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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / How far can you push DBP ?.

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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 18:08
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Just one question, very quickly!
(unless you're too tired, because of
The heat, in denmark we have 29 celsius deegrees, pew!).
Me i am too laazy.

Ok. Here is the question, below.

How far can you push Dark Basic Pro,
i mean could you getting away with doing
A "Call of Duty 2" or even "Call of Duty 4 modern
warefare" / battlefield newest release.
What about 3d models, graphics, shaders, speed.
would it be possible to create a similar 3d model
As perfect as you see in Call of Duty 4 ?,
and would you newly created clone of COD 4,
run at the same speed or as nearly as in COD ?.

Or could you somehow connect the Cry Engine 3
, use its LUA script and control it via Dark Basic
Pro and eventually write rest of the code in DBP ?.
Offcourse, DBP is running on directx and i
think, Cry Engine 3 on OpenGL.


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Sergey K
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 19:35 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 19:36
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only using Pure dark basic commands, you cannot push dbp for too much.
i believe its even impossible to complete a game cuz dbp too poor (no multi threading)
its very basic language.

although using some Plugins (dlls) that written on some other languages (c++,vb,Delphi) you might get very nice progress.
still dbp had a limit with directx 9.0c. but even that can be overwriten.

maybe im wrong. but i been programming dbp for about 8 years or so. and thats my impression on it.

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Sasuke
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 19:42
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I agree with Sergey here.

DBP is pretty neat, but it's biggest and most massive draw back is it's speed. It's slow as hell. Hence why you see a lot of people making a concept in DBP then rebuild on that idea in say C++. This is why DBP is plugin heavy to get around it's slowness and the many many core features that should of been native not being.


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Dar13
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 19:45
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Quote: "only using Pure dark basic commands, you cannot push dbp for too much.
i believe its even impossible to complete a game cuz dbp too poor (no multi threading)
its very basic language."

Oh really?
Catathrenia was made in FPSCreator(which was made in DBPro).
Dark Kumite was made in DBPro.
Mega Mash Mothers was made in DBPro.

You can make games in DBPro, and some pretty good looking ones at that, but it takes dedication and some skill.

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Sasuke
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 20:08 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 20:22
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Quote: "You can make games in DBPro, and some pretty good looking ones at that, but it takes dedication and some skill."


But to the lengths of what henrikh2008 is talking about, then no. Unless you deploy sneaky tactics like they do with console games, for instance the narrowing of FOV, so you don't have to render so many polys you can make the scene more prettier. But even so, DBP is slow as hell, even if you were a brilliant coder, it would be wasted efforts to try producing such a game where you might aswell just code in C with no hassle, compared to the ridiculous number of work arounds you'd have to come up with in DBP.

On a side note: Did you know that Tony Davis the lead level design of Crysis and Producer of Crysis 2 uses DBP.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 20:27
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Ok, but wait. Lets pretant or lets say you
have a very skilled art director at you disposal,
creating models of 3d game charecter (soldiers)
Made in 3d max studio (hi res polygon models)
with 8 texture layers and, lets say you wanted
cars, tanks trucks, which you
Bought these hi res models (and somehow reduced
the polygons, with a fix, so you couldnt actueally
See the the impact of the reduced mesh itself!).
you allso wanted hi res animation and a good
Game music score throughout the whole game.
I am. not that skilled in programming. I could
never make that sort of games.
I believe it maybe could be done, atleast the
3d models, maybe not at full speed, like COD 4.
Those guys have atleast 10 programmers and
and are the abselut the expert of the expert.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 20:37
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I guess, i am dreaming, the right word here would be "keep dreaming on"

when you read all the many reviews regarding
Dark basic pro, you often see the words , like
"compile at native speed, allmost as fast as c++"
bla bla.
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 20:40
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Quote: "Quote: "only using Pure dark basic commands, you cannot push dbp for too much.
i believe its even impossible to complete a game cuz dbp too poor (no multi threading)
its very basic language."
Oh really?
Catathrenia was made in FPSCreator(which was made in DBPro).
Dark Kumite was made in DBPro.
Mega Mash Mothers was made in DBPro.

You can make games in DBPro, and some pretty good looking ones at that, but it takes dedication and some skill.
"


I do not know about you. Those games reminds me of old days - DOS 3D games graphics. StarWrath is a much better example.
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Sasuke
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 20:48
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The COD coders are not exactly doing anything amazing, all they do is update the same engine they've been using for ages and tweak a few things. Look at something like Project Offset, started with one guy then 3 and they show some very impresses stuff, things not see in any other game at the time and still today. Even with limited staff, they were incredibly talented and driven and that's all it takes really. You could make a game like COD (preferably you should make something of your own), but the sheer amount of time it would take to do by yourself is insane.

