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Work in Progress / PonyCraft : Tainted Skies

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TheComet
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 14:22
Right, and considering all of the other processing which would go on in the background, you can halve that number again. It's unacceptable.

The decision has been made that I'll use Ogre3D and I'm sticking to that. I'm sick of DBP, so many work-arounds and other stupid shortcomings that get in your way.

TheComet

"Why geeks like computers: unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep." - Unknown
mr Handy
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 14:24 Edited at: 25th Oct 2012 14:42
Titan Quest was released in 2006, and I can run it at 15 fps on minimal settings. So multiply my test results by 5 at least.

It means good gaming PC will run test at 200, I am sure, and if you cut it in half you will get 100.

Anyway it is your choice what to use I am not pushing you towards DBP, it was just a couple of tests We all want PC:TS to be awesome and cool. And fast
TheComet
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 14:43
And if I do continue this project in DBP, what benefits do I get? Here's a list of problems I'm going to have/am having with DBP, and won't have in Ogre3D:

-DBP only supports Windows and only supports DX9.0c Aug 2007 or later (and even then it doesn't always run out of the box)
-DBP can only use 1 core of your CPU
-DBP has no decal support, have to do work-arounds
-DBP has no good networking support
-DBP's variable and array system is horrible
-DBP's UDTs are horrible
-DBP has inefficient disassembly (source)
-DBP's debugger is horrible
-DBP has no good pathfinding support
-DBP's shader system is annoying

There's probably more. The point is, I've made my decision and it's final.

TheComet

"Why geeks like computers: unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep." - Unknown
mr Handy
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 15:29 Edited at: 25th Oct 2012 15:37
Quote: "DBP can only use 1 core of your CPU"

Quote: "DBP has inefficient disassembly"

Wow, i did not knew... it sucks!

Ogre3D... hmm, I should take a close look... Maybe I should move to it?

P.S. I don't want to change your decision, dude! I am just curious. But are you sure with Ogre? What about other engines?
TheComet
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 16:04
Quote: "P.S. I don't want to change your decision, dude! I am just curious. But are you sure with Ogre? What about other engines? "


No problem Handy, I think it's great that you're testing my decision.

I chose Ogre3D because I've heard a lot of good stuff about it lately and I've seen more than a few games made in it. The community seems to be active, the engine is very well documented (you don't see that a lot to be honest).

It isn't too late to change engines yet, but I haven't seen anything worth changing too yet.

TheComet

Private CARROT() As Char = {"^"c} - The codebase
darkvee
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 16:08 Edited at: 25th Oct 2012 16:10
Hi guys,

Did anyone test my demo out? I notice no one talked about it. Here is the direct-link for it.

http://upafile.com/c5cptb7q9dd8

Also can someone give me a pony and let me try it in my engine see what results I get. I will post another demo of the pony using my engine.

What people don't realize is my engine isn't instancing at all.
Notice the animations the zombies don't play the same ones.

darkvee
mr Handy
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 16:19 Edited at: 25th Oct 2012 16:22
Here is your pony!
200 zombies at 54 fps on my potato PC.

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Dar13
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 17:28
The problem isn't the graphics processing, it's all the logic of the game. DBP is infamously horrible for computation, and RTS games use a ton of computation for AI and movement.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 19:53
Sad to see you leave the Dark side. Saying that, my project moved engines, so I wouldn't be one to complain there. But Ogre & C++ to me seems like you're giving yourself a lot of work, which could be a set back, I guess it depends on your skill too, but you seem to be a decent coder anyway. But have you thought maybe trying an existing game engine that can be used to create RTS games as opposed to from scratch with a graphics engine to help? Unity3D, UDK, Torque3D, NeoAxis (which was made using Ogre) are some viable choices IMO. Of course, you'll do what's best for the project, but some alternative solutions there to dangle in your face.

darkvee
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 22:05
Hi mr Handy

That's pretty awsome man. I wonder what it could do with the pony models in it. I bet it would get a good score.

darkvee
Sergey K
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Posted: 26th Oct 2012 00:02
Quote: "Here is your pony!
200 zombies at 54 fps on my potato PC."

nice work Mr Handy.
999 zombies loaded for 2 seconds! 50FPS

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pictionaryjr
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Posted: 26th Oct 2012 11:12
I did 999 zombies and got 35 fps when looking at as many of them as I could. It counted 862442 polygons. Not sure how your system works and if it was rendering them all but those are the statistics I got. I'm running off of an 8ghz processor.

TheComet
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Posted: 26th Oct 2012 14:25 Edited at: 26th Oct 2012 14:26
Just to add to this little comparison here, I've loaded 200 pony models into 3 different engines (for DBP I used the zombie demo above).

DBP (zombie game above)


Nuclear Basic


Ogre3D


The Ogre test was done completely unoptimized. For the game I'll merge grouped units into the same batch, which will drastically improve frame rate.

