
3. Forum is ok for samples and help
4. The IDE isn't bad for this sort of thing
5. The creator and a couple of other guys update fairly often
6. Plugins. Anyone can splice in C code to add functionality like in-app purchases

Negatives:-
1. A lot of platform specific stuff you have to rely on other people doing plugins or working it out yourself. Very rarely does the language get platform specific stuff within the core of the language
2. There is only one programmer for everything and a couple of totally independant people making plugins in their own time. That's about it. He recently had a HD meltdown and lost months of work for example, plus the main plugin guy disappeared for weeks and there's nothing to do but wait then
3. The forum isn't this forum. Nowhere near. And this forum isn't even as good as it used to be (and probably will be again once AppGameKit gets rolling more). Help and examples exist but it's pretty small potatoes
4. I had a few issues with 3D and lighting for iOS (2.5D game). It worked on WebOS and the PC but not on iOS properly. Nothing really got fixed from my bug report and I ended up programming around it

So to sum up I am using GLB for my current couple of projects (mainly because I was half way through one when AppGameKit got to level it perked my interest) but I will almost definitely move over to AppGameKit when 3D comes in. GLB is good enough but AppGameKit looks to make things a whole lot simpler and has the history to pull things off even though at the minute it seems a little rough around the edges really.

What would really cheer me up after 3D is if AppGameKit could incorporate plugins into Tier 1 as easily as GLB can. Then, similar to DBP, there could be a load of cool stuff coming our way. In-app purchasing, for example, even just in iOS I would pay good money for (plugin created by the community exists for GLB BTW).

If you don't own either though then it might be worth waiting until 3D arrives in AGK. GLB 11 is also due out soon which promises an editable GUI and I believe direct compilation onto iOS from a PC (ie. Mac not needed at least not for testing) amongst other things. At least that was what he was talking about before the HD crash.

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 16:51
Link
Oh and as for installing and testing on Android, for GLB I had to go through loads of steps to install all the required (very large downloads) Java stuff and then drivers etc etc. It eventually worked but takes like a ages to compile and then transfer to the device. One touch indeed but is a bit of a pain.

With AppGameKit however I installed the player apk onto the Android device (pretty easy really), then with a sample game did broadcast in the AppGameKit IDE, and there it was running fine. Not bad. Ok isn't the final compiled version you can publish but for testing on a device it was awesome.

I understand you have to compile your own iOS player in XCode (iOS viewer totally sucks it seems to me) but that's no different than when you have to compile in XCode for GLB (until GLB11 hopefully).

The one excellent device on GLB for proper testing is WebOS. Plug in my Pre2 or Touchpad and will compile and transfer to the device a hell of a lot faster than Android or iOS. Nice. And 99% of the time is as compatible as either of the others.

Out of interest is there a way or version of AppGameKit player that allows it to remember uploads? I mean you broadcast and there it is, but what if the next day you want to show your mates? Can it remember all uploads and you can choose to play them again later independant of the PC? Considering it's not like the viewer and isn't actually streaming the picture then should be possible right?

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ancient Lady
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Mar 2004
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 18:16
Link
Yes, setting up the initial environment to do Android publishing takes an effort. But you only have to do it once. (They do need to update the guides to mention that you need to put your media in a directory named 'assets/media' for the Android stuff.)

When there are AppGameKit updates, you need to update some directories as well. But a simple script can handle that (and I'm happy to share mine).

My current WIP is in Tier 1 because I misunderstood something. But all of my next projects will be Tier 2, which is just as easy to port to the other environments.

And you can get lots of help and samples of stuff in this forum. We are a supportive and friendly bunch.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester
Back to top
Profile PM
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 19:46
Link
Sorry to burst your bubble, but AppGameKit is a programming language not a point-and-click game maker!

Any programmer worth his name will find it easy to follow the guide to setup ios and android development environment. you only have to do it once.

