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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] "FPS Creator Reloaded - Project submitted to KickStarter"

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RickV
TGC Development Director
26
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 13:29
Hi,

The TGC team have decided to launch a Kickstarter fund from the beginning of November for a project called "FPS Creator Reloaded"

This will be a significant upgrade to the original FPS Creator. So all your existing games and media will work in this new version.

We felt it made much more sense to take the current product and enhance it in the areas where it is weak.

Details will be released when we go live on Kickstarter.

We hope to raise the necessary funds to develop the tool and hope you can back us in this. The more funds we raise, the more features we can add (yes, we'll have stretch goals).

Exciting times!

Rick, Lee & the TGC Team.

Financial Director
TGC Team
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
20
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Location: Bahrain
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 13:51
Quote: "We felt it made much more sense to take the current product and enhance it in the areas where it is weak."


Wait, so it's not going to be a complete rewrite?


Slenderman's Shadow - Sanatorium
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=199408&b=35
Deathcow
FPSC Reloaded Backer
20
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Location: Right here!
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 14:07 Edited at: 15th Oct 2012 14:08
This is great news.

I like the idea of an upgrade has it will make more sense for those still working on projects that wish to transfer it to the new version once it is out.

Best of Luck TGC

DC
The Nerevar
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Location: Vvardenfell
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 14:14
What about that FPS Creator 2?

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
Nickydude
Retired Moderator
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Location: Look outside...
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 14:19
Quote: " We felt it made much more sense to take the current product and enhance it in the areas where it is weak."


Really? That's disappointing. I'm only going off the above quote but it seems that's what Scene Commander is doing now, enhancing certain areas. I would have rather have seen it built from the ground up using up to date technology.

I'm not so sure about funding it now as it seem you're building off old code.

Having said that, I don't know what you're going to do so I could be persuaded.

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
The Nerevar
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Location: Vvardenfell
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 14:21
Is this another one of those "migrations"? The thing that I was all worked up for, only to be quite disappointed, because I wanted things to be more like x10.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:00
I will reserve my opinion until more info comes in, but it now sounds like a major withdrawal from the previous offer.

Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Location: Bahrain
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:15
This is Rick's quote from the other thread:

Quote: "Hi all,

this feedback has been brilliant and we've noted it all down and reviewed the survey too.

From a company point of view we felt that starting a full development again would most likely take far too long. The original FPSC started back in 2005, so you can see how much work has been put into the original.

So we are now seriously considering a significant upgrade to Version 1 - currently called "FPS Creator Reloaded". This would mean we can deliver a product quicker to you with all the great things that V1 offers and all the new wonderful features will pack into this major update.

We think this is most sensible approach.

We will be launching the Kickstarter on the 1st November 2012 with a 30 day funding window.

Rick
"



Slenderman's Shadow - Sanatorium
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=199408&b=35
michael x
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:32
I find this to be good news so far. it does not mean it wont be rebuild. it just means they may rebuild it like they did x10 in the same form of fpsc. keeping it to be a easy to use at the same time backwards compatible with all the model packs we own. so basically it going to be like how x10 started out with all the features from day one. one thing everyone have to understand is fpscx9 &x10 is the same software. but x10 was a rebuild from fpscx9 with a lot of improvement. knowing what they may heave done wrong with fpsc they may do right with fpsc Reloaded. they would have to rebuild fpsc to make these improvement right. I would hope that in the rebuild there will be a fpsc 64bit version.

more than what meets the eye

Welcome to SciFi Summer
Poloflece
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:37
Without an increase in engine power I can't really see a reason to back/purchase this. It would still most certainly require large performance enhancements aswell as the other features suggested by users in order to be a worthy purchase and to sell well.

Poloflece

TheK
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:38
Good day,

well, if the "major update" will contain all (or most) of the requested features, then I will totally be in with financial means.

But personally I think that a complete rewrite would have made more sense.