TheComet

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mr Handy
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Posted: 26th Oct 2012 20:45
Quote: "DBP (zombie game above)
-200 ponies
-32 fps
-680'000 polygons"

Are you sure? 200 zombies shows 180'000 for me

Also I have run zombie test on a better PC with good pentium CPU, and CPU is vital for bones, so:
-999 zombies
-10 fps
- 850'000

Iwonder, what FPS will be on good core i5 (i7)?
TheComet
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Posted: 26th Oct 2012 23:53 Edited at: 26th Oct 2012 23:54
Quote: "Are you sure? 200 zombies shows 180'000 for me"


The zombie models give me a high FPS, but I replaced them with Derpy Hooves models for the above test.

Besides, those zombie models don't have that many polygons or bones. They have:

19 bones
863 polygons.

TheComet

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Chenak
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 03:14 Edited at: 27th Oct 2012 03:19
Good luck to you if you are switching engines, I hope the one you choose will do you justice.

Although DBP has its problems it does present a few good advantages, mainly the simplicity and some nice plugins. I think for your game as it will have lots of units on screen you need the enhanced animation plugin, DBPro slows down quite a lot when using native animation commands.

I working on some shaders for easy decals, If I get any results I will share it out

You want 200 units on screen, how many polies and bones for each model and what kind of detail for the background?
darkvee
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 15:59
Mr Handy,

I will share a really good tip for you with dbp. I did some research on this. When you make your models in 3d make sure it has only has 0 limbs or 1 limb in the model. Meaning attach all your parts to the model and have one 1 name for it all or attach just about all and leave 1 part separate.

You can leave the bones though. It's just the 3d model parts your concerned with. By doing this it will give you the best fps. Try this out and re-run it on your demo. Mr Handy see if your fps is better from the changes.

darkvee
RUCCUS
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Posted: 27th Oct 2012 21:08
Quote: "There is certain rules and stuff you have to do make dbp run fast."


Yeah, rules like rendering an object and taking a screenshot of it and pasting the screenshot 1000 times? . Honestly guys, just let him move to a better language, DBP hasn't been able to keep up with the needs of today's games for quite some time now.
TheComet
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 18:51 Edited at: 28th Oct 2012 19:00
Expect a demo release in 2 weeks.

We figured that it would be good to release what we have so far in DBP. After all, 4 months have been invested into it and ditching it without showing what we have would be a little sad.

Here's a first impression of the demo mission:



TheComet

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Oct 2012 21:13
Improved textures...



TheComet

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darkvee
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Posted: 29th Oct 2012 03:04 Edited at: 29th Oct 2012 03:05
Hi TheComet,

Looks great! Your going to produce a demo in dbp in two weeks? I didn't see this coming.

darkvee
mr Handy
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2012 13:15
Teapot!

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mr Handy
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Posted: 8th Nov 2012 15:20
gentle hint: check my thread
TheComet
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 21:11
Received your props Handy.





TheComet

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mr Handy
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 11:11
Good Please, read original thread for more info on recieved props.
TheComet
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Posted: 18th Nov 2012 15:35
@ mrHandy

The props are working out great so far, thanks!

This here happened in the mean time:



TheComet

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TheComet
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Posted: 18th Nov 2012 23:04
Just implementing the enemy:



Ignore the obnoxious music, I forgot to mute the video.



TheComet

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Sergey K
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 14:36
cool. i love the video! looks fantastic! im looking forward for your demo release

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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 14:41
Wow! There was an update!
TheComet
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 01:12
Needs some work, but I'm getting there.



TheComet

mr Handy
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 10:03
Do you need more textures or models for demo? I mean, maybe another tree or something? More grass? Baloons? Candy? Streamers?

Also what FPS if there is 50 smoking grunts?
Sergey K
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 10:36
nice effect! im a fan of effects like those
what particle system you used?

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TheComet
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 11:18
It's a custom system, just a few ye olde DBP plains.

TheComet

mr Handy
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 14:56 Edited at: 20th Nov 2012 14:56
...ok
TheComet
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 18:35
Photobucket decided to resize it to a crappy size. The particles now look much better:



TheComet

Sergey K
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 20:17
use it for your avatar.. looks soo awesome!

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Indicium
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 21:49
I thought you were using Ogre3D for this now, and not DbPro or did I miss something?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
TheComet
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 21:53
We aim to finish a demo using the DBP engine before we move to C++. The demo will be released on the 24. Nov 2012.

TheComet

Indicium
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 21:56
Ah cool, I'll be checking it out, I'm not into MLP at all but this is looking really cool.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
TheComet
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 02:00 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2012 02:02
A new ability, Meteor Shower. It deals area damage over time (not all at once) and drains half of your energy reserves, so it should be used wisely.



TheComet

Chris Tate
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2012 23:32
So, how's the transition from DBPRO to C++ going?

TheComet
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 21:07
Quote: "So, how's the transition from DBPRO to C++ going?"


I've mainly started messing around with Ogre and reading up on how people use it. Very nifty stuff, it has everything a game developer could ever need.