AGK has gone into the trouble of doing T1 and the Player systems for very quick test deployment too.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
3d point in space
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 20:33
Link
AGK has two languages that you can use basic and c++, for some people AppGameKit is the only option because they have that option. If you know C++ agk is way better the GLbasic even without the 3d. I think that tier one can do the same things as tier two but it takes more programming if you want advanced features in tier one. it true tier one is easy to deploy and program, also easier to write things with. In tier 2 c++ at first is hard because you have to work with xcode, Solaris, and Visual C++, but if you know how to organize the code tier 2 advance things are easier then tier one because of the many plugins that you can use that work in tier two.

So AppGameKit is for me because you can write in c++ which for me is easier then basic code.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
JimHawkins
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 20:49
Link
As I mentioned above - AppGameKit has THREE languages: Basic C++ and Pascal.

-- Jim
Back to top
Profile PM Website
LittleSteve
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2011
Location:
Posted: 4th Jul 2012 20:56
Link
I cant offer any opinions on the GLbasic langauge, but I got AppGameKit and I agree getting the initial android app up and running is a bit of a mess - but the instructions are very good and theres a lot of very helpful people on this forum 'Ancient Lady' to name one!
I firmly believe if you put the effort in you get the return, I'm busy working through the Hands On AppGameKit Basic book, so the help reference are all there, but as said by others these things are always a personal opinion - tough choice really!

Steve
Back to top
Profile PM
Xyros
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2012
Location:
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 02:41
Link
Wow, that's a lot of really good feedback. I appreciate everyone's input. Didn't mean tor this to be a vs. flame war which you guys didn't take it that way, fortunately.
I now have a much better comparison than just by reading "the covers".
The ability to compile straight to iOS from GL seems nice, but I'm not sure that would happen considering it would be outside of their ToS.
I will consider even more purchasing AGK. For the price really there's nothing to lose anyway, especially like some of you mentioned being able to use tier 2.
I purchased DB back in 2002 I think at best buy! Lol
I later got DBPro and messed with it a bit, so I do have a little history with TGC.
Thanks again guys!
Back to top
Profile PM
Xyros
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2012
Location:
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 02:56 Edited at: 5th Jul 2012 17:10
Link
<sorry double post>
Didnt realize I was still under the watchful eye lol
Back to top
Profile PM
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 11:08 Edited at: 5th Jul 2012 11:09
Link
Quote: "Didn't mean tor this to be a vs. flame war"
Meh, just buy both like me and see what you like. Hardly expensive. No need to have a flame war about it. Not as if you have to sign in blood or join some cult or anything

Quote: "The ability to compile straight to iOS from GL seems nice, but I'm not sure that would happen considering it would be outside of their ToS"
It's only for quick testing. You can't publish what you make to the store without a Mac. They had it working a few months ago but didn't release it because they thought everyone wanted full publishing from a PC. Not so as the replies to that statement overwhelmingly wanted just to be able to easily test an app from a PC. A good example is I have several PCs and laptops and develop most my stuff on my main laptop. My Mac mini is now under the main TV working as a media center. Don't want to be interrupting stuff dozens of times in one night just to test out something on an iPhone.

At the end of the day you use what you like and can get results in. Try the trials or splash the cash. So far GLB has done me pretty well, and AppGameKit (Tier1 or possibly Tier2) should serve me well in the future. You can make arguments for both, as well as a lot of other stuff out there (for example I have the Indie version of Unity from when it was free and it is very tempting and will have to see what a friend of mine makes from it). The best language is not always the best for you or what you want to do at the minute, in the same way the worst language is not always the worst choice.

And now to get back to that Doom remake in Sinclair BASIC

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
The Daddy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jan 2009
Location: Essex
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 12:06
Link
Hi

I just thought I would add my additions to these posts.

Firstly be clear about what you want to achieve....this sounds simple enough but which platform is your main target choice followed by what and then what. Also what kind of app do you want to write in an ideal world? Then based upon the above what programming capabilities do you have?

Very often the simplest choice to achieve the above criteria is often the best.

