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Geek Culture / Kickstarted video game project Haunts gets mothballed

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Nickydude
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Posted: 19th Oct 2012 16:48 Edited at: 19th Oct 2012 16:48
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Quote: "Development on a video game funded by the crowdsourced funding site Kickstarter has stopped as all its programmers have quit."


Something to think about when donating to a kickstart project.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20003916

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 19th Oct 2012 17:09
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shame, but can't help feel we'll be hearing a lot more of these stories as time goes on.


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Quik
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Posted: 19th Oct 2012 17:19
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Thats why you only fund those that by the looks of it - can make it, do they have a trailer? some sort of gameplay to show? do they have a prototype?

something, that indicates that they know what theyre doing - never fund someone just asking for money for something, without anything to show.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Oct 2012 20:12
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Poor Choices and Management decisions lead to this sort of thing... poor foresight... We are all plagued by this...

But it is human nature to learn and move on [and often forget lol]

Shame... it would have been another interesting thing to see, but the choice to use this 'Go' language [never heard of it before personally... maybe skimmed past it once] and that there were two non-flexible workers... is such a shame and one of them did not want to work on it any longer... shows that the product was not as intended... 40k+ budget... what on earth was he doing wrong; I really want to know...

Good of him to offer refunds out of his own pocket... but rightly so...

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Van B
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Posted: 20th Oct 2012 15:12
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They used Go, and can't get any Go programmers because Go is a joke of a language... seems that even people who know the language don't want to use it!

Poetic justice would be for that guy to start again, make some decent money, and stick it right to the spineless coders who obviously see peoples faith and money as consumables.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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the_winch
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 00:16 Edited at: 21st Oct 2012 00:19
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Spending $42,500 before turning to kickstarter to raise and additional $28,739. Now none of the existing developers want to work on it. Reading between the lines that's a project that has straight up run out of money.

If you don't have any money who cares what language it's written in? Using something other than Go isn't suddenly going to make people want to work for free to finish someone else's game.

The other thing is if you work out the numbers assuming no expenses except salaries the two programmers earned ~$35,000 each for a years work. Not exactly a great salary for a programmer, especially not one capable of getting a job at Google.

If it was written in another language that probably would mean paying the going rate and then the game would be even further from complete. You still run out of money just with even more work left to do.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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Nickydude
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 01:25
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Quote: "In his blogpost, Mr Dakan apologised for how Haunts has turned out and pledged to refund any backer who wanted their money back out of his own pocket."


It was the above quote that had me slightly concerned as I understood that money was automatically refunded if it didn't go ahead. Here he's saying he'll refund it out of his own pocket if they want their money back.

Does that mean a kickstart project can be started, then dropped and tough luck with your money?

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
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Ortu
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 01:44 Edited at: 21st Oct 2012 01:51
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Quote: "Does that mean a kickstart project can be started, then dropped and tough luck with your money?"


Yes, nothing is charged unless the goal is met, once met, the money is gone. The project may choose to refund but are not entirely obligated to do so. It can get fuzzy when you start getting into what constitutes a 'good faith effort' to complete.

Check out the Accountability for full details:

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#Acco

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Thraxas
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 03:30
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I always thought that this was an inherent risk with any Kickstarter project you choose to back. Just because the funding goal is met doesn't guarantee a finished project. I think that some people are under the impression that any fully funded project will get finished.

So far I've backed two projects. Both met the funding and took my money. For one of them I already have the finished product and the other is so far behind the original schedule that I believe it will eventually meet the same fate as Haunts and never be completed. If that does happen then I won't expect a refund as I took that risk into account when I chose to fund the project.

Quote: "Before the pair left, said Mr Dakan, they all but finished the game but it would need extensive bug testing and refinement before backers could get at it."


If this is the case why not release the buggy product to the backers? Why not release it along with the source code? There must be someone out in the big wide world who has the skills and time to refine the product.

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 03:51 Edited at: 21st Oct 2012 03:53
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If I fund something on Kickstarter, I see it as a donation - for something I would like to see complete and receive a copy of (if applicable), but not something I'm expecting some contractual obligation from.
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Quik
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 04:37
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Airslide: Kickstarter is.. different, because we're not talking 1$ donations at a time, we're talking about one big sum of money - i hardly see that as the same of Donation, or well it is - but more serious than your run of the mill donation.

If I wanted a donation pool, i would go with a regular "donate here" button, if i needed a lot of money - i would go to kickstarter, because of the fact that its... "safer"



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Thraxas
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 05:57
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Yes, to a point, but you still need to only give what you are willing/can afford to lose. Even though something is initially funded through Kickstarter there are no guarantees of a finished product. There is no inherent safety because you gave money through kickstarter.

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 06:03
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Can someone find any information regarding the GO language?

I am in fear of doing so myself because I anticipate coming across this video...