Greetings,
Jan

Skype name: thek491
da2020
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:42
Well this is a tad disappointing I really think FPSC 2 is the chance to improve the core mechanics of the engine itself and really update it to keep up with modern day gaming.I think the current v1 is a mess right now and I think the engine where it is written is really its limitation so I'm pretty much expecting a fresh rewrite into a different, more powerful engine than DBpro. But hey, looking into the bright side I think this holds more promises than I'm expecting so don't take my words for it.
Omegamer
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 15:47
If its will be more than just a few more scripting actions, with realtime shadows, better multiplayer etc.I'm in.
Im a bit dissappointed there will not be a V2 this time but I hope the upgrade will be as good as possible
MTC Music
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Location: Montreal
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 16:12
Well, I still think that this is amazing news seeing as FPSC 9 really needs an overhaul and at the low price that they sell it for, this cannot be done without significant funds. There are many great things in FPSC 9 that are perfect just as they are so why fix what ain't broke? I would love to see all the new features that you talked about in the promo email you sent, but that doesnt mean scrap everything and start over!
I'm 150% behind the "reload" and i know this can't just be done for free. It takes money to develop. Count me in. I am ready to do my part to revamp FPSC into a better, more stabe, cross-platform 3D game power developer machine!

Tom

www.mtcmusic.ca
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 16:27
Quote: "There are many great things in FPSC 9 that are perfect just as they are so why fix what ain't broke?"


Because lots of things are broken, things that go right down to the core - the physics system is a joke, the multiplayer system is pretty much useless, character performance is abysmal, the segment system is extremely inefficient, the map size is limiting, and no support for terrain. If they solve all these issues, they'll be pretty much rewriting sizeable chunks of the code, in which case I'd be happy for it to be an update. But I'll wait till I hear more before I pass judgement.


Slenderman's Shadow - Sanatorium
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=199408&b=35
ASTECH
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 17:00 Edited at: 15th Oct 2012 17:02
So much more of the old and not more of the new huh? If it still runs on 1 core and gets memory capped just as bad... I think I will stick with the current FPSC. I don't see how paying for virtually the same thing makes any sense when I already own it.

Scene Commander's and all the other past updates have put FPSC in its golden state. Now you go back to base V1 where its still founded upon 1 core, a severe memory cap, and a dated lighting system (among other things)... I just don't get it. I probably won't be throwing in any sort of investment into this since it seems a performance bottleneck will still still be rampant.

If you are really doing this for the customer and not for your own wallets, then I think it is imperative you listen to the customers. Isn't that not customer support 101, or should be? Granted you cannot do it all but it seems like you have overlooked the HUGE and the more prominent requests.

PC Specs: AMD X4 2.7Ghz, 8GB DDR3 RAM, Nvidia 9800GT, Win. 7 Pro 64 Bit
Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 17:03
I'm with xplosys and reserving my thoughts until I know more about it.

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 20:04
I think you guys will really want to wait for the roll-out; there's more than likely more involved than what you're thinking.....stand by.

-Keith

BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 20:07
Quote: "I think you guys will really want to wait for the roll-out; there's more than likely more involved than what you're thinking"


Exactly. Best to wait and see rather than the theories and comments run rampant.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 21:01
Hi,

We're still listening to what you are writing here. The plan is still being worked on so please keep commenting.

Rick

Financial Director
TGC Team
Ldewitt
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 21:33
Quote: "This will be a significant upgrade to the original FPS Creator. So all your existing games and media will work in this new version.

We felt it made much more sense to take the current product and enhance it in the areas where it is weak."


Does that mean that it will be added to the current FPSC version or will it be another, standalone application like X10 was?
michael x
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 21:48
I think you guys are thinking this way too far.i think it going to be a rebuild just a better improve fpscv1 from the start. but we have to wait and see what is the list of goodies. but for one will only support a 64bit version. most likely memory wont be an issue and limits will not be set in fpsc so easily.

but this was the list of some things given to TGC.

Left hand and Duel wielding.
Terrain, larger maps.
Improved memory consumption.
Faster level loading/reloading.
Multiple Character weapons.
3rd person.
Improved physics.
Tracers/Laser beams.
Flak in multiplayer.
Level of Detail system.
Timescale - for slow motion, etc.
Real time shadows.
Improved lightmapping
Image huds for ammo/health, etc rather than the numeric system.
Hud fade direction.
Mini Map.
Random spawn locations.
Inventory system.
Hold to zoom.
Windowed mode.

I believe this will be good for fpsc and in hope of them taking the way fpscx10 was set up with instance effect change within the test build. that is what fpsc is missing the most. allowing the developer to change effect and skybox in realtime. I personally would not ask for too much out of this fpsc reload because it all depends on how much money we rise for this.

more than what meets the eye

Welcome to SciFi Summer
MrValentine
AGK Backer
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 22:39
Tagging in to keep tabs on where RELOADED goes

Also want to add, CoD uses an 8? year old engine though it is built upon... so have some patience

I would love to see PhysX used in the next release... or at least optional...