Whatever system or language you choose to code in is truly a matter of personal opinion. I have written stuff in 8bit assembly (those were the days), Cobol, Clipper, c++ using OpenGL, object pascal, purebasic, darkbasic, freebasic and of course agk. Not one of them is a 'catch all solution' and each requires effort to learn to master. Each has benefits above the others but the solution is, I believe, to ask yourself which you feel most comfortable with (and this involves a learning curve).

Let's look at Purebasic and Freebasic (my opinion): Purebasic is exceptionally powerful however it does not yet support tablets etc and a large draw back for me is no direct object orientation. Freebasic is also a powerful language that incorporates OOP but does not have many of the features purebasic has! This will be the case with EVERY solution you choose.

Use the KISS method: 'keep It Simple, Stupid".

Go with what you feel comfortable with and stick with it until you can no longer achieve the results you require. In your 'spare' time start playing with other solutions and see what else feels good.

REMEMBER ONE THING: finish a project, whatever solution you are working with! Most indies do not as they spend lots of time jumping about from solution to solution which can be fun but non productive. You would not have that luxury in a commercial world.


The end of my little soap box rant.

Constantly seeking!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Xyros
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2012
Location:
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 17:26
Link
Thanks again everyone.
I'll probably just try both for a while. Maybe make a small game that can be done in a day or two, and make the same game in both, and see what I think from there.
Not really wanting to use both always though because I'll get the languages mixed up! lol

I still consider myself to be more towards the beginnerish stage of programming (ehh maybe close to intermediate), although I've messed with programming for many years!
I understand all basic principles no matter the language..messed with a lot of BASIC, and quite a bit of C++ (SFML is great!) .
I understand basic OOP (simple classes), game states, game loops, etc...
I can throw scrolling tile maps with boundaries together fairly fast since I've done that so many times lol.
Probably have done way more studying on game programming than executing! lol
Pointers have been something I've struggled to understand.

Anyway, back to my original post...I see now that a lot of the steps taken only have to be done once if I understand correctly...
and it's not really important on the steps to get an app going, since most time will be spent developing not distributing.
I was just surprised how simple it was on one compared to the other.
Back to top
Profile PM
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 18:34
Link
Quote: "I was just surprised how simple it was on one compared to the other"
And I would argue the opposite of what you said. GLB was a massive pain to get everything downloaded and setup for Android although now is one click (although a slow process each time) to get on the phone to test. AppGameKit practically worked out of the box and once I had installed AppGameKit player from the marketplace it worked straight away and quickly from a broadcast (nice if it remembered broadcasts for later though). I'm guessing (apart from the compile the player yourself part as the viewer sucks hard) that AppGameKit iOS projects will then be a lot easier than GLB which involves transferring project data to a Mac and then sorting out XCode (not too bad once setup but still a rather large pain in comparison).

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ancient Lady
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Mar 2004
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posted: 5th Jul 2012 19:21
Link
Dazzag, for doing the Mac/iOS compiles, you still need to transfer all the project data, and the byte code file. There is some fiddling to get the project set up, but it only needs to be done once per project. And the steps are relatively easy.

I've been working Tier 1 in Windows, Mac and Android. And I'm now working in Tier 2. I haven't tested the Tier 2 in Android, yet. But I understand it is basically the same process and pretty much just as easy.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester
Back to top
Profile PM
MarcoBruti
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Nov 2011
Location: Caput Mundi
Posted: 6th Jul 2012 16:33
Link
I think that I can say a word about AppGameKit having 5 apps on App Store and another one (more complex) in an advance stage.
The word is: buy AppGameKit!
- It is very cheap, even considering bugs, player inconsistencies, etc. Even more expensive piece of sw are often buggy.
- The multi-platform testing capability has no rivals
- relies on DarkBasicPro huge experience
- Tier-1 Basic cannot be compared to C++, Java or Pascal, but it is a good trade-off.
- exceptional libraries and additional feature: Box2D, scrolling capabilities (setview), ecc
GLBasic seems to be an excellent product, but for rapid deployment and testing, AppGameKit seems better.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
basjak
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2010
Location: feel like signing up for mars
Posted: 6th Jul 2012 17:00
Link
it all depends on how confortable you are with the product. about the noisy steps to compile and download are only first time. now, i compile and install android app in less than one minute.

