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Geek Culture / What am I doing using DarkBASIC?

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Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 24th Dec 2012 23:26
Today, as I was programming my space game, I decided to enable mipmap generation for the texture of the planet Earth. When I did so, it gave my space ship the texture of the planet Earth.

Planets are not space ships, and programming languages do not do what you don't tell them to do. I am done with this language.

What am I even doing programming? I am not prepared to handle unexpected BS like this. Life is unpredictable enough. I was talking about this sort of thing with a friend yesterday, and he said to just use a different system or not program at all. He was right. I am going with the latter option. I have deluded myself long enough, and it's time to change.

DarkBASIC is an easy-to-use language that was originally designed for children. You might even go so far as to say that games themselves are for children. Far back before the dawn of man, lion cubs played games. The adult lions hunted and did other useful things, and would only play games with their cubs and during intercourse. I am not a child any more, and I need to leave this chapter of my life behind.

I know I'll probably regret posting this, but my mental health will fare better as a result of not programming PC games any more. If there is anybody who agrees with me, don't hesitate to reply. It would be nice to know that others have as much sense as I have. Thank you.
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 24th Dec 2012 23:29
Programming is fun, there's no way you can stop! If you're satisfied with sticking to 2D you can do processingjs/html5 (see: http://www.khanacademy.org/cs/moving-bouncing-ball/867896406

(You have to stick to 2D on that website. In general you don't but I don't know that it's the best supported [though support will increase over time], plus I think you'd have to worry about shaders)

rolfy
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Posted: 25th Dec 2012 00:00
Adult lions play with the cubs cos they need time out from the hard grind of hunting, either that or sleep since they dont have computers to play with, them paws would be a hindrance.
Humans have many ways to unwind when not working be it sports, reading, watching movies or simply playing games. Games are not just for kids.
Whatever floats your boat, puzzles can be hair pulling and still good fun, personally I get frustrated with things but its always a kick when you solve something, thats why we humans do it, its when the hair pulling becomes more prevalent than the successes we start to think of throwing in the towel, its down to personality as to when or if we do so.
I wouldn't give up if you love doing it just take a break and come back with a fresh eye on things.
The Zoq2
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Posted: 25th Dec 2012 00:23
I to have felt like this, but the feeling of fixing a bug that you have been looking for for a few days/weeks surpasses the frustration of not finding the bug. Also, when I have these kinds of problems where I think that the programming language isn't doing what it should I usualy post here only to find out that the "bug" is actually created by me and not by the language. But if you feel that programming isn't your thing. You probably shouldnt do it.
Fallout
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Posted: 25th Dec 2012 00:44
Programming's not for everyone. There's way more to life than sitting behind a computer. If it's not for you, take up a new challenge. How about building RC planes?! Random idea for you.

xplosys
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Posted: 25th Dec 2012 00:50
Quote: "How about building RC planes?! Random idea for you."


Ohhh! Time to program a random idea generator!

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 25th Dec 2012 02:11 Edited at: 25th Dec 2012 02:12
Quote: "Programming is fun, there's no way you can stop!"

I didn't say I would stop, I'm just saying that programming PC games is not my cup of tea. I should move on to something else, like mobile apps or more useful software. Web games are appealing to me, although HTML5 is really really overkill for some dumb bouncing ball.

Quote: "I to have felt like this, but the feeling of fixing a bug that you have been looking for for a few days/weeks surpasses the frustration of not finding the bug...
... But if you feel that programming isn't your thing. You probably shouldnt do it. "

Don't get me wrong, I plan to finish up my existing projects, but after that, I hope to never make a game for Windows again.

Quote: "Programming's not for everyone. There's way more to life than sitting behind a computer. If it's not for you, take up a new challenge. How about building RC planes?!"

*dramatic emotional music* I don't need that sentimentality. I'm far from retirement!

Quote: "Ohhh! Time to program a random idea generator!"

What? I think there's already something like that that somebody made in PHP.
nonZero
15
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Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 25th Dec 2012 19:02
Cheer up! Cheer up!