The Nerevar
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 23:18
Adding x10 enemies, and x10 features.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 23:23
Quote: "Also want to add, CoD uses an 8? year old engine though it is built upon... so have some patience
"
\

But that is a professional engine... This is very indie

"Everyone may doubt me, but you're just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
MrValentine
AGK Backer
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 15th Oct 2012 23:33
Quote: "But that is a professional engine... This is very indie"


You do realise CoD is made by an Indie team right? who was bought out? [I could be wrong but I am going from memory...]

Also... there are a good few examples where FPSC was used to produce something different... what was that game called again... that fear style one... I could be wrong but I am very sure if you develop an engine enough on top of the basics you will do what the CoD team had done...

Anyway forget what I said... it is not my area of expertise...

3D Game Maker 4 EVER
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 23:37
Quote: "I think you guys are thinking this way too far.i think it going to be a rebuild just a better improve fpscv1 from the start. but we have to wait and see what is the list of goodies. but for one will only support a 64bit version. most likely memory wont be an issue and limits will not be set in fpsc so easily.

but this was the list of some things given to TGC.

Left hand and Duel wielding. (//Like Soldier of fortune where you press the gun action 1 key with that pistol and he switches which hand it's in?)
Terrain, larger maps. (//Heck yes...)
Improved memory consumption. (//I know right? It could be a bit better)
Faster level loading/reloading. (//Possible with multicore support)
Multiple Character weapons.
3rd person. (//In fps creator??)
Improved physics. (//I could go for that, but we need multicore support)
Tracers/Laser beams.
Flak in multiplayer.
Level of Detail system. (//That will surely help in optimization)
Timescale - for slow motion, etc.
Real time shadows.
Improved lightmapping (Definitely, the lightmapping has been broken, it shows off the polygons in the segment or entity)
Image huds for ammo/health, etc rather than the numeric system. (Maybe even animated?)
Hud fade direction.
Mini Map.
Random spawn locations.
Inventory system.
Hold to zoom.
Windowed mode. (//This will help with recording with an external program if it doesn't detect the D3d/ opengl window already)

I believe this will be good for fpsc and in hope of them taking the way fpscx10 was set up with instance effect change within the test build. that is what fpsc is missing the most. allowing the developer to change effect and skybox in realtime. I personally would not ask for too much out of this fpsc reload because it all depends on how much money we rise for this."


If there was realtime shadows, please make it configurable.
Like if it's soft shadows, or hard shadows like in DooM 3 or FEAR.

Also here's the list I made awhile back:
"Can you please add tickers to enable/disable certain PostProcess shaders on the fly within testing? Or maybe outside of testing and from preferences or something?
Hmmm, I seem to have alot of ideas, I should make a list!
Built-in script editor
Built-in modeling software
Built-in audio editor, or external, there's audacity and such..
The option to use Vanilla FPSC lighting (The new system shows off the polygons while bloom is enabled, in fact it still shows them off when it's entirely off...)
Advanced post processing shaders (Sun shafts, Bokeh Filter, HDR, light adaptation, DoF, Flare outs/short sun shafts, etc.)
Shoulder-cam
Modifiable Gun Sounds (Which is possible, but then you'll have to replace the vanilla sounds... bleh..)
Other Advanced shaders (Cel Shading, color editing (Controllable saturation, brightness, and hue, in either every single color, or just every pixel in every texture that is red)
Tessellation
Top Secret Tessellated Pizza!
Built-in GUI-X9 gui editor
Rotatable camera in editing
Better blood splattering (Every time I see blood splatters they're usually on a wall and not on a floor)
Modifiable blood splatter size
Importable textures
Built-in decal editor
Built-in segment editor
Health bar support (Rather than numbers)
Multiple languages for adding custom code to fpsc (Like java, DarkBasic, C++, C#, etc.. But all scripts in the game must be the same language so there won't be a CTD)
Better entity rotation editing (Using keys 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, and 8 to rotate makes re really confused, can there me something mouse-based, or arrowkeys-based?)
Modifiable entity size (Attack of the Giant Flying Skull! Dun dun dunnn!)
RPG Elements/Player stats (I mean if we're gonna have dialog choices and stuff, why not make an rpg fps with tessellated pizza?)
World save data (Example: You are in street 1, you go to street 2 and you see the loading screen, it loads and you're in street 2, you wanna go back to street 1, as you get there the objects you've moved are in the same place as they we're prior to your trip to street 2 and back. Think Fallout 3, you move something and leave, you come back and it's still in the same place prior to when you left, after you moved it. What else.... Oh, postal 2 I think had this, maybe.. I'm not quite sure, I do hope you know what I'm talking about when I mean world save data)
Entity, Prefab, and Segment search (Ever was looking for a certain entity but couldn't find it in that massive library of entities and segments? I'm basically suggesting you add a search bar )
Model based level design (Instead of segments)
Small segments (For people who want to add alot of detail, but not make a room that's 50 meters wide and long, without the model based level)
Gridless Event objects (Toggleable placement grid for zones, and fully customizable zone sizes)
Field of View******** (VERY IMPORTANT, I bet we all remember the good 'ol days when quake 3 arena was out )
Optional ironsights
Micro transaction support **Ingame currency earned by playing** (Though it may be possible through scripting, it's still a good idea because not everyone may know fpi or dark basic or java or whatever)
Power ups (Fully customizable power ups that modify player stats either permanently or temporarily)
Ingame DarkVoices Editor (Not as powerful, but enough to get you through)
That's all for now.. I might contact you to submit more, which can be either supplied via update, or expansion, it's your call anyways :/"

