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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Raspberry Pi - Any plans for AGK?

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Tone Dialer
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 10:40
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My Raspberry Pi has arrived...



An exciting new opportunity for AppGameKit in the future, are there any plans to port AppGameKit to this platform?

More info at http://www.raspberrypi.org/

The raspberry Pi forums show that running Android on the Pi might be possible, but a native AppGameKit method would be better.

What plans TGC ?

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bjadams
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 10:46
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we haven't even got a proper 1076 Blackberry Playbook version of AGK... I think having all these platforms has turned out to be quite a hard bone to bite on

I for one would get a Pi if AppGameKit would support it properly.

question: is there an official and PROPER OS for the Pi?
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bjadams
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 10:47 Edited at: 8th Jul 2012 10:47
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At Games Britannia in Sheffield today we announced the launch of our first programming contest for children and young people. Eventually, we plan to run contests of this sort on a weekly basis, but this one will run for eight weeks, to coincide with the school summer holidays in the northern hemisphere.

Quick summary:

Two age categories, 13 and under, and 14 to 18.
A $1,000 first prize and five $200 runner-up prizes in each category.

The aim simple: we want you to impress the judges with a piece of software you’ve written for the Raspberry Pi.

If you don’t already have a Raspberry Pi, you can still enter – just use one of the publicly available emulator platforms. (More details on all of this in a later post!)
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 11:32
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The support for it should be extremely simple?

It uses linux and android is based on linux.

I would love to do games for it
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polomint
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 12:03
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Quote: "we haven't even got a proper 1076 Blackberry Playbook version of AGK..."


Yeah, this is getting annoying now... I *need* 1076 for the PB!!!!

Blackberry App Development & ZX Spectrum Game Development.
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DVader
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 13:40
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I would love to see this supported, but first things first, the platforms that are supported now need to be finished properly.

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basjak
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 16:28
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about blackberry. as you will need to pack APK file. so, mabe you can create APK file from latest version then pack it to blackberry.

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polomint
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 20:54
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APK? Isn't that a packed Android file? If so, that would mean that the application would have to run under the Android emulation on PB, which is not a good reliable idea.
We need the PB 1076 update so that we can create *native* PB apps. I use Tier 2 anyway, so would not be interested in anything other than producing native apps for the PB..

Blackberry App Development & ZX Spectrum Game Development.
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bjadams
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 21:23
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I think TGC need to add a couple of programmers to their team to keep up with the times.

I can't understand how come a one man show, who does an HTML based toolkit is able to release 2-3 updates a month, and with AppGameKit we don't even have a proper roadmap with real dates.

The way things are right now, AppGameKit is mostly aimed at the part-time programmer, who wants to do a couple of little apps for the fun of it. its impossible to take any serious commitment with artists and try to build a team when you depend on Tgc and have no idea what is coming next. A clear example of this is monetization: we were left with InnerActive and that's it.
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Dar13
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 21:41
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Quote: "I can't understand how come a one man show, who does an HTML based toolkit is able to release 2-3 updates a month, and with AppGameKit we don't even have a proper roadmap with real dates."

Because the other guy's doing a HTML-based toolkit instead of a proper programming language(with its own compiler AND an API for another, more popular programming language) with native platform support and compiled bytecode like Lee is doing. Perhaps TGC could hire a couple more programmers, but that's their prerogative.

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 23:18
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I belive tgc have alot in the works!
But are waiting for them to be fully tested before release.

One main problem is that they started the work on 3d because alot of people cryed out about it.

This steals dev time from the other aspects of agk.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 23:30
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@bj - Anybody releasing 2-3 updates a month is an idiot. Monkey's update rate is about the same as TGC. Problems are usually "new" features. When TGC don't produce loads of new features people complain - when they do and there are problems they complain about instability.

I'd be very interested to see breakdown of which errors are actually in the core engine, and which are in the Basic compiler. I don't think any non-hobby programmer would use the Basic anyway.

As far as monetisation etc goes - these should be separate modules and NOT core modules. Times change, interfaces change - and without a good modularisation any system is soon out-dated.

-- Jim
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MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 19:35
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Quote: "As far as monetisation etc goes - these should be separate modules and NOT core modules. Times change, interfaces change - and without a good modularisation any system is soon out-dated."


totally agree with you there Modular Programming is always the forefront of everything I do be it Programming or Real Life processes!

That Power socket looks flimsey to me... my concern is wear and tear with the Pi...

However Until it is more of a widespread platform I doubt anybody will take it seriously...