But what you can do is create an engine and setup a team (team requests this forum are not allowed) to develop on that engine.

One of the biggest FPS's in history is Half Life. DBP could easily achieve something of that level and more. Think more of where games start from before becoming a franchise. COD never started out as it is now.

So when you make something, start with a concept and just keep improving on it and you'll eventually end up with something that could be amazing.
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Sergey K
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:12 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 21:14
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@ Dar13: i hate when ppl not read all what i said before answering.

Catathrenia was made in FPSCreator(which was made in DBPro).
FPS Creator uses DX 10+

Dark Kumite was made in DBPro.
This game made in lots of different plugins

Mega Mash Mothers was made in DBPro.
this one never finished.

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James H
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:12
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attatched, some screenies that show dbp isnt quite as slow that most of us thought it was, as already mentioned youll need dedication, also a lot of time, a half decent machine(mine is core to quad q6600, 4g ram + 9600gt) and be prepared to deploy those sneaky tricks already mentioned plus many more..as for AA comparison, well, never say never but also never expect to be able to produce current gaming standards

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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:15
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I actually made a primitive 3d shooter
game, just for fun.
Durring the process of creating this small
game, i just did created a scene and did throw a matrix, a camera , some light,
as well as some cople of primitive , like "make cube"
texture and 1 premade shader from dark shader.
i then imported a 3ds model ( teapot), converted to
x format.
Every things working well, but its bit slow, properly
because of the 3d max imported model.
My pc is fast like hell. (well thats what i think!).
Spec: intel icore7 quadcore 3,4 ghz, asus
Motherboard, win 7 pro , 64 bit.
8 gigs of ram, ddr3.
Geforce gts 450 pcie.

I know, regarding dark basic pro, its compiling
could never achieve near c++ speed nor assembler
code speed, even if i used another game engine like
Leadwerk ?!!!. I would properly have to use c++ and gdk. ?.
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Latch
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:20 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 21:54
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One of the things to be careful of is resource size. Specifically image/texture resolutions. You really never need a texture as large as or larger than your screen resolution. Most textures are applied to objects that do not fill the entire screen. And tiled textures on buildings and such make up for most differences. If you are smart with your textures and screen size (you really don't need high screen resolutions), you can get very good results and increased performance.

Limit your textures to power of 2 sizes: 64x64, 128x128, 256x256, 512x512 etc. Even though DBPro and/or your graphics card will accept textures with odd resolutions, they will be converted to power of 2 sizes internally thus decreasing performance and also likely distorting the image slightly while compensating for the conversion.

Keep your sound files small if possible. For sound effects, your better off using monophonic sounds and relying on DirectX's 3D spacial positioning. For most sound effects you probably don't need a sampling frequency higher than 22050. For music, you probably want stereo. If you can use OGG files, they have a little bit better frequency handling than MP3 and thus a little clearer on the high end and are relatively the same size. Midi is also an option but you would likely not want to rely on the midi setups of any machines you would distribute to and have your own midi wavetables/synthesizer for DLS or soundfont playback.

Low polygon objects generally yield better performance than high polygon objects. Fewer objects give better performance than many objects even with the same total polygon count. This holds true for limbs as well.

Substitute real-time lighting with light mapping and/or clever texturing whenever possible.

Overall, if you consider your design very carefully, you can get exceptional results. The main slowdown is going to be in the rendering of 2d and 3d. If you can manage the graphic aspects well, I don't doubt you could do high end type games. I doubt you'd find too much performance difference in the math or looping between DBPro and C++ . Of course there are exceptions to that last statement.

Enjoy your day.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:25
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Catathrennia , looks really good, beautyfull gfx, properly as good
as COD 2, related to gfx, from what i can see
From the pictures!
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Sasuke
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:39
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To add to Latch's post, check out every plugin possible, for instance Advance2d plugin so you can do batching for massive performance boost. And a ton of others...