Perhaps you're in the same position I'm in: I have so many books I wanna write, games/apps/OSes I wanna make, comics I wanna write, places I wanna see... But realistically I know my life's too short. Realistically, I may never fulfill any of my dreams.
I once had this dumb notion I could recruit people to help me with my dreams by producing a couple of things that I thought would appeal to the masses.
Reality hit hard and one day I'm gonna do a thread about this aimed at folk in a slump. For now let's just say I realised that I had to accept what I couldn't do for now and focus on what I could. So I'm no longer "trying" hard. I'm instead gonna move at my own pace doing what I want to do. And what I wanna do is be creative. So I work on what I can do, in the things I enjoy doing. I try to help others reach their dreams where I can along the way. Even a simple piece of advice or an explanation of a concept/example. You should try it too. You learn a lot through the teaching experience.

I guess what I'm saying in my usual verbose manner is stop trying to hard. Relax and just do. If this is truly your passion, you'll do something eventually. If it's not your passion, you'll lose interest and find something you want to do more. Either way, you win if you just allow yourself to.

ionstream
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Posted: 26th Dec 2012 07:33
It sounds like neither DarkBasic nor programming, nor this community, are for you. My recommendation is to abandon all three immediately.

TheComet
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Posted: 26th Dec 2012 13:39
Well to be fair, you are using DarkBASIC Classic, a language already outdated by 4 generations. You can't expect to create anything large or professional with that.

TheComet

tha_rami
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Posted: 13th Jan 2013 09:37
And we used Game Maker 7, which is outdated by 4 generations, to create Super Crate Box - which became a worldwide hit. The tools aren't what makes a game large or professional.

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.
mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 11:52
Quote: "and programming languages do not do what you don't tell them to do."


p.l. do STRICTLY what you are telling to.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
TheComet
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 13:09 Edited at: 14th Jan 2013 13:10
@ tha_rami - I guess you make a point. Super Crate Box is awesome.

Quote: "and programming languages do not do what you don't tell them to do."


Have you ever programmed in LotusScript? *shudders* That language is TRWTF.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
Quote: ""
- Randomness 128
Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 21:38
Quote: "Well to be fair, you are using DarkBASIC Classic, a language already outdated by 4 generations. You can't expect to create anything large or professional with that."

Oi! There's still at least three other people who use DBC on here so watch your mouth!

Crap, so we just lost 1/5 of our community in this thread.

Shh... you're pretty.
mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 21:55
DBC is good, it just can't use shaders, that's all.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
old_School
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 23:02 Edited at: 14th Jan 2013 23:02
The thing that separates the Sr. Developer from Jr. Developer is simply dedication. Becoming a developer is committing to a life of learning new technology and developing software around the new technology as it emerges. If your framework can not compete or provide solutions for the modern world then you need to learn how to develop in a new framework. Dark Basic is a good framework for simple solutions. But if you want to advance and excel as a developer you need to learn different frameworks such as .Net or XNA for example. If you can’t comment to learning more complex frameworks like .Net or XNA then you need to consider something else as a career or interest in the entertainment industry. A developer is just one person in a massive web of careers in the entertainment industry. It takes a whole team to develop a piece of software. Perhaps you might be happier designing software or promoting software.
Indicium
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 23:31
I reckon .NET is a step down from darkbasic.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
old_School
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Posted: 14th Jan 2013 23:56
Well not going to sound rude but let me know how many jobs their are for Dark Basic vs. .Net I reckon your wrong lol
Van B
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 00:40
That's like comparing apples to oranges.

We are talking about game development here, DB is a lot more relevant than .net in that regard.

For me, DBC suffers way too much from lack of alpha transparency support, without that it can't really compete with anything, DBPro on the other hand would be a much better platform for the project Fluffy is working on. Then there's AppGameKit as well which really makes DBC obsolete for starting a new project on. I mean, the projects that we might consider DBC for, can be running on tablets and multiple different platforms.