the app creation and the development time are much larger than the istallation time.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 13:06
Link
Quote: "Dazzag, for doing the Mac/iOS compiles, you still need to transfer all the project data, and the byte code file. There is some fiddling to get the project set up, but it only needs to be done once per project. And the steps are relatively easy"
Yeah, but isn't the compiled iOS player (not the viewer) good enough to test out quickly on an iDevice like you can on Android? Fair enough it's not going to be as quick as it's interpretted but good enough for testing surely? But yeah once setup should be still pretty easy to transfer the mac and compile etc. It's what I do with GLB and even with SCP file copying (want the actual project on a PC laptop to test rather than the Mac) it normally takes me no longer than 30 or 40 seconds or so to get it fully installed onto my iDevices (GLB compile on PC, macro button to SCP changed files across to my Mac, and then press compile in XCode on the Mac).

Normally though I will do most of the development on the PC before moving to XCode to add those last few touches and to completely test things. As Basjak said the development time far outstrips the installtion time and target device testing time, so it's no big deal.

Cheers

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 14:37
Link
Quote: "Fair enough it's not going to be as quick as it's interpretted but good enough for testing surely?"

I agree, I have been testing using the player for some hefty games and it runs smooth as silk. Very rare to get slowdown.


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ancient Lady
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Mar 2004
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 15:54
Link
Dazzag, yes you can use the player to do testing from the PC.

But, you have to make sure that your player is the same version as the code you are using and keeping the App Store player up to date has not been one of TGC's primary tasks.

Ultimately, you will need to put everything on the Mac to produce the final product for the iOS market. Apple will only accept apps built on a Mac with Xcode.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester
Back to top
Profile PM
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 16:46
Link
Quote: "keeping the App Store player up to date"
I thought the App store only had the Viewer and it's a load of rubbish? Or are we talking about an alternative download on Cydia or somesuch?

I'm fine with the Mac being a required element for publishing the app; it's what I've been doing in GLB for a couple of years. Bit annoying though about re-compiling the Player every time. I know it's Apples fault really for not letting that sort of app through (ie. an interpretter) but could be a little simpler.

If you are going to go behind their backs sort of speak and allow the user to compile it themselves then it would be good if it was available either on Cydia (I'm guessing you can publish immediately to a Repository), or had some kind of way of updating itself over the internet (basically like an App store app). As for the Cydia bit, if TGC are reluctant to dip their toes in the legally dubious world of jailbreaking then perhaps someone not affiliated to TGC could publish it there. Just supposing...

Since we are in the area of Player improvements I'll also mention it would be great if the Player remembered uploads so you can try them later without the PC. Have a menu then to run or delete what you like.

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ancient Lady
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Mar 2004
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 17:08 Edited at: 10th Jul 2012 17:09
Link
You are correct, my mistake, the player is not in the App stores. The Player is usually available through the 'Your Products' page. That is the one they don't keep up to date.

There is not going behind anyone's back. You are actually encouraged to build your own Player to make sure that you have one current with your AGK. You can build your own Player for any platform you wish, if you have the right setup for it.

Personally, I don't use the Player (or viewer) and test directly on my devices connected via Xcode or Eclipse, after development in Windows.

The advantage of running directly from Xcode or Eclipse is that it leaves a runnable copy of the App on your device and you don't have to connect again or use the Player, until you change your app.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester
Back to top
Profile PM
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 17:29 Edited at: 10th Jul 2012 17:32
Link
Quote: "There is not going behind anyone's back"
I didn't mean our back. I meant Apple's back.

Quote: "You are actually encouraged to build your own Player to make sure that you have one current with your AGK"
I would say overall it is not very obvious to the new user. I had to root around quite a bit to get the idea that the Viewer on the iOS App store is not the same (at all) as the Player on the Android Market, and that you need to compile your own version on XCode. From there to where the iOS Player project actually exists is a bit of a forum search too. Overall I get the idea that you need to look in the latest AppGameKit releases IDE folders. It's in there somewhere. Ignore your product page (the obvious place) as it's probably out of date. It's basically all a bit vague after being so clear when it comes to Android.