You may not like using plugins but it's a necessary part of DBP cause it would be impossible to do some things without them.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:40
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To Latch.
no, i cant do high end types games, i wish.
But my qestion was really releated to, how
well the dark basic pro could perform regarding
render, how far you could get away, pusing
DBP to the absolut limits, concuring speed, gfx, etc.
In general and more, allso as a programmer in
General, not specific to anyone.
More how would one, implemtet, intregrate
special techniques, that allow the game to be
optimized, run much faster.
I guess i all about squeezing every bit and byte
out of dark basic pro, and as you mentioned in
your post, reduce texture image size, use light mapping,
pre-rendered light graphics, compressing audio, memblocks, etc.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 21:45
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Thanks guys.

i dont think dark basic pro is that bad.
i've check out the neccersy plugins, later on.
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Latch
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:05 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 22:08
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@henrikh2008
There used to be a DarkBASIC Classic and a DBPro showcase board. You'd be amazed with what some people pulled off even 10 years ago with those engines.

Within the last five years this has been done:

The Last Half of Darkness

The series was originally done in DarkBASIC Classic but I think the later chapters were done in DBPro. This demonstrates a little "trickery" used to display a ray traced rendered environment with the DB engine.

Enjoy your day.
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basjak
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:16
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You can create any game with dB pro. The limit is you.

Am quiet surprised when someone compares c++ to dB pro. Although they're both programming languages but dbpro is considered as an engine powered by DLLs while c++ is powered by a second level compiler.

So you can make any game or application you want. no slowing no hassle but you.

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Doomster
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:17 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 22:17
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Quote: "FPS Creator uses DX 10+"

Only the discontinued "FPS Creator X10" application relies on DX10 - Catathrenia however is developed using the normal "FPS Creator", thus it's running on the unaltered DBP and DX9.

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Dar13
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:29
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Quote: "FPS Creator uses DX 10+"

No it does not. That's FPS Creator X10 and is a separate product. The FPS Creator that Catathrenia was made in was the traditional DX9 version.

Quote: "I do not know about you. Those games reminds me of old days - DOS 3D games graphics."

Even Catathrenia?


Perhaps Mega Mash Mothers is a bit dated in the graphics department, I'll admit.

Quote: "Geforce gts 450 pcie"

That's why it wasn't as fast as you thought it should be. The GTS 450 is a mid-range card, like most of the other GTS series. Plus I'm sure you have a bottleneck somewhere in your code(almost everyone does, even in my C++ code) that slows down your game.

Quote: "it would be wasted efforts to try producing such a game where you might aswell just code in C with no hassle"

Programming in C/C++ is a pain in the butt compared to DBP. It also takes a lot longer to get to the skill level that's required to make a game similar to COD 2 or COD 4 in C++ compared to DBPro.

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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:44
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Yes, its quite amazing, what you can do with
Dark Basic Pro.
I have been searching on the internet on dark basic pro
games, to see, how well dark basic pro does, graphics..
I must say, not to offend anyone, i am not surprised yet,
or chocked. I hope i find a great demo, with stunning super
super game with super graphics and speed.
That would mean to me, anyone, because, you
get inspirret, and want to achieve a better game
Programming knowledge.
i would never use standalone pure dark basic pro
commands, no, i would use every plugin dll and
Midi audio sequencer for the music. Blender, etc
Leadwerk and perhaps buy some exstra plugins
From the game creator website. It really worth investing
Money in dark basic pro as well as other product from
TGC.
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Wolf
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:51 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 22:57
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You can do things that look like this or

this

with ease and it runs still pretty well.

DBPro has the capability you need as a living room developer. You are not going to make a call of duty 4. Deal with it.

Quote: "DOS 3D games graphics"


Are you sure you remember these days correctly?

DUKE NUKEM 3D (DOS Aera)



Catathrenia (Dark Basic Pro based)



Wolfenstein 3D (DOS Aera)



Catathrenia (Dark Basic Pro based)



Unreal 1 (already ahead of the DOS Aera



Shavra: Dead Frequency (Dark Basic Pro based)



Alone in the dark (famous dos game)



The nephilism protocol (dark basic pro based game

imageflock.com/img/1337494518.png[/img]
imageflock.com/img/1337494564.png[/img]

DOOM 2 (more advanced dos game)


Samurai Legends (Dark Basic Pro based game)


I'm not saying that these games look high end...but comparing them to the DOS Times is a bit insulting for the artists involved...you are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.

Quote: "FPS Creator uses DX 10+"


No I made catathrenia...I know that FPSCreator does use X9 and only half of its potential.