Hell, anythings better than VB for games, I'd use Game Maker, DBC, PureBasic, or anything rather than VB for games. Finding DBC after getting sick of VB6 was like... well, a bit like Alexander Flemming finding that mouldy sandwich.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
old_School
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 01:02
Well I was using .Net and XNA as examples but truth be told even .Net would be better than dark basic for games. You forget about c# which is the industry leader for game development right along with c++ using the .net and other frameworks. Not trying to debate .Net framework because everyone knows it’s an excellent framework for just about anything. My point is though that Dark Basic is Basic hence the name. If you want to excel as a developer you need to go beyond basic frameworks and consider more complex frameworks. Best bang for your buck right now is Java based or IOS. When I say IOS i mean Objective C not AGK. But that’s my opinion as a developer. Van B is obviously partial to TGC products which is ok because he works for TGC and he should be boosting their prodcuts as an employee.

I also stated that there is more to creating software then programming. A lot more and it’s very beneficial if you have a interest in those areas to pursue those interest instead of programming. Programming is for a very select few. Not trying to start a debate/fight but I see a lot of people here who only focus on programming. Artist are people too and so are writers, promoters etc. They all need/deserve credit too.
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 01:14
Wow, this thread has been quite active recently. If these posts were directed towards one of my WIP's rather than here, I wouldn't even have to start a kickstarter or anything.

Anyhow, when I say I don't like DarkBASIC Classic I'm talking about most of TGC's products and PC game programming in general. I think it's an awful waste of time to build my own game engine practically from the ground up whenever I get a new idea. On top of that, I think it's pretty juvenile to say I'm going to make video games when I don't have a job, I'm a terrible programmer, and I'm using technology that is not only outdated but also aimed at young children. I feel like some half-retarded basement dweller like Chris-Chan. Just a sec, I'm going out to Safeway to buy some pizza bites.
Dar13
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 01:29
Quote: "Van B is obviously partial to TGC products which is ok because he works for TGC and he should be boosting their prodcuts as an employee. "

Van B is not employed by TGC in any capacity if IIRC.

I've very rarely seen a large game being created in pure C# .NET without using a framework or development kit like Unity(which is programmed mainly in C++ anyways).

Quote: "Anyhow, when I say I don't like DarkBASIC Classic I'm talking about most of TGC's products and PC game programming in general. I think it's an awful waste of time to build my own game engine practically from the ground up whenever I get a new idea."

Then use someone else's engine. Crytek is now usable for noncommercial games, as is Unity and Unreal. Torque is even available for use now. If you want even more done for you, go mod Half-Life 2 or some other Source Engine game, the majority of the work is already done for you.

old_School
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 01:40 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 01:49
I guess don't feed the trolls at this point lol

Anyway, ahh yeah c# and .Net are very common in development for entertainment software and office software. I really think you should consider expanding beyond these forums if you strongly believe that comment. Unity is a very common 3D engine but there are more 2D games than 3D and 2D is arguably more in demand right now thanks to IOS. A basic principle you need to understand though is 3D takes an astronomically amount of time to produce a piece of software vs. 2D which can be just as good entertainment wise as a 3D game and take less than half the time. So you can clearly see an advantage to 2D over 3D off the bat. Plus cell phone based games are very popular right now and don’t need 3D graphics to be great. A good software designer creates good games and good mechanical ideas & concepts.

Edit:
Btw Unity is based on C# XNA and Java and its for indie developers, your thinking of UDK. UDK uses C++ but its also for large companies and not your average developer
Dar13
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 03:06
Quote: "Btw Unity is based on C# XNA and Java and its for indie developers, your thinking of UDK. UDK uses C++ but its also for large companies and not your average developer "

I believe you are misinformed. Unity uses Mono (open-source .NET) for its scripting engine, but not for the core engine. The core engine is programmed in C++ (source).

Quote: "Anyway, ahh yeah c# and .Net are very common in development for entertainment software and office software. I really think you should consider expanding beyond these forums if you strongly believe that comment."

I know that C# .NET is fairly popular with office software, that's not news. And the implication that I'm closeted up within this forum is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

Quote: "I guess don't feed the trolls at this point lol "

Agreed, I'm done here.

