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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Creating Unique Ingame Interfaces

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thenerd
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Posted: 15th Nov 2012 03:32 Edited at: 15th Nov 2012 03:33
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Hey guys, so I've been recently interested in exploring what I can do to improve the UI of my games. In developing my games, I want to create ingame interfaces that are more creative and interesting than the standard "paste on screen" type of user interface that is very common especially in independent homebrew games. I think a good user interface is an essential part of any game engine. When you play a game, you can instantly get a feel for the level of polish simply by the interface. A good or bad UI can also contribute to the amount of fun gameplay is for a user. A good interface doesn't get in the way, provides all the features a user needs, and looks pretty.



To clear up confusion, I'm going to explain my understanding of a "UI". I'm referring to a user-interface as any element of the game, 2d or 3d, that can be interacted with directly to control gameplay. Most elements of a user-interface, such as the menu or heads-up-display, are mostly 2d images. However, I think it's worth trying to break away from that stereotype For the sake of the player, some elements need to be clearly visible even in action, such as ammo or health. I believe showing floating numbers is the worst solution. The best interfaces are those that blend in with the game world, and are feasible. For example, the above screenshot, from a Halo game, has the ammo displayed on the gun. And it looks great!

Some of my favorite ever UIs have been in games like Doom III, where aspects of the game world can physically be used. Doom, for example, has an excellent system for computers and consoles. You can walk up to a computer, your crosshair turns into a mouse cursor, and you can interact with the devices ingame. It was a highly polished system and IMO very intuitive. Now, for my version:



I've had this prototype sitting on my hard drive for a while, and just now I've uploaded it to Youtube for this forum post. All the interface on the laptop is rendered to an image using Image Kit, and then applied to the screen on the laptop model. The cursor, images, and video are all a test, but it's very easy to see how that could be designed as an engaging interface ingame. Imagine the idea of a player character crouching in the center of a battlefield and physically opening their laptop to send orders or use commands Personally, I love "3d" user interfaces. However, that's a matter of opinion. I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts.. hopefully this will generate some good discussion! My questions are: What is your favorite style of UI, and what are your opinions on how to design a user interface so that it stands apart from others?

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GregA
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Posted: 15th Nov 2012 10:40
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I dunno, I think the very best UI paradigms (ugh I hate that word) are the ones that don't present as a user interface.

Back to halo... There is no visible health bar in Halo, instead you get the visual effect of getting shot up, and your armor starting to fail.

There is no Ammo text, you see it right there on the gun image.

The whole first person (and even the third person) perspective presents the game in such a way that it is natural and obvious (somewhat) on how the game works.

Look at a game series X3(I love the game, but the UI is ugh, horrible) It is hard to do anything, you literally have to learn everything to make your space ship fly, and it gets harder when you start to have a fleet of fighters and trade ships. Nothing is obvious. It took me a good solid day to make my first successful(reasonably profitable) trade. I am willing to put up with it because I like the game concept. They could improve the game massively, if they broke immersion, and just gave us a nice solid interface to do all the nuanced things that you do in that game series.

In conclusion, either give us a video game like Halo, where the interface is brain dead easy and obvious and we can pick up and play. Or in the case of X3 style computer games, don't try and be clever with the UI (as they did and failed) just go ahead and give us a script or macro interface to do the nuanced things.

Finally, if your game requires a complex UI, and scripts and macros won't cut it (a game like Star Craft or Sins of Solar Empire) blatantly copy a working UI. Do this for two reasons, first you won't have to make all the mistakes of designing your own UI paradigm from scratch. Second, we the users already know how to use it.

Also, indy games don't deserve to be gamified. Don't gamify your game unless your are a big giant game studio and you are making a game that will last days or weeks(Think Fallout or Skyrim). Well if you wanted to make an indy game about how gamifying indy games is a silly endeavor, Ok I would be into that, but that might be to meta and only fans of meta would get it.

But yeah, use lots of meta in your games, we like that.
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 15th Nov 2012 10:57
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I like that laptop idea!

I agree with GregA, avoid increasing the learning curve.

Fun = Quality - LearningCurve.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 15th Nov 2012 20:26
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I agree, I prefer 3D menus, and also agree that certain aspects should not be blasted to the screen and besides, 2D takes a huge performance penalty, just look at FFVII, the re-release runs slow with the effects shader turned on, on older machines [that are using say an 8mb on-board display chip], specially the menus... [I can prove this if needed] {Super glad they included the classic graphics option - otherwise I would not be able to play it fast on the pc at work, erm my shop erm no I do not play 7 hours of FFVII everyday... while at work, that would be erm ridiculous but I do lol} ]

This got me thinking, about various methods to show game world elements, health, weapon ammo, etc... but it all takes time!

Unlike usually asking for links, is this the correct image kit link? [the one you used?]