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 22:57
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My pc its a build one, and was quite expensive,
thats why i had to cut down somewhere on
the budget, namly the graphics card, which isnt
that fast at all, i might consider upgrading to
a faster one, like geforce gts 580 ( i dont have
that much money).

Yes, i have a bottleneck in my code, because i didnt optimized the game
at all, i think i will rewrite the whole thing, optimize every
thing and reduce thr polygons in the 3d models as
well as use hard compressed materials for texture.
I am really not a gamer ( well thats not true, i usef
to play Tomb Raider 1-2-3-4-5 etc).
I love programming.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 23:15
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Quote: " DBPro has the capability you need as a living room developer. You are not going to make a call of duty 4. Deal with it."

No, no, who says i think i could achieve or acomplish
such a complex task, i couldnt.
I dont have to deal with it, as mentioned in my
earlier post, that i am not relating my question, regarding
dark basic pro in terms of creating games / speed.
to anyone specificly.
Read my other threads / post.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 23:20
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Samurai Legend look great.
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Olby
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 23:21
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Quote: "How far can you push Dark Basic Pro,
i mean could you getting away with doing
A "Call of Duty 2" or even "Call of Duty 4 modern
warefare" / battlefield newest release."


You can make a game like Quake 3 and if you're a genius Half-Life 2 but Call of Duty 4 - no.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
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Dimis
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 23:43
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I decided to post my thought here too, because my game was mentioned before in a post by Sergey K. (Dark Kumite)
Quote: "Dark Kumite was made in DBPro.
This game made in lots of different plugins"

That is misinforming. I didn't use any pluggins for the development of my game. I was surprised when I saw "lots of different plugins". Why would you think that?
Dark Basic Pro was my introduction to the development of 3d games. Before that, I was making 2d games in Visual Basic, so DBPro was an ideal package for me, to learn how 3d stuff works. At the beginning I was reading many positive and negative critics about DBpro so I decided to see myself what I can do with it.
I wanted to make a fighting game for 2 players, so I started coding and a couple of months later the basic core for my game was ready and running. I had no problem there. About graphics, all I can say is that DBpro will not offer cutting edge capabilities but you can do very good looking games with it. (What Wolf posted before, and more). In my game I don't use the full capabilities of DBPro, because of my extremely high poly models, for performance issues, but if I had the time to make also low poly versions of my models I could install shaders and make something visually better.
There are many other developing packages out there with more capabilities that DBpro. So a developer should choose carefully the best tool for the game that he wants to make, but the package will not make the game for him.
So my opinion is that, it is not a matter of what the package can do when pushed to the limit, but what a developer can do with the package itself.


Off topic.
Quote: "The heat, in denmark we have 29 celsius deegrees, pew!)."

29 celsius is heat for Denmark? I am jealous! I am setting my air conditioner to 27 because In the morning it is 38 outside.



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Sasuke
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:06 Edited at: 29th Jul 2012 00:08
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You can simplify this debate by simply looking at how many people use DBP for commercial use... honestly I can only think of one known one. Also I've been on here for years and programmed with many people that usually leave and go on to more powerful languages because DBP just isn't up to the task.

But it's brilliant for the hobbiest.
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Dimis
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:13
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Quote: "But it's brilliant for the hobbiest."

I fully agree. There are many things that make DBPro not suitable for commercial use, like lack of multiple platform support just to name one.


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henrikh2008
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:14
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38 degrees, thats to much.
right now, there is a low pressure, it makes it
diffcult to stand the heat.

To Dimis. Youre from greece!.
I am going to Crete in a few months, by the way.
Thats not Greece, but atleast Greece culture and
people. I love greek food and culture.
Now i have to look for my self, to see if the
greek legend / myth of the minitarous and the
famous labyrinth is true, ha ha.
Greek myths is quite beautyfull.
Yanni is quite awsome.
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Dimis
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:26
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Quote: "I am going to Crete in a few months, by the way.
Thats not Greece"

Oh careful, don't say that when you're at Crete. Crete is the lowest located island of Greece. You know, people there get angry if you say something like that, those days. (Although many people would rather live anywhere else than Greece lately)

Sorry for the off topic talk again guys.

Another thing on the subject of graphics. Samurai legends has some of the best graphics for a DBPro game. But comparing the new screenshots that Irradic uploaded after he moved the game to Unity Pro, well the deference is obvious. But that doesn't mean that his earlier work in DBPro was bad. I liked the game even before.


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henrikh2008
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:27
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Quote: " You can simplify this debate by simply looking at how many people use DBP for commercial use..."