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 03:24 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 03:24
Quote: "Then use someone else's engine. Crytek is now usable for noncommercial games, as is Unity and Unreal. Torque is even available for use now. If you want even more done for you, go mod Half-Life 2 or some other Source Engine game, the majority of the work is already done for you."


Yeah, but I can't sell the games, can I? See, I need something easy, free, and fast that can make me money. Of course, since you all like to suffer you probably wouldn't know of any such thing. Irrlicht looks pretty close, but it's not like you can just script it with Lua or something. I'm not complaining that it's too hard to make games, I'm just saying that anyone who is serious about anything should probably avoid DarkBASIC.
Dar13
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 04:08
Quote: "Yeah, but I can't sell the games, can I? See, I need something easy, free, and fast that can make me money. Of course, since you all like to suffer you probably wouldn't know of any such thing. Irrlicht looks pretty close, but it's not like you can just script it with Lua or something."

Well, I've got my Ogre3D/Bullet Physics/RecastNav/FMOD engine to pretty much be scriptable from Lua. You can check it out at the bottomest of the two links in my signature. My license is fairly relaxed as well. The only thing that's restrictive on the licensing front is FMOD, and that can be replaced with OpenAL or irrKlang.

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 04:30 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 04:33
@Dar13-

That's a lot of libraries. What do you mean it's "pretty much" scriptable from Lua? FMOD has a horrible license and I will never use it. Do I have to call those libraries directly or are they abstracted through some kind of simplified framework?

EDIT: Upon further examination, it appears to be a Visual Studio project. Would it be possible to have binaries for Mac/Linux/Win32/Win64?
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 05:01
Quote: "Btw Unity is based on C# XNA and Java and its for indie developers, your thinking of UDK. UDK uses C++ but its also for large companies and not your average developer"


Just to be clear, UDK is probably written in C++ (I'm not sure), but game development for it is done in UnrealScript.

You're signature has been erased by a mod
Van B
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 09:33
If I worked for TGC, I'd probably be sacked by now . I work with TGC on some projects, my own and theirs - but my appreciation for DBPro comes from completing over a dozen projects with it.

The bottom line is results, and if the language you use gives results, then stick with it. The more you know DBPro, the easier it is to migrate to other platforms, not just TGC products. The more experience you have, the easier it is to do things your own way. I'm not saying that's exclusive to DBPro, I'm just going by my own experience.

There's a lot of rigmarole sometimes when dealing with other peoples engines, and especially making iOS apps. AppGameKit and DBPro give us a leg-up, let us concentrate on developing and help avoid the typical procrastination that comes with solo game development these days. Solo developers are getting rare these days, indi development is a market that is becomming tougher and tougher for solo developers. I'd recommend languages like AppGameKit for solo developers every time, because I am grounded in reality. What's the point in starting a Unity or UDK project that your not sure you can finish, surely it's better to get actual results.

Case in point, The_Rami - Super Crate Box is a great game, but it didn't need MS libraries, C#, rediculous license fees or dozens of people - it needed Game Maker and it's a bigger success than most indi developers could ever hope for. It's results that matter, flimsy respect from other developers doesn't put food on the table, a saleable product and low development cost might though.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 10:11 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 10:12
I'd say C# is good when you have money and a team of pro's. You know, like any serious company. To make something like Braid or Journey DBP is enough.

DBP is perfect indie platform, it has neat price, license, features and COMMUNITY.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
Dar13
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 14:09
Quote: "That's a lot of libraries. What do you mean it's "pretty much" scriptable from Lua? FMOD has a horrible license and I will never use it. Do I have to call those libraries directly or are they abstracted through some kind of simplified framework?

EDIT: Upon further examination, it appears to be a Visual Studio project. Would it be possible to have binaries for Mac/Linux/Win32/Win64? "

The game is currently not in a playable state, so no. You can however download the source and compile if you've downloaded the correct libraries.