Other additions to my list:
-Gibbing
-Gibbing editor
-Effect editor
-Configurable health/medkits (If you wanted the small health entity to give you 2000 instead of 50 or somethin'

ee Waka waka waka... Nevermore..
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DarkJames
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 23:37
How about an advanced system of entity and segment packing? adding entities to prefabs? Again, lighter-sized lightmapping is a must.

------
Teabone
Valued Member
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Location: Canada
Posted: 16th Oct 2012 00:14 Edited at: 19th Oct 2012 04:43
I think it would be a good idea for the team to review the entire forums for all requests that were brought up this year. I must say though... I've been using FPSC for a very long time. Even though my forum join date suggests only 7 years. There are issues from day one that still remain.

Here's my issues with FPSC 1, and please read for I've been around a while lol

Physics System

physics system needs dramatic improvements. I'm still getting stuck in static entities. Its incredibly frustrating to hear its happened to people that play our games we make or even sell- without the ability to fix. Jumping on to these objects can sometimes result in the player floating off of them or getting stuck in some cases. This has been an issue of mine for years.

Terrain

FPSC is built in a very blocky linear way in terms of terrain. I'd love to be able to add some bumps, slopes, inclines and declines. I understand we can make our own entities or segments for this but yet again it goes back to the issues of physics. I generally get stuck in even small hills.

Text
The on-screen text scripts are not good enough. I'm not talking about image huds. But the ability to have multi-line text would be nice. To display several strings and variables in them. Also the ability to use symbols. If there is conflict with symbols maybe do what HTML does and have something like ";nsbd" or whatever is it, display the symbol.

Map Editor
Be nice to see the water-zone entities listed in the marker section along with lights and trigger zones. I'd also love to see some directional lights. Also a music trigger zone would be a nice addition. Where as the player steps on it and the music is changed. Very simple to script but be nice to have right there.

If the help section could include perhaps a link to the scripting commands pdf. I've seen some great resources on here provided by the community where all of the current script and actions and use are explained.

For entity properties It be cool if we could edit more within FPSC rather than going in to the FPE files all the time. Also the ability to edit the scaling of an object in the editor itself could be cool.

Free form rotating of objects
. Much like what's mentioned above where rather than pressing the number keys, the mouse could be utlized to rotate the entity softly on x,y and z.

Dynamic Shadows

I'd love to see dynamic shadows and the ability to toggle them on or and off in the preference menu, for test builds, would be nice.

Inventory System

I think this is a must have feature. Most of us have been busting our a**'s off for years trying to make a working inventory system, for those of us that don't use mods. I must say I've wasted months of time trying to create inventory systems. I'd love to see a basic system built-in that could be customized by scripts or the option of choosing templates and colour.

Options Menu

A general options menu would be nice to control brightness, volumes (sfx and music) and y-axis viewing. Also a setup option menu would be great for the main menu. Where you can change all the options that would be in your setup file. I believe this is where you can change the resolution, culling-distance, anti-aliasing, shadow detail, texture detail, shaders (on/off) and things of that nature.