I'm going to have to make some small games with it before I start porting PonyCraft to it, I need to feel absolutely safe first.

TheComet

TheComet
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 17:18 Edited at: 6th Dec 2012 21:21
Keeping you all updated on the tech demo release, which is still being written in DBP:

* Need help - GUI redesign request

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=201942&b=2

The current GUI "looks like a sux", as Sergey very well described it. We desperately need someone who would be willing to design a button (the same graphic is used for all buttons), and the underlying panel which displays unit information, button control panel and the minimap.


* Updated graphics

-When placing a force field, a small "flash" effect appears to emphasize its construction. The field has been coloured purple as well.


* The final to-do list

Improved GUI
Triggers (20%) - Triggers the execution of scripts based on a set of conditions (for example if a unit moves somewhere->trigger)
Healing ability
Unit information on GUI panel
Fog of War on minimap
Loading screen


* Current bug list

-Magic Missile animation bug
-Mana regeneration
-Unit does not follow another unit when following command was chained
-Multiple GUI buttons can be pressed at the same time (because NO CHECK WAS IMPLEMENTED YOU IDIOT)
-Air units with the Meteor Shower ability land when activating it
-Minimap projection has the wrong aspect ratio

TheComet

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TheComet
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 21:25
Triggers supported currently are:

-Unit counter (triggers when a certain number of units enter an area)
-Control type (triggers when only a certain control type is present in an area. "PLAYER", "NO ONE", or "ENEMY")
-Global timer (triggers after a predefined time)
-UnitID (triggers only when a specified unit enters an area)

Here is a picture of the trigger regions:



TheComet

RUCCUS
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 21:50 Edited at: 6th Dec 2012 21:51
Just drinking a coffee and skimming the forums, and thought I would throw my two cents in on your Unit Counter trigger. I'm not sure how you've implemented it, but I've dealt with a game before (forget what it was) that had a similar trigger and I remember it being a pain sometimes when the counter needed something like 20 units for example, yet the pathfinding would come in and screw things up a bit by not allowing all 20 units in the trigger zone unless in the "sweet spot" formation. I remember back then wondering why they didn't add something akin to

(pseudo)


So that if you have something like, 17 units, for example, in a Unit Counter trigger zone that requires 20 units to set off the trigger, then if there are 3 units that are "close enough" to the trigger zone, then the trigger zone gets set off anyways.

Anyways, like I said just passing by, something I remembered was a nuisance an thought Id throw it out there.

<edit>
Ofcourse, if the level designers make the trigger zones big enough to always encapsulate the required amount of units regardless of path finding, then it's not necessary, but still a nice feature nonetheless.
</edit>

Things are looking good, take care,
- RUC'
TheComet
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Posted: 7th Dec 2012 13:40 Edited at: 7th Dec 2012 13:42
@ RUCCUS - That's a nifty feature, I added it and played around with it a bit. It seemed a lot more tolerant when only one unit entered the trigger, and got less and less tolerant the more "complete" the group inside the trigger got. I then inverted that so it got more tolerant the more complete the group was, which seems to be more logical.

Thanks for your input!

@ All

Triggers are done. You can combine triggers together with either an AND or OR conjunction. For example, you might want 5 units to be in a trigger region AND you want only units there that can be controlled by the player.

* The final to-do list

Improved GUI
Triggers - Triggers the execution of scripts based on a set of conditions (for example if a unit moves somewhere->trigger)
Healing ability
Unit information on GUI panel
Fog of War on minimap
Loading screen


* Current bug list

-Magic Missile animation bug
-Mana regeneration
-Unit does not follow another unit when following command was chained
-Multiple GUI buttons can be pressed at the same time (because NO CHECK WAS IMPLEMENTED YOU IDIOT)
-Air units with the Meteor Shower ability land when activating it
-Minimap projection has the wrong aspect ratio
-Force field collision not always working

TheComet

TheComet
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Posted: 9th Dec 2012 23:07


TheComet

Chris Tate
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Posted: 11th Dec 2012 05:48
She's well moody.

I'm looking forward to seeing how all that work was done when you release the source code.

Sergey K
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Posted: 11th Dec 2012 12:48
this project looks better and better everytime i see a new video!
it looks PRO now

good job man.

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TheComet
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Posted: 21st Dec 2012 13:24 Edited at: 21st Dec 2012 13:33
Thanks guys!

Some updates, nonZero is now working on the GUI for the game, I've fixed everything on the bugs list, and I'm adding in the final features.

C++ development has started already as well. I've started on the script compiler first because that lays down the ground upon which the game will be built. The scripts in the new engine are going to be C-inspired code rather than command line code.

So far, the program can take a file like this:



(no one would code like that, it's just for an extreme test)

And the program converts it to a much more readable form, which can be properly compiled:



The method for compiling a file is part of the ScriptManager class, and looks like this:



The compiled byte-code is added to a pool of data, and a pointer to the first instruction is stored and associated with the passed script index internally. This means that you can run two instances of the script at the same time like this:



TheComet

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