All calls to the libraries from within Lua are abstracted away from the Lua scripts, there is currently no way to directly access those libraries from within Lua. To see the functions callable by Lua scripts, look at the LuaManager.h file at lines 131-169. And what I mean by pretty much scriptable is that the scripting system is fairly removed from the lower level mechanics in the appstates. If you really want me to, I can explain how to utilize my engine to do almost all of the work from XML files and Lua scripts instead of C++. Of course, my engine is still very much a work-in-progress.

As to the amount of libraries, there's the graphics engine(OGRE), the physics engine(Bullet), the navigation mesh and pathfinding library(RecastNav), and the sound library(FMOD). I also use CEGUI for the menus and OIS for input.

Indicium
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 16:44
Quote: " Dark Basic is Basic hence the name."


Wrong. Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

Quote: ".Net would be better than dark basic for games"


Come off it, DBP has practically full control over every aspect.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Libervurto
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 19:14
Quote: "Wrong. Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code"

Yes and the fact that spells BASIC was entirely coincidental.

Shh... you're pretty.
TheComet
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 19:14
@ Dar13 - Kind of off-topic, but you should check out premake.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 19:29 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 19:32
Code, code, code! As far as languages are concerned, DarkBASIC is the same as any other. You guys seem to think Visual Studio is another viable development solution. It's not! It's made by Microsoft and is way too big and complicated and only designed for Windows. You could use GCC or something, but no! It's like life isn't hard enough for you guys.

Quote: "The game is currently not in a playable state, so no. You can however download the source and compile if you've downloaded the correct libraries.

All calls to the libraries from within Lua are abstracted away from the Lua scripts, there is currently no way to directly access those libraries from within Lua. To see the functions callable by Lua scripts, look at the LuaManager.h file at lines 131-169. And what I mean by pretty much scriptable is that the scripting system is fairly removed from the lower level mechanics in the appstates. If you really want me to, I can explain how to utilize my engine to do almost all of the work from XML files and Lua scripts instead of C++. Of course, my engine is still very much a work-in-progress."


Work-in-progress doesn't always have to mean unfinished or unusable. If your game isn't currently playable at all then how are people going to want to use your engine? You don't have to explain to me how it works. I'd just like to see two things happen:

1) FMOD goes bye-bye
2) There are binaries for Windows and at least one other platform

That's the great thing about C or C++, isn't it? You can swap out the libraries and put it on any platform you want. Once it is confirmed to work with a couple different platforms and it doesn't use FMOD anymore, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested to learn your Lua/XML system.

I'm not trying to sound mean. In fact, I'm thrilled that someone here is developing their own game engine. I have a couple of them in the works, but they're both made in DarkBASIC so they're pretty useless.
TheComet
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 20:10 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 20:15
You don't seem to understand what Dar13 means with "game engine". Yes, it's an engine, but it's not one of those drag-and-drop scripting things. Obtaining a binary of it would do nothing.

The "engine" in this context isn't supposed to be compiled to a binary, it's a usable piece of software that can be tied in with your C++ code.

Quote: "Code, code, code! As far as languages are concerned, DarkBASIC is the same as any other. You guys seem to think Visual Studio is another viable development solution. It's not! It's made by Microsoft and is way too big and complicated and only designed for Windows. You could use GCC or something, but no! It's like life isn't hard enough for you guys."


Again, you've got a lot of things mixed up here.

Visual Studio != VCC

Visual Studio is an IDE. You can use it in conjunction with GCC no problem.

And DarkBASIC is certainly NOT the same as any other language. DarkBASIC can't do jack squat when it comes down to things like data bases, online networking, shader programs, vertex manipulation, bone animation, or anything considered "standard" in todays games. And everything it can do is either slow, dysfunctional, or a combination of both.

I'm not saying C++ is the gold standard. Pick anything and you're better off than with DarkBASIC Classic (well, LotusScript maybe not so much). Java, C#, C, .NET, HTML5, hell even fim++ is doing better right now.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
Quote: ""
- Randomness 128
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 20:55
Quote: "You don't seem to understand what Dar13 means with "game engine". Yes, it's an engine, but it's not one of those drag-and-drop scripting things. Obtaining a binary of it would do nothing.