What about C++ GDK , could this be used for
Commercial use, in terms of speed etc ?.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:34
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Dont get me wrong, i mean its. not at the same
location as Greece or Athen.
I know, crete is part of Greece.
Sorry if i offended you.
Sorry for my bad spelling.
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Dimis
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 00:36 Edited at: 29th Jul 2012 00:38
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Never used Dark GDK, but I think that it is better for Commercial use. Carnage is developed with Dark GDK i think, and it is sponsored by TGC for commercial use.

Edit

Not offended, you got me wrong. I was just trying to be funny, in my own stupid way...



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basjak
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 01:33 Edited at: 29th Jul 2012 01:34
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I bet with everyone that we can make call of duty with dB pro. Bring me the team and let's start gambling.

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Juggernaut
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 01:36
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@Wolf: Yes I do. Catherina looks promising but Kumitie fighter does not impress- character animations are more like DOS based games Jerky, un-natural.
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Dimis
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Sorry, I will respond to that.
Quote: "character animations are more like DOS based games Jerky, un-natural"

Seriously? I mean, my game is not MK9 quality, but DOS like games? Of what, the 1995-2000 period? Unless you are judging by my Youtube videos with the fragmented video capture.


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Latch
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 03:15 Edited at: 29th Jul 2012 03:21
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@henrikh2008
Actually, you could do anything with DBpro. Even High end commercial grade stuff if you have the skill and the patience to figure out ways of doing it. There are good things and bad things about asking on the forums what can be done. Most users are casual hobbiests, and really haven't pushed DB to it's limits. A lot of responses are based on things others have read and never tried themselves or they are just by those that don't have experience with using extremely limited systems and getting what may have been considered impossible to be done - done on those systems.

I tinker mostly with DarkBASIC Classic (DBC). That is really outdated by about 12 years. But I am constantly surprised when I manage to do something that is supposed to be beyond DBC's capabilities (that's what makes it fun to play with). And since DBPro compiles to a machine readable form, the doors are much wider open than you may be led to believe.

A project may or may not need any plugins or extras at all, but only experience can really determine what is needed. It's easy to over-bloat a program and to make it exteremly inefficient by throwing everything you can think of into it. You don't even know if a particular plugin or library is well coded and may add bottleknecks to your code that you don't expect or can't bug-fix.

So, I believe you can do just about anything you want with DBPro, but I think it takes experience, programming skill, patience, and general programming understanding. Opinions are definately helpful from the forums, but most of us don't write game engines or compilers, or haven't programmed complete, complex games. The size of textures you'll see many DBPro users use, demonstrates a lack of experience and graphic creation/manipulation ability. I don't mean that as an insult, I just mean that many users haven't done enough graphic design with limited resources to be able to be ultra-efficient with those minimal resources. There are many things that separate an amature from a professional and it's not necessarily the programming environment.

If you are a beginner, it won't matter what language you use. Chances are, you won't make a good game. However, DBPro can put you on the road faster by handling a ton of the setup for you.

Enjoy your day.
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TheComet
17
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Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 05:10 Edited at: 29th Jul 2012 05:13
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Quote: "Mega Mash Mothers was made in DBPro.
this one never finished."


That's more because I lost all motivation to finish it.

From a performance perspective Mega Mash Mothers had plenty of speed. If I had the motivation to finish it, the game would be working fine.

LightShip is now pretty much a finished game and is able to handle over 15'000 objects, all with emissive parallax shaders. It also has real time refraction effects and online gameplay. I think that's good proof that it is indeed possible to make a good game in DBP.

TheComet

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henrikh2008
15
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Joined: 25th Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 11:06
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Well, i dont think i am a beginner.
I have been using visual basic 6 , and net, basic
for more just than a few yeas. i did some small
Project in c++. Wrote a couple of primitive
Pong, tic tac or what ever its called.
And a whole cms, newsletter system in php,
mysql. bla, bla. Now its not about me, but more
about the question , pussing dark basic pro to
Its limits.
Guys, be nice to itogether, i mean i am shure
lots of the games has nice graphics and some
even better etc.
When i a thinking of other game engine and
other game developing tools, i guess dark basic pro
properly should need to be optimized, so the
Compiler should make the dark basic pro
alot faster, when making games.
and for the making of COD 2, that is if anyone
wants to try, perhaps i would be "easy" just
to create the first level , or just a very small
part of the game, using, nothing but a terrain /
matrix, light , camera, sky cube, jpg texture, a
couple of premade shader, game loop, mousex -y.
And a few model of tanks, soldier, you can get
these model on the internet.
Use a modelling editor like 3d max or blender,
Import the models and use the tool optimie mesh,
to reduce polygons count. use a program like
Darktree or speedtree.
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henrikh2008
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Location: Denmark
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 11:22
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Properly not that easy.
For the music, create you own gamescore in
any midi \ audio sequencer , like cubase 4-5,
music maker and perhaps a video editor, like
powerproducer 8-9.
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Juggernaut
13
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 18:06
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Quote: "Sorry, I will respond to that.
Quote: "character animations are more like DOS based games Jerky, un-natural"
Seriously? I mean, my game is not MK9 quality, but DOS like games? Of what, the 1995-2000 period? Unless you are judging by my Youtube videos with the fragmented video capture.
"