Sound Improvements

Sound sometimes can be the most important part of a game that helps create a sense of realism.

Be amazing if we could have 3D stero sound. If a sound occurs to the right of the player you hear it on the right. And the from the left, on your left speaker. 5.1 would be even sweeter if possible. I'd like for sounds to have distance as well. If a sound is generated from from the player, it shouldn't be as loud as if it was generated beside the player.

Directx9

One big issue I had with FPSC when distributing is I completely forget that most people are not going to take it upon themselves to find and install directx9 based on an error they may get from from our games' EXE. Was wondering if when someone attempt to execute that it would check to see if the right directx version is there and if not it would point to perhaps a link as to where to download it or it would attach itself in some way during builds and give an install option.

Hamburger
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Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posted: 16th Oct 2012 00:54 Edited at: 16th Oct 2012 00:55
Quote: "Built-in segment editor...Built-in modeling software
Built-in audio editor, or external, there's audacity and such.."


I think that one thing that we need to stop asking for is for so much built in software. Script editors are probably fine because thay are much easier to integrate, but modeling software? that will take a friggin long time on its own. Same for entity creation...

There should be a set tutorial that people can follow instead because leaving out a feature like this would be more sensible in my opiniion than wasting time creating countless code for inbuilt modeling or such software that in reality only half or less people would use.

On the other hand things like compiling fpes and importing models to make them into entity files are much easier to make, code, and are also useful.

Learn how to model, thats all I can say. The program shouldn't do the work for you...



IMO...

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++New Products Being Uploaded++
4125
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Location: Bronx, New York
Posted: 16th Oct 2012 01:08
Re-write or not. I simply want FPSCs performance to increase. While any new features would definitely be appreciated, I think the main problem with FPSC is the performance.

So far, V1.20 is doing alright but I feel that the engine could perform so much more better. If they could somehow add multi-core support and a slight larger memory cap or whatever to make FPSC run as stable and as smooth as it's suppose to. Then I'm all up for it.

Sadly, November will be my second hardest month financially. So I wouldn't be able to donate even if I could. So I'll simply wish the best of luck to TGC and this Kickstarter.

Waiting to see what exactly will happen to FPSC is the best choice. Even though I still feel the engine needs to be rebuild...

Intel Core i5 3570, Nvidia Gefocre GTX 560 OC 1024MB, 16GB RAM, P8H77-M Pro, Windows 7 Home Premium x64
seppgirty
FPSC Developer
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Location: pittsburgh, pa.
Posted: 16th Oct 2012 01:33
i figured this would happen when TGC mentioned about making DARK BASIC ELITE. they will work on them side by side. Like when FPSC10 was made.

someone mentioned multiplatform. That won't happen.

DID fpsc 10 support multi cpu's?

i would love to be able to toggle between 1st and 3rd person view.
have some sort of spellcasting for player and enimies.
an invintory system

i will wait to see the list of features they are planning before i decide.

gamer, lover, filmmaker
Norion
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Location: The Netherlands.
Posted: 16th Oct 2012 02:24
Quote: "DID fpsc 10 support multi cpu's?"


Yes.

I hope this upgrade will feature multi core cpu support.


- Martin

PC specs: CPU: Intel core i5-2400 3.1 Ghz 6Mb. GPU: Radeon HD 6850 2Gb. RAM: 24 Gb DDR 3. Case: CM Stormtrooper.
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Location: England
Posted: 16th Oct 2012 02:34 Edited at: 16th Oct 2012 02:36
Hi Guys,

Phew! A lot of feedback from Rick's post Obviously a lot of interest here The best time to feedback on 'Reloaded' is when you see the feature list on Kickstarter as we have some cool additions planned in this development.

I must point out (before I go to bed), is that a re-write is a MAJOR project and you would be waiting 12-18 months for even a sniff of a beta version. Writing something that took 5 years to write from scratch would be a huge undertaking, and that's not counting any additions to the design. We would also have the dilemma of founding a new architecture or keeping backwards compatibility (i.e legacy scripts, shaders, entity libraries, old levels).

Expanding on the current framework with 'Reloaded' means we keep backward compatibility with all custom assets, improve the games you have already created with a single click and get a new version of the product out in months instead of years.