But I would not mind getting hold of one just to give it a try too... but waiting for something with no certainty is not a positive for me... I get bored of things real quick when I do not have access to them immediately... that's just me, If I start something I have a tendency to work on it like a cart horse until its finished... but I understand there is a huge waiting period for one of them and my understanding is that there are more than 1 variant? can someone confirm and please the last time I looked at the site it was some sprodgey WordPress or something site with not a lot to say... very unclear... maybe its been updated I dunno...

[*sigh* that feels better haha]

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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 22:01
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Ouya is stealing all the news!!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 23:58
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Quote: "Ouya is stealing all the news!!"

Bloody awesome
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Mobiius
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:31
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I like that Ouya.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
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basjak
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 03:22
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Am not a blackberry expert but blackberry will provide you with an Apk and HTML5 packer. Html5 is on tgc bag now.

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erebusman
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 09:00
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Quote: " we haven't even got a proper 1076 Blackberry Playbook version of AGK... I think having all these platforms has turned out to be quite a hard bone to bite on
"


I have to agree with this.

Lets get more features and lets get support for things that are *out now*.

Also TGC/AGK should be looking at market share when deciding if its worth time to support something AND the volume of features that could be rolled out to support the most lucrative (read : largest markets) rather than putting time into implementing support for devices that have ludicrously small market shares?

What is really the benefit of supporting no-market or tiny market share devices to us?

I was in a iOS Developer meetup recently where it was asked of the room of developers (some of which had up to 30 apps on the Apple store and android market places etc) who was making money in the android market?? One guy raised his hand out of the whole room.


There were 4 developers in the room who were making a living off of the iOS marketplace though!


If a device has less than 1% of the market... do you really care about developing for it? My answer is: no.
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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 09:34
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Basjak, if I wanted to do HTML5 blackberry development I would not care about AppGameKit at all, as I already use another Super Html5 sdk that can do whatever I dream of.

All I was asking for is a simple answer whether we can expect a playbook 1076 yes or no, so if the answer is no, one can plan and seek other options.
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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 09:45
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Erebusman, it all depends on the end target one has.

Let's take the PSvita for example. It has a "small" market share right now (compared to ios or android) but has all the big Jap games company developing titles for it.

If AppGameKit supported it, I could release "2 console titles" the "easy way round" and shoot my resume up the stars, up there with the console developers. I won't care if my games would make any profit, as that is not the end target. The end target would be long-term investment in one's skill.

The native PSvita SDK is based around Cocos2D. Cocos have also recently released an HTML5 sdk. If things keep on going this way, I think there would be no option but to move over to Cocos and forget AppGameKit, as Cocos is a more widely accepted standard with a good track record. But i want to see how things turn up with AGK; the "just released, give it more time" thing will soon wear off.
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Dar13
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 21:54
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@Erebusman
Quote: "What is really the benefit of supporting no-market or tiny market share devices to us?

I was in a iOS Developer meetup recently where it was asked of the room of developers (some of which had up to 30 apps on the Apple store and android market places etc) who was making money in the android market?? One guy raised his hand out of the whole room.


There were 4 developers in the room who were making a living off of the iOS marketplace though!


If a device has less than 1% of the market... do you really care about developing for it? My answer is: no."

By saying that you're implying that Android is a no-market-share or tiny market-share product? Android has equal(if not more) market-share compared to iOS!

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DVader
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 15:35
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Quote: "Android has equal(if not more) market-share compared to iOS!"

Yes but android users tend to be less likely to pay for stuff, from what I hear. I can understand this, they probably went for an android to save cash in the first place.
I would imagine Blackberry is one of the better devices supported (sort of) with potential for sales, despite the companies current outlook. Current playbook owners are probably crying out for more apps as it is still new.

@ bjadams, I'm sure that playbook support will be updated, as I have seen a thread where Lee Bamber said it was to be done once all the new features were working properly for android and iphone (which I think they mostly are now). Remember they are also working on 3D now for a 3D update. I think that is probably so they can charge all of us to upgrade, they have to keep revenue coming in I suppose. So I suspect the smaller devices are being worked on rather less than we would like. But I am sure they will be updated at some point. The current AppGameKit player in the store STILL is not compatible with the latest 1076 version of AppGameKit and that is not great to be honest. It certainly wouldn't encourage me to purchase AppGameKit anyway. Can't be that hard to update it surely? Perhaps it has been overlooked somehow. The adverts do not show if you use the player on the store.

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bjadams
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:10
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I don't use the player or T1, as I wanted to avoid being cornered and having to depend 100% on TGC for adding 3rd party libraries.

So theoretically I should have less problems.