Yes I did not play the game - I commented on your youtube videos.
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 18:12
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Quote: "Never used Dark GDK, but I think that it is better for Commercial use. Carnage is developed with Dark GDK i think, and it is sponsored by TGC for commercial use.

Edit

Not offended, you got me wrong. I was just trying to be funny, in my own stupid way...
"


But Fallout the creator told me once that he wrote it in Dark Basic Pro.
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henrikh2008
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Location: Denmark
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 18:57
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sorry, didnt mean like that.
Most DBP users has put lots of efforts in creating games, and its a hard work.
newbies that starting to learn programming and has never programmed before
and trying to make there first game strugling to learn how to program, shure
their game wont properly look pretty first time.
thats what i mean.
and there is lots of programmers in this forum with lots of skills and talent.

by the way, i just found a alternative free solution to Zbrush, which
you can create fantastic charecter for you games, its quite awsome.

its called SCULPTRIS and is from the same company, that created Zbrush, wow!.

link:



http://www.pixologic.com/sculptris/

allso another modelling charecter editor, which i found, link below.

Makehuman.

http://www.makehuman.org/

Do try Terragen 2.4, its fantastic.
they have exporters to 3d max and other formats, for free.
and a lot more.

Hexagon 2.5 and bryce Pro 7 si for free, the real deal.

PS. only for a limited time!.

genesis 4 landsscape generator.



http://www.geomantics.com/genesis4.htm

Daz studio 4 for free.

Daz bridge. let you import 3d models directly to photoshop cs4 / cs5.
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henrikh2008
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 19:43
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did try genesis 4 landsscape generator, its a poor program, so just forget
about this one.
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Seppuku Arts
Moderator
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 21:22
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Quote: "But Fallout the creator told me once that he wrote it in Dark Basic Pro."


iirc he started it in Dark Basic Pro and then moved to Dark GDK. Dark GDK offers more speed, compiles quicker and offers more flexibility too, but of course, you need to understand C++, but arguable, Dark GDK is a nice step into learning C++ if you already know hoe to use Dark Basic Pro, because you know most of the commands you'll used, you just need to learn how to use them. If Dark GDK tickles your fancy, Dark GDK 2.0 seems like a decent improvement and is currently a release candidate and you can purchase the early adopter at $30.

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Hell_666
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Joined: 11th Jul 2009
Location: France
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 21:26
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Evolved made this and it runs fine :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh1BApxIUxo&feature=player_embedded

DBPro can render great if you use good shaders and if you don't waste frame rate

Eternal suffering ...

I'm french
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 22:53
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Quote: "Quote: "But Fallout the creator told me once that he wrote it in Dark Basic Pro."

iirc he started it in Dark Basic Pro and then moved to Dark GDK. Dark GDK offers more speed, compiles quicker and offers more flexibility too, but of course, you need to understand C++, but arguable, Dark GDK is a nice step into learning C++ if you already know hoe to use Dark Basic Pro, because you know most of the commands you'll used, you just need to learn how to use them. If Dark GDK tickles your fancy, Dark GDK 2.0 seems like a decent improvement and is currently a release candidate and you can purchase the early adopter at $30."


Yes I have bought Dark GDK 2.0 license. And I am excited about the final release version.
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kordman916
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Posted: 25th Aug 2012 13:08
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For an example of what DBPro can do check out Mike Inel. He's made some pretty amazing games using DBPro. Shame he doesn't do it anymore...

(Just one of his projects.)
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142969&b=5

Asus N53Sn, Core i7 2.9ghz,
16 Gig DDR3 ram, Geforce 550M 2Gb
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