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Dar13
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 06:28
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Quote: "Can someone find any information regarding the GO language?"

http://golang.org/

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MrValentine
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 20:16
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Cheers Dar13

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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 21:02 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2012 02:35
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Quote: "Airslide: Kickstarter is.. different, because we're not talking 1$ donations at a time, we're talking about one big sum of money - i hardly see that as the same of Donation, or well it is - but more serious than your run of the mill donation."


Everyone sees it differently I'm sure, but I really do see it as a donation, not a purchase. It's a little help for someone's dream to come true, and if it fails to take off, I wouldn't hang the dreamer or even demand my money back.
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Ortu
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Posted: 21st Oct 2012 21:51 Edited at: 21st Oct 2012 21:51
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It's the same as with any investment, wether its a kick starter project, the stock market, a start up business, buying a house or property, or a simple loan to a friend, there is always a measure of risk that you will not see a return on your investment, so never put up more than you are willing to flat out lose and you never have to worry.

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nonZero
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Posted: 24th Oct 2012 09:05 Edited at: 24th Oct 2012 09:07
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Personally I agree with Airslide. Kickstarter is a donations program with benefits. I'd rather see a few decent things come of kickstarter than nothing at all. The many failures are the price we pay for the few success (although I dunno how many failed kickstarter projects that met target are out there but I'd guess not that many).

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Thraxas
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 09:19
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To quote myself:
Quote: "Why not release it along with the source code?"



http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre/posts/334371

calm your breasts and stop picking on him.
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Quik
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Posted: 25th Oct 2012 09:47
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Finally managed to check it out - really hoping they manage to pull it off, now with the whole open source thing



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xgen
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 18:31
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Kickstarter wont give money to them unless goal is meet no money if they cancel so those that pledged shud have goting their money back
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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 18:52 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 18:53
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I think the thing is that they did get funded and the met their goal. That money won't be refunded because there's probably not enough left to refund everyone!

This is the risk publishers make when they fund game projects. Some of them will fail and to recoup that cost they fund more than one game. This risk is passed onto the customers when it's a kickstarter, which isn't entirely a bad thing, as long as people don't give up with the idea altogether a lot of cool things will be made!

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
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Dar13
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 18:53
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Quote: " Kickstarter wont give money to them unless goal is meet no money if they cancel so those that pledged shud have goting their money back "

They already have the money, the Kickstarter was successfully funded. After the company or individuals have the money, there's no refunds from Kickstarter.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 23:17 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 23:18
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A valuable lesson.

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Quik
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 00:17 Edited at: 11th Jan 2013 00:40
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Quote: "They already have the money, the Kickstarter was successfully funded. After the company or individuals have the money, there's no refunds from Kickstarter."


not entirely true, following is quoted from their FAQ:

Quote: "Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill."


so yes, no refunds from kickstarter - but it is entirely possible to sue the project creators if they do not refund. So to speak

edit: so, if you create a kickstarter you are legally bound to refund people if you are unable to complete your rewards that you list - and usually, those rewards include the finished product.



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Thraxas
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 02:05
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Quote: "so, if you create a kickstarter you are legally bound to refund people if you are unable to complete your rewards that you list - and usually, those rewards include the finished product.
"


"We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill."

I think this is more to cover people who take people's money knowing they won't be able to complete the project as opposed to when things actually go bad. Let's be honest it's only going to be a certain type of person who wants a refund when things genuinely go wrong.

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rolfy
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 03:54 Edited at: 11th Jan 2013 04:02
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Quote: "I think this is more to cover people who take people's money knowing they won't be able to complete the project as opposed to when things actually go bad. Let's be honest it's only going to be a certain type of person who wants a refund when things genuinely go wrong."

This is true and I suspect that most of those that receive funding actually complete the project, the successful fund raiser will make sure there are plenty of updates and blogging when trying to raise the cash through Kickstarter. This gives backers a sense of knowing they will be kept in the loop and more likely to back it as they can see commitment.

If I were a team trying to raise cash this way I would be sure we all had, and kept, a high profile on the Kicktarter fund raiser, less likely to walk away from it.
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Quik
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 11:20
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Quote: "I think this is more to cover people who take people's money knowing they won't be able to complete the project as opposed to when things actually go bad. Let's be honest it's only going to be a certain type of person who wants a refund when things genuinely go wrong."


like they said, they hope - doesnt mean we cant demand a refund - just putting it out there =P



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xplosys
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 14:34
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Quote: "doesnt mean we cant demand a refund"


I think the bottom line here is that you take a chance when you fund something/somebody. Even if there is an obligation on the part of the funded to pay you back, even if for some reason you sue and win, if they don't have the money... you don't get it back. As with any investment, you take a chance, and as with any investment, you should never invest more than you can afford to loose.

Brian.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 15:13 Edited at: 11th Jan 2013 15:13
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Most any company that signs up and goes bankrupt would not be able to be successfully sued unless it was fraud due to the way liability is setup in businesses. Anybody who signs up should definitely consider setting up a business entity first unless they know they can deliver. Nothin' like losing your house cuz you failed at a project (who hasn't failed sometime or another?)

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