The "engine" in this context isn't supposed to be compiled to a binary, it's a usable piece of software that can be tied in with your C++ code."


That's too hard!

Quote: "Again, you've got a lot of things mixed up here.

Visual Studio != VCC

Visual Studio is an IDE. You can use it in conjunction with GCC no problem."


OK. I thought I saw "vcproj" files in the zip. People on Linux can't use those.

Quote: "And DarkBASIC is certainly NOT the same as any other language. DarkBASIC can't do jack squat when it comes down to things like data bases, online networking, shader programs, vertex manipulation, bone animation, or anything considered "standard" in todays games. And everything it can do is either slow, dysfunctional, or a combination of both."


I've been able to do half of that stuff in DarkBASIC, but what do I know?

Quote: "I'm not saying C++ is the gold standard. Pick anything and you're better off than with DarkBASIC Classic (well, LotusScript maybe not so much). Java, C#, C, .NET, HTML5, hell even fim++ is doing better right now."


I pick whatever the easiest, best, cheapest, most convenient hack is. If there were a ready-made multi-genre GAME ENGINE (not library or codebase or complicated blah blah blah) scriptable from Lua or JavaScript or XML or whatever, I'd use it. But there isn't, and anything that comes close complicates things with some complicated visual editor and makes it too hard. Like, why hasn't someone come out with 3Dscript? It's like DarkBASIC but there are a ton of built-in subroutines that do everything for you and it's basically just an executable and some media that can run on Mac / Linux / Win32 / Win64 / FreeBSD / NetBSD / Solaris / DOS / Game&Watch / BeOS / BogOS / Wii / PS3 / XBox / Android / iOS / WebOS / Java / Flash / TRS-80 / X-Wing / R2D2 and every other platform. It's a tragedy that video games are the newest yet least adaptable form of entertainment.
old_School
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 21:13 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 21:14
Edit:
NM this thread is just a giant joke at this point.
TheComet
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 21:16 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 21:17
@ Fluffy

Nooo!

Do you really think you're the first person to want something like that? Of course not! The best programmers out there have always wanted something like that, and what we have now is some of the best tools since 30 years!

Having something that can do everything and be simple at the same time? Those are two contradictory things. There's a crossover point somewhere. Games are freaking complicated, there is no simplicity in complex game creation, sorry.

If all you want is a drag-and-drop thing, then that's fine! Go and use FPSC, RPG Maker, Unity, UDK, Source, or something other like that. You can make games in ready made engines, there's nothing that will stop you. But these engines trade their flexibility for simplicity so people like you can just get on with making the game.

Your idea of a complete solution for creating every conceivable game product possible is fantasy. It's not going to happen. You cannot have a generic engine for everything and at the same time make it "simple" to use.

If you want more control over your game, there is no avoiding of the underlying engine mechanics: code.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
Quote: ""
- Randomness 128
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 22:22 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 22:40
@TheComet-

I think there can be a compromise of some sort. Drag-and-drop is a bit of a pain. I personally prefer scripts. The actual level layout could be managed by a level editor that actually edits the script code underneath it all. The game would be ported to all platforms that it would be compatible with, or all platforms that the core engine is compilable to. That would mean Windows, Linux, and Mac OSX. The evolution of the World Wide Web leaves us with lots and lots of visual HTML editors, web browsers, and cool stuff that makes designing interactive and dynamic documents very easy. Why can't making a game be that easy?

Also, what need be a game engine other than a runtime and an editor? They could easily pack such a thing into a 15 MB distribution for each platform.

EDIT: Check this out. I'm not really sure how to use it, but it seems like it does everything. I've been able to modify some of the Lua code, but it turns out it has to be compiled for some reason in order to work. It would be nice to use a similar project that doesn't make you compile the Lua and doesn't need a big visual editor. Kind of reminds me of Blender. Neat.
Dar13
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 22:47
Quote: "You guys seem to think Visual Studio is another viable development solution. It's not! It's made by Microsoft and is way too big and complicated and only designed for Windows. You could use GCC or something, but no! It's like life isn't hard enough for you guys."