However, just like many others, I am still waiting for a fully functional 1076. There is always a thing or two that needs fixing, or the templates do not work out of the box, or there are problems with orientation, or one thing or another. I use other sdks for other jobs, so I can compare AppGameKit with other solutions, and right now AppGameKit needs a lot of finetuning put in, before 3D can be put on the table. 3D will bring along 1000 new problems as it's a vast realm, so still having problems with 2d and releasing 3d is not the best option. I don't think I will update to 3d unless 2d works faultlessly. I don't like the idea of a propriety 3d format too, it's too closed-boxed, and will cut out 3rd party converter software.
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erebusman
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:19
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@Dar1

Quote: "By saying that you're implying that Android is a no-market-share or tiny market-share product? Android has equal(if not more) market-share compared to iOS!
"


You are taking my comment out of context.

I in no way said Android was a non-existent market. I'm well aware of how many Android devices are out there.

I was saying that a device that isn't even out yet is a non existent market.
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polomint
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:22
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I have a R-Pi coming soon, and I doubt that I will be using it for games at all. Most buyers will be using it to run headless servers etc.
I only intend to use mine for ssh into an irc session, maybe a little vnc, and to serve as a tnfs server. It's not likely that many will bother with games. It's more of a tinkering device than anything else.

As for Playbook support, get it done already!!!!!!!!!!

Blackberry App Development & ZX Spectrum Game Development.
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 16:45
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Quote: "I don't use the player or T1, as I wanted to avoid being cornered and having to depend 100% on TGC for adding 3rd party libraries."

Maybe i should put my head in to tier 2 as i find my self stuck many times because of the lack of player updates

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bjadams
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 17:11
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you can compile the player yourself. tgc even offer a service. so you are not totally stuck as there are options
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 17:37
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Quote: "you can compile the player yourself. tgc even offer a service. so you are not totally stuck as there are options "

I am using tier one basic and nead an updated player while developing my apps.

But iam thinking about leaving basic and start using c++ ( tier 2 ) instead as they update there player on the market to rarely.

I used eclipse and wrote my apps in java before agk and found it to be slow and a hazzle.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 19:00
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Have a look at AppGameKit for Pascal. Compile straight to native code. No hassles. No need for Cygwin. No player. No problem!

-- Jim
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 19:48
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Quote: "Have a look at AppGameKit for Pascal. Compile straight to native code. No hassles. No need for Cygwin. No player. No problem!"

I have never used pascal

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 20:18
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Never mind!

-- Jim
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bjadams
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 22:24
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You don't even need Cygwin.

I have posted many times of a system to autocompile on Android every time you change your code without typing any command prompts, but tgc didn't seem that interested to put it in the docs.
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 22:50
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Quote: "You don't even need Cygwin.

I have posted many times of a system to autocompile on Android every time you change your code without typing any command prompts, but tgc didn't seem that interested to put it in the docs. "

Iam very intrested badjams!

Where have you posted this?

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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 00:17
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In my opinion Tier-1 is too important to be overlooked. T2 is more about hacker people. Consider the baxslash is focused on Basic development, so why has TGC hired him if they are not focused on that? Tier-1 is the key to gain market share. I would be able to program T2 (I programmed in C++ and Java, and even Pascal and a lot of other languages, I has been one of the first customers of Borland Turbo C, and maybe I was the first to program a graphic library for that for old CGA graphic card), but since I do programming in my spare time, I cannot lose 1 month only to setup Pascal environment, refresh my Pascal and start with hello world.
So welcome to Tier-2, but without a working Tier-1 bug-free, etc etc, I think that AppGameKit shall have not a long life or it will become an open source project for hackers.
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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 08:53
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Marco, 80% of "bug reports" and "complaints" come from T1 users. Many of those are because they don't want to invest time & gain knowledge in setting up the necessary native tools to compile the final product. Everyone one wants a one-button click solution!!!!

For iOS there is a problem that the Player which is not available on the appstore and the Viewer is just a low res video streamer. For android setting up the tools seems to be beyond the capabilities of many users even if there are step by step guides and videos!

So TGC have a problem there which they are ignoring for now.

With T2 things are different. Users are programmers who don't mind investing 30 minutes to set up Xcode or Visual Studio.
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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 08:54
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Cliff:

http://mobilepearls.com/labs/ndk-builder-in-eclipse/
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 12:42
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bjadams that whas pretty sweet!

Seams stupid by tgc to ignore it?

Someone that likes to use tier 1 dont like to use cygwin!

But i my self made an text file with the neaded commands for cygwin that i simply paste in

I will try this later on when i update the player code

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