I think we can all agree that FPSC V1 has some issue that need addressing, and the Reloaded project would address those. Every feature in the list comes direct from the community, not one of them comes from the FPSC team. We felt the best way to achieve this was Kickstarter, and the best way to gain your trust and support was to use the feedback you provided through these forums.

Having seen some of the internal feature prototypes, and the graphics being produced for the Kickstarter page, I'd be falling over myself to pledge this product into life, but the only way it's going to live is by painting a picture of something YOU really want. We're not going live with the final page until Kickstarter UK is live, so if you have a No. 1 feature you need to see before you make your pledge, chance are a hundred other users feel the same way so post here and it may just make it into the final feature list (it's already pretty big).

At the end of the day, this is your engine and you know what you want from the next version of the product. Rather than demand a total re-write, boil it down to the specific features you are most passionate about and voice them here. It's the only way we can incorporate them into the mandala we affectionately title the 'FPSC Reloaded Development Plan'. If you can keep your suggestions to the top three, that would help too

Hogging the awesome since 1999
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 03:38
My biggest desire from FPSC is that content creation tools are provided alongside, or as purchasable tools at most. They should be the same kind of "click-to-create" system that FPSC was built off of, rather than overpriced, complicated software.

Hello one and all...
Soviet176
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 04:48 Edited at: 16th Oct 2012 04:48
Quote: "Hi Guys,

Phew! A lot of feedback from Rick's post Obviously a lot of interest here The best time to feedback on 'Reloaded' is when you see the feature list on Kickstarter as we have some cool additions planned in this development.

I must point out (before I go to bed), is that a re-write is a MAJOR project and you would be waiting 12-18 months for even a sniff of a beta version. Writing something that took 5 years to write from scratch would be a huge undertaking, and that's not counting any additions to the design. We would also have the dilemma of founding a new architecture or keeping backwards compatibility (i.e legacy scripts, shaders, entity libraries, old levels).

Expanding on the current framework with 'Reloaded' means we keep backward compatibility with all custom assets, improve the games you have already created with a single click and get a new version of the product out in months instead of years.

I think we can all agree that FPSC V1 has some issue that need addressing, and the Reloaded project would address those. Every feature in the list comes direct from the community, not one of them comes from the FPSC team. We felt the best way to achieve this was Kickstarter, and the best way to gain your trust and support was to use the feedback you provided through these forums.

Having seen some of the internal feature prototypes, and the graphics being produced for the Kickstarter page, I'd be falling over myself to pledge this product into life, but the only way it's going to live is by painting a picture of something YOU really want. We're not going live with the final page until Kickstarter UK is live, so if you have a No. 1 feature you need to see before you make your pledge, chance are a hundred other users feel the same way so post here and it may just make it into the final feature list (it's already pretty big).

At the end of the day, this is your engine and you know what you want from the next version of the product. Rather than demand a total re-write, boil it down to the specific features you are most passionate about and voice them here. It's the only way we can incorporate them into the mandala we affectionately title the 'FPSC Reloaded Development Plan'. If you can keep your suggestions to the top three, that would help too "


Alright, I will bite. The major things I would like to see addressed before I put money into this is simple. The Memory problem must be eliminated. Yes I know it can’t be completely eliminated but it needs to match current modern engines at minimum! Terrain w/ physics with larger map sizes is a must! The memory issue must go. And multi-core support.

Flatlander
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 05:20
I am quite satisfied with the way v1.20 is shaping up. Especially since I can use my mod. I will not even suggest the use of mods. Well, that would be great if possible, however the following needs to be addressed:

1. 64 bit with 4GB of virtual memory.
2. Larger maps.
3. Ability to create outdoor levels without loss of performance.

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
MrValentine
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 05:26
Quote: "1. 64 bit with 4GB of virtual memory. "


Why stop at 4? Surely you mean 4+

Flatlander
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 05:49
I am not sure but I think 64 bit can only go to 4GB. 32 bit only can handle 2GB.

The patch that I use for my 64bit OS on fpsc-game.exe will only patch for 4GB.

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
MrValentine
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 05:57
that is likely because it is a patch for a 32bit application in a 32bit environment... My guess is it is simply doubling the memory address... but I am still new to all that... but from what I understand you can string two memory allocations to a single source or something...

But yeah even 4GB will be nice... I guess... but is that including the Graphics Memory addressing?