Visual Studio has the single best Intellisense for C++ that I've ever used and the compiler isn't quite as good as GCC or Clang, but I don't particularly care. It has all the features I could/would want and then some. My version has a static code analysis tool, one of the best debuggers I've ever used(allows editing of variable values during program execution), and is reasonably easy to use once you get over the learning curve. I enjoy using Visual Studio, it's one of Microsoft's better products IMO.

Quote: "Work-in-progress doesn't always have to mean unfinished or unusable. If your game isn't currently playable at all then how are people going to want to use your engine? You don't have to explain to me how it works. I'd just like to see two things happen:

1) FMOD goes bye-bye
2) There are binaries for Windows and at least one other platform

That's the great thing about C or C++, isn't it? You can swap out the libraries and put it on any platform you want. Once it is confirmed to work with a couple different platforms and it doesn't use FMOD anymore, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested to learn your Lua/XML system."

Since I'm focusing on Windows, I'm not going to get rid of FMOD. You're more than welcome to download a copy of my code and make the edits necessary to convert it to irrKlang or some other audio library, but I have more important things to work on. And by the way, I said my game "engine", but it's a fairly focused engine. Granted, there are components that can be used by any project, notably the GraphicsManager, the InputManager, and the SoundManager(maybe the GUIManager), as TheComet is actually using a derivative of my GraphicsManager in his current project IIRC. But it's not a toolkit that you can just drop stuff into. There would need to be code to glue the different managers together and do the specific application logic. I use a finite state machine for my levels, so it's fairly simple to do different logic between levels or add a global behavior.

Here's my main loop in one of my app-states:


For right now, Work-In-Progress means it's unplayable/unusable by the majority of the public. Maybe a programmer could use my modules in their projects, but there are few that would be willing to do that. My project is even nominally cross-platform when compiled because I try to use cross-platform libraries and coding styles(avoiding Win32 API calls, etc).

Quote: "Kind of off-topic, but you should check out premake."

Thank you for the reference, I've looked at it before but I simply don't have time to figure it out for my current project. I'll check it out for my next project for sure.

Quote: "
It's like DarkBASIC but there are a ton of built-in subroutines that do everything for you and it's basically just an executable and some media that can run on Mac / Linux / Win32 / Win64 / FreeBSD / NetBSD / Solaris / DOS / Game&Watch / BeOS / BogOS / Wii / PS3 / XBox / Android / iOS / WebOS / Java / Flash / TRS-80 / X-Wing / R2D2 and every other platform. It's a tragedy that video games are the newest yet least adaptable form of entertainment."

The amount of work required to make that would be astronomical(I'm talking tens of thousands of man-hours). I count 10 different OS APIs that you would have to use, 5 different graphics technologies to have to account for and 3 different programming languages.

old_School
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 22:53
Quote: "Visual Studio has the single best Intellisense for C++ that I've ever used and the compiler isn't quite as good as GCC or Clang, but I don't particularly care"


Visual Studio is the best IDE out there I think but thats just me.
TheComet
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Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 23:11
Quote: "EDIT: Check this out. I'm not really sure how to use it, but it seems like it does everything. I've been able to modify some of the Lua code, but it turns out it has to be compiled for some reason in order to work. It would be nice to use a similar project that doesn't make you compile the Lua and doesn't need a big visual editor. Kind of reminds me of Blender. Neat. "


See, that's what you need. I checked it out and what it can do is pretty neat.

However, lets say you have larger intentions to, oh I don't know, write an online multi-player RTS/RPG hybrid with ponies? There's no way on earth that you can make a game like that just with a visual editor and scripting. In the case of maratis, you would have to dig into the source code and start extending it with your own code.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
Quote: ""
- Randomness 128
Dar13
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 23:22
Quote: "I've been able to modify some of the Lua code, but it turns out it has to be compiled for some reason in order to work. It would be nice to use a similar project that doesn't make you compile the Lua and doesn't need a big visual editor."