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thenerd
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Posted: 15th Nov 2012 22:58 Edited at: 15th Nov 2012 22:59
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@MrValentine yes, that's the one. I'm using Imagekit v2, the latest version. The prototype code is actually extremely simple. I use Image Kit to create a render image, and then use the Matrix1 command "DRAW TO IMAGE" to redirect 2d drawing operations to the texture, which can then be drawn on by any command.



Overall, good thoughts Image Kit is something I've always been excited about, since the first release. It's more useful than you might think at first glance. I remember reading a thread where people were trying to calculate how to convert a 3d intersection point into a 2d uv coordinate and then a 2d texture coordinate, which would allow true 3d interaction with 2d UIs. I'm going to have to search for that code because it's definitely useful.

That said, one of the reasons I started this thread is to get feedback on things. I've been working on a style for OpenFPS for a long time, and I think I have something down that I like pretty well. I might be contradicting myself, it is far from realistic. So I want some help with this. What can I do to make this menu interface look the best it possibly can? Tear it apart. Criticize every pixel, that's what I want. I wish I could show more than a few screenshots, but there really isn't much more to show For a while I've been trying to do something that adds "depth" to the interface, but in my opinion this is the best version I have. But it still feels like something is missing. Maybe because it's not very realistic. I feel like a UI needs to be grounded in reality... I was talking about the "floating numbers syndrome" and I feel like I have it in this menu. What do you guys think?





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MrValentine
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Posted: 15th Nov 2012 23:22
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How about cubes or boxes with transparent images containing words in them while rotating or wobbling? add to that a light emitting effect... [Glow]

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thenerd
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 00:04 Edited at: 16th Nov 2012 00:04
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Hmm... See the thing is, I want to keep the same visual style that the menu already has. That's using these resources:





I'm thinking maybe have the menu rendered onto a laptop screen which is viewed in 3d. Overall, I really don't know. I'm split because I like the feel of the existing menu, but it seems unrealistic. I feel like this thread is straying from the topic of dbpro though I do have some ideas for the laptop concept. OpenFPS is going to be a strongly squad-based game, and the commander of a squad will have access to commands allowing him to direct the rest of his team, probably six or twelve people depending on the gamemode. The laptop will serve as tool for the commander to plan and direct actions. It's going to be a physical item, where the commander player has to find a spot to sit and open the computer and issue commands. In order to issue commands, I'm thinking about coding a small version of an operating system that will run on the laptop display texture. I'll post code for this, so people can help. Maybe you can create apps to run on the laptop. I want it to feel like a real operating computer.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 00:49 Edited at: 16th Nov 2012 00:50
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This sprung into mind...



I fear this may not have worked correctly but anyway here is a link, and jump to 2:00 minutes

EDIT

Timed embeds do not work so linked video as normal...

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thenerd
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 15:47
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Yes, that does look really nice. What I've decided is I'm going to let the main menu stay how it is, simply because it looks good in my opinion. I've also just added some little polish. For example, on the character selection screen in the menu, I've added a 3d display of a character on the side that you can rotate if you right click. I'm proud of this, it's something you see a lot in professional games!



It's really simple, too. To make a camera generating alpha to the background, I use this method:



... and then you can use paste image with the transparency flag to paste it to the screen. It's surprisingly easy

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MrValentine
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 15:56
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Very nice!

I hope to delve into interfaces myself soon too... I will be using my 3D approach...

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thenerd
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 16:57
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Just for kicks, I've combined the laptop interface with the 2d menu interface to see how it works It looks pretty nice in my opinion.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 17:58
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OH WOW, so I take it you like 3D menus now XD

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thenerd
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 21:56
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Well, I was just experimenting. I'm thinking the ui will stay 2d for the menu, but ingame it'll be 3d on the laptop. I think simplicity and usability is essential for the menu because it's the first thing you see, but then having the same theme on the laptop will add some realism.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Nov 2012 00:44
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How about bill boarding some 2D menus?

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Mr909
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 02:15
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Ooh, I have some input:

Some of the funnest interface I've seen are "hub" locations, like in Fable III or the Lego series. It makes much more sense in a military-based game than it does in Fable. Just have a military bunker with some high-tech displays that show the game's menu, have the player character walk around. Make it interactive! Player changeups can be visits to part of the bunker. Customizations could be some biotech vat. If distance is problematic, just have them access the same menu you've got now, but add something to do outside of the game's menu. Or, if the idea of walking around doesn't suit you, just have a camera that pans around to different sections of the bunker. Quite a few DVD menus have done something similar, making every menu look like a "location", and it adds a bit to the immersion.

Just a couple ideas. Due to increase in time spent "walking around menus", hub locations aren't always a good thing, but it could be more than ideal for what you're doing, if you're interested and want to toy with it.
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