Flatlander
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 06:20 Edited at: 16th Oct 2012 06:24
When I'm talking about 2GB vs 4GB, I'm talking about virtual memory. This is the memory that is used when the game is "compiled." Right now it is capped at 1.8GB but I turn the cap off and with the patch I get 4GB. I can have a light texture of 1024 and light quality of 75 to 100 on even a pretty large level map. So, this doesn't include the Graphics Memory addressing nor the total ram that the system machine has.

You may be right if the OS is 64 bit and the software is compatible with 64 bit OS and the hardware. Maybe one can get more than 4GB of virtual memory. I don't know a lot about this stuff either so if someone else wants to chime in, please do.

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
3D Game Maker 4 EVER
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 06:35
Quote: "I am not sure but I think 64 bit can only go to 4GB. 32 bit only can handle 2GB.

The patch that I use for my 64bit OS on fpsc-game.exe will only patch for 4GB.
"

I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, and have 16GB of DDR3 Random
Access Memory.
Grrr, google chrome is using so much right now.. My pc is currently using 9.52GB of 16.4GB
(16366MB total, rounded to the nearest number, it's 16.4GB total..)

ee Waka waka waka... Nevermore..
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michael x
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 06:42
there is no limit to 64bit you can go higher than 4gb. but i would not suggest that. not everyone who owns a 64bit have more than 4gb especially laptops.

but my biggest want would be a full on 64bit support.

now all there is to do is wait and see. well i will see how this turns out on the list but i doubt this will happen so all well.

aside to that now its clear no rewrite. I understand why it makes since. I almost wish fpscx10 was getting this reload instead.

more than what meets the eye

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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 08:17
Quote: "there is no limit to 64bit "


There is a limit. See here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7

Quote: "not everyone who owns a 64bit have more than 4gb especially laptops."


While this may be true. Upgrading your RAM is the easiest and cheapest solution to getting better performance on your PC. RAM is also very cheap. So the limit would be your motherboard, which most from past 2006 should support more than 4GB.

Quote: "I turn the cap off and with the patch I get 4GB. I can have a light texture of 1024 and light quality of 75 to 100 on even a pretty large level map"


That patch, while it helps, it seems to cause a another problem for me. If I build your game, gave it multiple levels. On of the levels would not load. No error, no nothing. The Loading bar would simply be stuck at a certain point and will never load. At that point, I simply took a long break from FPSC because that, for me, ruined everything.

I can't ask for features that hasn't been already said. After all, all I care for from FPSC right now before anything is a stability and performance update. So Mulit-core support and whatever other tricks y'all can come up with will work for me...

Intel Core i5 3570, Nvidia Gefocre GTX 560 OC 1024MB, 16GB RAM, P8H77-M Pro, Windows 7 Home Premium x64
Flatlander
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 08:19
I'm talking about virtual memory and not installed RAM. I have 8 GB of installed RAM and 2GB of Graphics memory on graphics card.

This has always been confusing to people.

This will probably be a useless task for me but here is a more detailed explanation.

Virtual memory is an imaginary memory area supported by the windows operating system in conjunction with the hardware. The hardware can either support 32 bit or 64 bit addressing. You can think of virtual memory as an alternate set of memory addresses. Programs use these virtual addresses rather than real addresses to store instructions and data. When the program is actually executed, the virtual addresses are converted into real memory addresses.

The purpose of virtual memory is to enlarge the address space, the set of addresses a program can utilize. To facilitate copying virtual memory into real memory, the operating system divides virtual memory into pages, each of which contains a fixed number of addresses. Each page is stored on a disk until it is needed. When the page is needed, the operating system copies it from disk to main memory, translating the virtual addresses into real addresses.

The process of translating virtual addresses into real addresses is called mapping. The copying of virtual pages from disk to main memory is known as paging or swapping.

When FPSC is compiling your game, it stores data (such as light mapping data, textures and etc. into virtual memory. The program itself is using your installed RAM. 32 bit only has 2GB of these memory addresses and it will crash if the information that needs to be stored goes beyond this. The cap was put into place so that FPSC would NOT crash and burn but let you know you have reached the cap and therefore it cannot compile the game. This is when you need to either decrease the the texture size lighting or the quality of the lighting. This is why the defaults are low. However, you may also need to delete some of the static lights or reduce the size of the map. Now, 64 bit machines allow up to 4GB of virtual memory. However, FPSC does not work with 64 bit machines. So, there is a patch that you can use on FPSC-GAME.EXE to get that extra 2GB.

