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FPSC Classic Product Chat / I've heard something terrible

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mnemonic
19
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Joined: 14th Jan 2007
Location: Sweden
Posted: 1st Dec 2012 15:28
I read it here somewhere, probably written by someone who don't know what he's talking about or does'nt like FPSC.

He wrote that FPSC reloaded would be written on DirectX9. This cannot be true? I believe even some features even cannot be implemented with DX9,,,,

anyway! The latest DXSDK will be used under the creation, right?

www.memblockgames.com
electric chihuahua
21
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Posted: 1st Dec 2012 16:59
Hi

If you read through the original forum and kickstarter info pages you would see it indeed will be in DX9. They have their reasons and solutions. Primarily, not starting from scratch on new code was part of the goal for reloaded. It will be interesting to see how all this develops.
DarkJames
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Posted: 1st Dec 2012 17:03
It is using Directx9. Skyrim can run on Directx9, COD Blacks Ops can run on it, Crysis 2 can run on it. So I'm not sure if you are trolling here.

mnemonic
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Posted: 1st Dec 2012 17:14
Yes, I know that many games runs DirectX9, perhaps the most these days. But many brand new games run DX10/11.

My concern here is more technical. (DX9 games can run, and look very good)

I fear that DX9 will become outdated in a couple of years. And,,, how do these day computers and cards that are fully DirectX 10/11 compatible run DX9 games and applications. Perhaps they are run in some sort of a virtul machine? And how is it with hardware acceleration? If a person purchases a new computer from the store, does it come with the DX9 runtime installed?

www.memblockgames.com
Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 1st Dec 2012 22:33
Quote: "Yes, I know that many games runs DirectX9, perhaps the most these days. But many brand new games run DX10/11.

My concern here is more technical. (DX9 games can run, and look very good)

I fear that DX9 will become outdated in a couple of years. And,,, how do these day computers and cards that are fully DirectX 10/11 compatible run DX9 games and applications. Perhaps they are run in some sort of a virtul machine? And how is it with hardware acceleration? If a person purchases a new computer from the store, does it come with the DX9 runtime installed?"

ALL new games AFAIK, can use the DX9 runtime if DX10/11 isn't installed. DX9 is simply too large of a demographic of gamers on PC to ignore.

DX9 is outdated, but support is as simple as creating an installer that downloads and installs all prerequisites(i.e. the DX9 runtime) prior to running it(similar to Steam). Virtual machines don't have 3D capability for DX9 yet, so no it won't be run in a VM. A brand new machine has no DirectX runtime installed at all AFAIK, but that might not be true depending on the type of machine(computer targeted at gaming audience probably comes preloaded with DX9/10/11 runtimes, etc).

FPSCR will be coded on top of the existing codebase(though Lee has said that he's going to go through and clean up a lot of junky old code, I think that's a bad idea), so it will still use DBP.

BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 1st Dec 2012 22:39 Edited at: 1st Dec 2012 22:40
Quote: "Virtual machines don't have 3D capability for DX9 yet, so no it won't be run in a VM."


I beg to differ. We run 3D capability with DX9 in our VM just fine. When we develop in FPSC, we use the VM system quite a bit for testing, etc. The editor works great, the builds work great. We only receive a +/- 5 FPS between a host and virtual system. And FPSC is not the only engine we use or test in both host/VM systems.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
xCept
23
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Posted: 1st Dec 2012 23:10
I always wondered if they couldn't somehow incorporate the work of the now defunct FPSC X with DirectX 10 support with the Reloaded version, to provide an option of building for DX9 or DX10. That was a big undertaking to create FPSC X and I think it's sad that it was discontinued as the graphics and features are very impressive even now when I run the Tech Demo.
bond1
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 08:25 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2012 08:30
Directx 9 will be here for a very, very, very long time. It is too well established and mature to just go away. All major 3D software packages still use dx9.

Directx 10 is dead, a developer would be crazy to develop a game based SOLELY on dx10.

Directx11 is the future for sure, but it is still dwarfed by dx9. That will probably change in 5-7 years after the new consoles become established.

I've been playing Hitman:Absolution on my Nvidia GTX680, and the game looks nearly identical between dx9 and dx11. In fact, for most people it runs smoother on dx9 while looking nearly the same.

SPECS: Intel Corei7 3770k, Nvidia GTX680, 16GB RAM, Win7 Pro
Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 08:42 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2012 08:45
Also, when I was checking Windows 8 this was a part of the requirement for installing Windows 8:

Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver

Doesn't mention even DirectX 11 at this time. As Bond1 said, " It is too well established and mature to just go away." DirectX 9 is still very much a solid core component. TGC learned the hard way that sometimes Microsoft hits a sour note when TGC jumped on board with DirectX 10. So it definitely would not be wise to jump so soon to DirectX 11. As the knight said, "He chose wisely."

kamac
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 09:11
Mafia II runs with DirectX 9 on my computer aswell. It is looking great, so I would be rather happy that TGC doesn't have to start from scratch, and older graphic cards will be supported aswell.



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mnemonic
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 10:08
I agree with you totally on all of what you say about DX9. I have no experience with DX9 API, but some with the API of DX10/11. But I also know that they changed the entire API with DX10 and onward. Why? If they want engine developers to let their games run on the latest technology then why making it harder for them? Instead of just updating the source code, they have to rewrite the entire engine.

What did Microsoft think of?

www.memblockgames.com
bond1
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 10:34 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2012 10:35
It's because the current generation of consoles are still using dx9. Rather than have two different rendering paths, most games are still heavily dx9.

That will probably change once the next generation of consoles become established, but that doesn't mean dx9 will just go away. Most cutting edge dx11 games require new or beta drivers from Nvidia/ATI, since it's still a new technology that is evolving.

Dx9 is fully fleshed out, the feature set is done, it's not changing. New games still look pretty dang amazing on dx9, and it just works.

SPECS: Intel Corei7 3770k, Nvidia GTX680, 16GB RAM, Win7 Pro
uzi idiot
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 11:15
As bond1 says, Dx9 is perfectly fine and will be staying around for the foreseeable future; rewriting the entire system to be excessively in Dx11 would be a bad idea, it would restrict the audience and would not be at all necessary.

If something compiles on the first try. Something is terribly wrong.
The Nerevar
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 14:39
Sorry to go off the topic, but DarkJames bolded "skyrim" and "troll", and that might have solved the mystery of why people always say troll, they are referencing the trolls from the Elder Scrolls series! Oh those three eyed ape things.... Such a pain.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
mnemonic
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2012 22:46
After reading your answers I've had a better understanding of all these versions that were a little confusing, and the major change between version 9 and 10 really worried me! But now i guess I can stop worry about that

www.memblockgames.com
The Nerevar
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2012 13:27
Cool, but you can never stop worrying about them trolls, especially the frost ones! keep those fire spells handy!

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
gendestroier
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2012 14:34
d'you remember that damn full frost troll near the high hrothgar's temple ? what a nice surprise , climb all the way up that freaking mountain just to find an almost unbeatable trollface, he throws you outta the mountain and you have to climb ALL the damn thing all over again

well, back to topic:

even if we were near the half of a transitionary state between the x9 and the x11, where most games actually USE the dx11, tgc wouldn't code any support for the dx11, it might be too much, in adition even there dx9 would still be a favorite to most people, it'll probably be still light and visually atractive, too much energy would be spend in an investment with low return, it (again, yeah) would be a even worst idea than keep coding in dbp, completely abandoning c++ as the code's language. ( i still think it was a bad idea even given the circunstances)

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