Sounds pretty cool, but all Lua eventually gets compiled. The only determination you have over that is whether you do it beforehand(which is what they're having you do) or when it's loaded within the software(and if it fails compilation, god help you).

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 15th Jan 2013 23:43 Edited at: 15th Jan 2013 23:46
Quote: "However, lets say you have larger intentions to, oh I don't know, write an online multi-player RTS/RPG hybrid with ponies? There's no way on earth that you can make a game like that just with a visual editor and scripting. In the case of maratis, you would have to dig into the source code and start extending it with your own code."


Actually, I think Maratis has built-in networking support, and the game dynamics you talk about sound pretty generic. I assume Maratis is like a simplified Blender Game Engine, which is like a weird version of DarkBASIC.

Quote: "Sounds pretty cool, but all Lua eventually gets compiled. The only determination you have over that is whether you do it beforehand(which is what they're having you do) or when it's loaded within the software(and if it fails compilation, god help you)."


Hmm. Minetest interprets the Lua at runtime (maybe with a JiT compiler). That's what I want.

Anyhow, why do you guys get so excited about digging under the hood and driving deeper into the code? My whole thing is about being efficient with time. If I can churn out a game in two hours VS two weeks, I'm happy. Ingame scripting and a simplified intuitive system would be good.
TheComet
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Posted: 15th Jan 2013 23:54
Quote: "Anyhow, why do you guys get so excited about digging under the hood and driving deeper into the code?"


It's part of my personality to question how everything works. You may call it a curse, but I genuinely enjoy it.

Also consider this: If no one were motivated to dig deep, where would an engine like that come from in the first place? Where would all of these beautiful tools we have these days come from?

It thrills me to find new ways to optimise code, fix bugs, and do cool, deep stuff in engines. For me, it was never about getting the job done. It was about learning how to program.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
Quote: ""
- Randomness 128
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 16th Jan 2013 00:14 Edited at: 16th Jan 2013 00:15
@TheComet-

I understand from the hypothetical standpoint of going back in time and teaching these modern technologies to ancient people in a way that they could implement from the ground up, or perhaps being stranded on a deserted island and constructing a computer out of coconuts and shells. Still, you have to consider the notion that our society is heading in the direction of the Q's from Star Trek. Their technology reached a point where it became a part of themselves, almost as if it were magic. Another example, remember the dome ride at Epcot? There's this part where there are these kids making a video game just by sitting in front of a TV and talking about it. It reminds me of this:



Face it, people of the future won't want to work with lower level code. Already, C is considered low level even though it depends on special runtime libraries. Everybody uses SDL or some similar library when programming a game in C++. It isn't that far of a leap to imagine an interpreter that combines SDL and OpenGL to form a sort of abstracted language like DarkBASIC but works on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
Dar13
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Posted: 16th Jan 2013 01:33
Quote: "Anyhow, why do you guys get so excited about digging under the hood and driving deeper into the code? My whole thing is about being efficient with time. If I can churn out a game in two hours VS two weeks, I'm happy. Ingame scripting and a simplified intuitive system would be good."

All truly innovative games will eventually require some sort of editing of the very core of whatever engine you use as that engine simply won't be able to do what you want it to do. And anyways, I'm very similar to TheComet in that I never went into this project just wanting to create a game and get done with it, I started it in order to become a good programmer that managed to create a game that people liked. And this project has been a major learning experience for me since it's spanned almost 4 years and 4 different rewrites.

Quote: "Face it, people of the future won't want to work with lower level code. "

Well, they'll work with lower-level code until either the hardware becomes available that will enable higher-level languages to compete performance-wise with the lower-level code, or some miracle of software engineering makes higher-level languages equivalent in performance and cross compatibility. I'd love to work entirely in Python, but it's just too slow for me to bother with it. So until then I'll stick with C/C++/C#/Java.

old_School
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Posted: 16th Jan 2013 02:07
Lmao if you believe this video I have to laugh at you.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 16th Jan 2013 16:07
Me see no video, me laugh at you.

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