As I said earlier I have 8GB of RAM but this does not help at all. 16 GB will not help 4GB will not help. The software has to be compatible with 64 bit hardware, however, if you have a 32 bit machine you will always have this same issue even if the software will work on both 32 bit and 64 bit.

So, how many people have actually read all this? :LOL:

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 08:24
Quote: "This has always been confusing to people."


Yeah it does. But I am aware of the difference.

Quote: "When FPSC is compiling your game, it stores data (such as light mapping data, textures and etc. into virtual memory. The program itself is using your installed RAM. 32 bit only has 2GB of these memory addresses and it will crash if the information that needs to be stored goes beyond this. The cap was put into place so that FPSC would NOT crash and burn but let you know you have reached the cap and therefore it cannot compile the game."


FPSC doesn't crash when building the game. It's when the game is already built that the problem occur. The game doesn't crash, it just stops loading a level at a certain point (Usually happens after my 6th level. No idea what is the issue with that.

Quote: "So, how many people have actually read all this? :LOL:"


I did. Lolz

Intel Core i5 3570, Nvidia Gefocre GTX 560 OC 1024MB, 16GB RAM, P8H77-M Pro, Windows 7 Home Premium x64
maho76
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 10:08
multicore-support is the number1 musthave, along with 64bit-usability for ram. there is no way to get around this. if you can handle this in the reloaded, then i am fine with it.

TheK
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 12:02
Hey there,

I don't know. 64-bit support would be nice, but it shouldn't be the only way to distribute a game. All the Windows XP users (and those who have 32-bit versions of the more current OS) are left out.

I don't think that we should just have more memory to waste on our level. Because that's meaning the levels will get even bigger, the building times will get even higher, everything will be pushed even further and that's in the end a problem for us - the developers.
FPS Creator is a very user-unfriendly game engine when it comes to time consumption. To see your level like it will be in the end would take to build the whole level, then ingame go to the last scene that you are working on and checking if it is all OK, then go back into the MapEditor, change something, then build again.

For me this is a real no-go. You waste a whole lot of time building the level again and again. It would be better to just see the outcome directly inside the editor and make the engine to stream all the level assets. And there you have it. When you use proper streaming, you won't need to have a 64-bit program, because everything will fit into these 2GB of memory just fine.
Take a look at Crysis 1 or Crysis Warhead, or Crysis 2. These are all 32-bit programs (yet CryEngine does support 64-bit systems) and if you ever used CryEngine, then take a look at the memory consumption. Even in the most complex scenes you get a maximum of 1.4GB memory usage. And there CryEngine 3 was rendering about 3 million polys, was doing tesselation over the whole scene, was doing the sound, the AI, the whatever. Think about it.

If TGC would get the level as a final output directly inside the editor, would build in asset streaming and dynamic shadows, we would have a lot less problems with memory and time usage, because then we could jump right into our level to see how it looks from the players perspective. The lightmapper could do the lightmapping while we work on some other stuff in the map.
With the asset streaming we would also get really tiny loading times, because only a few of the assets would need to be precached, the rest would be loaded later anyway.

And in the end it would allow us for even more complex and bigger scenes. Together with multicore support, this engine could get somewhere near a good standard.

Greetings,
Jan

Skype name: thek491
science boy
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 14:06 Edited at: 16th Oct 2012 15:16
1. X 11
2. ingame sliders
3. new shaders
4. multithreading
5. instancing
6. bigger area

end of

no 11, no heaven

i refuse to go backwards and remain x9. its about time we moved forward, windows 7 is cheap, if you remain x9 go live in a cave!just kidding but surely everyone is advancing with w7 or w8, most old machines which were xp are surely outdated, and everyone wants a new engine, then why not treat yourself to a new o.s.

its cheap enough and can help you all move on a bit.

it is 2012 going on to 13! and you wanna keep up with the latest games then buy latest o.s and get better pc. most likely if you are on xp your machine is over 4 years old?

so w7 x11 complient would work well
no good runny! no money!

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
xplosys
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Posted: 16th Oct 2012 15:16
Quote: "Rather than demand a total re-write, boil it down to the specific features you are most passionate about"


My concern is that simply adding features to the existing core will only increase the existing performance issues. Without a serious update (latest DX, etc) and reworking of the core, I'm afraid I couldn't support this. Still, I'll wait to see the entire proposal before making my decision.

Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

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