Quote: "Personally, I don't use the Player (or viewer) and test directly on my devices connected via Xcode "
I would have done the same thing (like GLB) a few months ago and then I moved to Cyprus and use my Mac as a media centre on my main TV in the lounge. Ok I can still go and compile on it but not as convenient now. I quite like AppGameKit because of that with the ability to use the Player to quickly check something. But overall it is the killer feature for the language to get people easily testing on an iPhone. I remember taking quite a while with GLB getting my first app to work on my iPhone. AppGameKit and my wife's Android phone took 2 minutes. You don't really want to bring new programmers into the fold with amazingly easy ways to get your code onto devices with lovely easy methods to achieve their goals and then pull the rug from under their feet with manual XCode compilations for the player and vague almost hidden away documentation on where to find it. Again, it's Apple that has stopped the Player from being on the app store, but perhaps something like Cydia would be nice (after all it seems everyone has Jailbroken it these days).

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Xyros
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2012
Location:
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 17:30
Link
Does anyone know if Game Center or In-App purchases are something to be included in the future ...
or how difficult is it to implement these into a tier 2 project?
Most other competing software have this ability now (albeit much more expensive)..
Still debating on purchasing but checking all options
(corona sdk, gamesalad, etc....)
Back to top
Profile PM
Ancient Lady
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Mar 2004
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 17:44
Link
Quote: "I meant Apple's back."


They shouldn't care. If TGC can provide a version for you to use, you can certainly build one yourself. However, you may not submit it to the App Store.

Apple doesn't like how the Player works. It would allow someone to create almost any game and let people have/run it without submitting it to the Apple system. I think that is why it is not allowed in the App Store. The Viewer is a very poor device to try to test on and no one would/could use it for a real game.

You can find the Windows player in your AppGameKit directory, but none of the others. There are directories for Mac/iOS, but they only contain text files telling you to build your own or use the TGC Player service.

Blame this on Apple, not TGC. Apple is the one making it difficult.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester
Back to top
Profile PM
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 19:12 Edited at: 10th Jul 2012 19:16
Link
Quote: "They shouldn't care"
I meant for putting the AppGameKit Player on the iOS app store. They stopped it because it was an interpretter and you are not allowed apps that run external code. It's the main reason the Viewer exists and why it sucks (because it's basically a media streamer and nothing else).

Quote: "It would allow someone to create almost any game and let people have/run it without submitting it to the Apple system. I think that is why it is not allowed in the App Store"
Yep. Allowing any unreviewed content and exploiting loopholes which they could not stop from an easily found source.

Quote: "The Viewer is a very poor device to try to test on and no one would/could use it for a real game"
True. But then it isn't obvious to a new user that this is the case. Instead the "Magic" of AppGameKit skips over that bit in the advertising. Also it gives a very bad impression to new users, potentially putting off new customers. When I first tried it, believing the Viewer to be the same as the Player (I assumed TGC had got round Apple somehow) as it wasn't immediately obvious, I thought it was rubbish. But it pretty much advertises as the fact as being the same as the Player. Search the forum and people have difficulty telling the difference. Although hopefully they can up the quality in the future it does seem like a quick fix to get iOS owners the same sort of functionality as Android (ie. the "magic" bit).

Quote: "You can find the Windows player in your AppGameKit directory, but none of the others"
Yes it is. It's in C:\Program Files (x86)\The Game Creators\AGK\IDE\apps\interpreter_ios. I know because I found a text file in the intallation zip file that tells me this. And that's what I mean. It's all a bit hidden and vague about what a "Player" is and where it can be found. All I'm saying is that for something that intends to have a "Magic" middle bit about getting things on devices (South Park Gnomes come to mind) that is obviously aimed at the more inexperienced programmers then it seems to almost go out of it's way to get harder to find out the details of players. It's like giving someone a Lego set because it's easier to use than Mechano, but then making sure that after block 105 you have to use Glue and a battery. And you only know that because you looked at the back of the box that was now in the bin. And then the Glue and battery type is found if you look under the blue block. I might be having a laugh there but I'm pretty serious. Even something simple like a pop up box in the IDE to say iOS needs a DIY compiled Player and then a link would do wonders.

Quote: "Blame this on Apple, not TGC. Apple is the one making it difficult"
I did. Read what I said again. I am simply suggesting alternatives (Cydia is obvious) and a fear that inexperienced programmers would be put off unless more was done to throw things in their faces. Text files in installation zip files is not it.

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ancient Lady
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Mar 2004
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 20:02
Link
Quote: "C:\Program Files (x86)\The Game Creators\AGK\IDE\apps\interpreter_ios."

Look at the contents of the directory. It only has a text file (at least that is what's in my v1076 installation).

Quote: "I did. Read what I said again."

Yup, I saw that seconds after I posted. Fingers faster than eyes, sometimes.

In general, you are right, the Player/Viewer issue is not obvious. I think a lot of the initial AppGameKit promotion stuff on the sites was done before they found out that Apple wouldn't let them put the Player on the App Store.

That is what us helpful folks on the forum are for, to help the newbies find out what hasn't been updated in the documentation yet. And other stuff.

I just finished getting my Tier 2 code, built in MS VS2010, over to a Mac iOS project. I finally got it all to compile (I had to find the right switch) and link and run. I'm happy. Now I need to fix the issue with the same thing in Android on Eclipse.

For a seasoned/professional programmer, AppGameKit is awesome. For new-to-computer programmers, the Tier 1 setup is pretty good for learning and coding. If they get something great, then we get to help them get it onto the other platforms. (I've done a lot of that on this forum.)

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester
Back to top
Profile PM
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 10th Jul 2012 23:35
Link
Xyros i would live to know that too.

Maybe some step by step guides for t2 would be good too. the tutorials i have followed are too complex
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dazzag
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 11th Jul 2012 11:13
Link
Quote: "Look at the contents of the directory. It only has a text file (at least that is what's in my v1076 installation)."
I downloaded the 200mb+ v1076 file. Another directory has a text file indicating that the directory I mentioned holds the XCode project for iOS Player. It exists in the zip file plus is where it says it is once AppGameKit is installed. Perhaps you installed the smaller (100mb+) Windows installer? But that is my point. It's all a bit wooly and needs to be clearer. Because AppGameKit Tier1 is firmly aimed at making things simple then I think they need to put this sort of thing as a message in the IDE. Along with a link to an always current XCode project. iOS is the one standout problematic area because of Apple annoyingly stopping apps like the Player, but it's also arguably the biggest market people want to get in on. Once they are there and setup they can pull their hair out publishing iOS stuff after 3 months of development.

Quote: "Fingers faster than eyes, sometimes."
Tell me about it. Some of my worst comments over the years was because I speed read or even ignore vast chunks of posts.

Quote: "That is what us helpful folks on the forum are for, to help the newbies find out what hasn't been updated in the documentation yet. And other stuff."
True, and this is why I have never truly left here in... crikey actually 12 years now.... It's just when it comes to the iOS Player it is all a bit vague compared to the rest of AGK. Ok so the various supported devices makes it difficult to make it as clearcut as when, say, DB or DBP first came along, but they really need to make this sort of thing as clear as possible to Tier1 first time users to avoid negative comments to other potential customers.

Quote: "For a seasoned/professional programmer, AppGameKit is awesome"
Don't get me wrong, I think so far it's doing great. Probably a better transition than when DBP came along if I remember rightly (from beta-testing problems to one version completely destroying my 3 month project). And potentially it could be absolutely amazing pretty soon. I'm just pointing out one or two concerns.

Cheers

Current fave quote : Cause you like musicians and I like people with boobs.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-23 17:49:06
Your offset time is: 2024-11-23 17:49:06