What am I doing using DarkBASIC?

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Airslide

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Posted: 16th Jan 2013 18:16

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Quote: "Me see no video, me laugh at you."

Video is three posts above yours

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TheComet

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Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.

Posted: 16th Jan 2013 22:12 Edited at: 16th Jan 2013 22:13

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Quote: "Face it, people of the future won't want to work with lower level code."

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/

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- Randomness 128

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Green Gandalf

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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.

Posted: 16th Jan 2013 23:10

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Quote: "Video is three posts above yours "

In that case "this video" should be "that video".

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greenlig

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 11:01

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This is an interesting thread. Fluffy, you don't seem to want to put in the effort to make something. That's fine, it's your choice. But, don't confuse your lack of motivation or dedication with poor tools. Games take time and effort, with some of the most important time spent well away from the PC. You want to churn out games in two days vs. two weeks? Join a gamejam. Global Game Jam is coming up in a few weeks, why not join that? It's 48hrs, a lot of fun, and you will have the chance to put your money where your mouth is. Hopefully, you'll surprise yourself. There are plenty of good, easy ways to make games - Game Maker, Unity, DBPRO, UDK, etc. In the wash up, it's the end product that matters - the game. How you get there is neither here nor there, but YOU need to get there. You're the one who needs to do work. Suck it up and put in some hard yards.

Greenlig

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29 games

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 14:26

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To give Fluffy a bit of credit, I think he's put some effort into his projects. He's got a playable demo for Dark Survivours 2 on the WIP board that would indicate he's willing to do a certain amount of work. Whether he has the tancity to finish a project is another matter entirely but if dropping a project was a crime most of us would be in jail.

Whether DBC or even DBPro are still relevant is a matter of opinion but I think it's easier to be motivated when using newer technology. A the moment I'm wondering if I ever finish my current DBP project whether windows PC will even exist. This is obviously a rather extreme thought but it all eats away at my general level of motivation.

I'd suggest that Fluffy Rabbit has a look at Freedom Engine as this will allow him to deploy games to various platforms and it would probably not be much of a leap from using DBC. However, it suffers from the same issues as DBC and DBPro in that, because it's a programming language, you have to do a lot of the work yourself. There are no drag and drop options. But it might address the comment he made earlier:

Quote: "Web games are appealing to me, although HTML5 is really really overkill for some dumb bouncing ball."

one of these days I'll come up with a better signature

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old_School

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 14:47 Edited at: 17th Jan 2013 14:50

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I agree a switch from DB is needed but I think Fluffy needs to figure out the best language he feels comfortable learning first and then start writing using notepad++ or a IDE or go grab a 3D engine. If I was fluffy, I would suggest web based or IOS. The market is one of 3 things right now; Ruby on Rails, IOS and Web development. Pick one and you will find success. Web would be the easier one and cheapest. However, Ruby is picking up a lot of steam. IOS of course is IOS, it does not change much. If you feel really bold, Silverlight is an option. Microsoft phone is not very popular right now but it’s still a good time to get in that market in case it does take off. I honestly recommend he switch to 2D as well. 2D is more popular and much faster building times.

Any time you build a piece of software it’s a risk "will it sell". 2D has always been a good starting point for people and its low risk. I’m a huge fan of 2D but 3D is good as well. The problem I see with 3D is the expense and effort. It’s very expensive to buy models, hire an artist and spend hundreds of hours developing the software. It’s also a lot more effort to build software and your basically nobody in the software world. Its true Minecraft became successful but that’s like infomercials "results may vary". Which means it’s not typical. So practice makes perfect anyway, so why not build a bunch of games and have more chances at success. That is just my thoughts & perspective.

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Van B

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 16:55

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I wouldn't advise going straight to iOS development, it can be a minefield - even if you stick with trusty old C++ you still have to deal with Apple stuff and Objective-C delegates. It can be frustrating, obtuse, and time consuming.

I'd re-iterate that AppGameKit is a great option, multi-platform, iOS support without the aches and pains, Android, etc etc etc. Windows phone will never be as popular as iOS and Android, so a language that supports them and PC, Mac etc etc makes sense. Also - there are so many little Android devices, tablets, consoles, handhelds in development that the market is continually growing. So you have the stability of the iOS market, the convenience of the PC market and the bright future of the Android market - it's a pretty comfortable position for an indi developer I think. AppGameKit doesn't really have much in common with DB in terms of language, don't let your disdain for DB stop you from looking at one of the best (if not the best) options.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.

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old_School

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 18:50 Edited at: 17th Jan 2013 18:55

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I think you should build real job experience and career skills. So AppGameKit to me would be a bit of a waste plus I'm sure it has limits. Objective C is just like any other language, it requires time and effort to learn. I would say expect about 3 to 6 months learning curve wise in your free time before you will begin to feel 100% confident in your self as a developer and see a lot of progress in your writing. Its really just math and practicing how to convert words into math. I think Van B makes some good arguments for AppGameKit but to be honest Droid is not a good market to attempt to sell products. Most Droid users pirate their apps, so its not very profitable. So the best over all currently is IOS and IOS developers make a large income currently. They are also in huge demand even if you just have basic IOS developing skills. I honestly can say I've never seen a company seeking an AppGameKit developer but that does not mean their is not a demand. I know this is a hobby but it can be come a great career as well if you take it to the next level. Getting paid to do something you enjoy is the best job you can have in my opinion.

Edit:
Did a quick job search for you on Career Builder: http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?APath=2.31.0.0.0&job_did=JHS7M36SFBKDXS78BYH&IPath=ILKV0A

I'm a .Net Developer my self and I make a little less than the position above. I make around 70 and I learned mostly just by building games and online tutorials.

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Matty H

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 19:06

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Quote: " I honestly can say I've never seen a company seeking an AppGameKit developer but that does not mean their is not a demand. I know this is a hobby but it can be come a great career as well if you take it to the next level. Getting paid to do something you enjoy is the best job you can have in my opinion."

I would recommend AGK.

People on these boards have got jobs at game development companies because they have a history of producing games, more so if the games are original and innovative.

To do the things I just mentioned it does not matter what language you use. Since Fluffy is currently struggling with programming I would say AppGameKit would be a good option for him(or her).

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old_School

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 20:26

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I think the number of true developers here is lower than you think. I would say over half of the people here are indeed just hobbest and don't have developer careers. I agree to a point as well that fluffy might find more successwith AppGameKit but maybe he/she should consider a different side of development. Some people are not left side brain, they are right side. Its like telling an artist to stop drawing and start programming. Sometimes it can't be done.

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Libervurto

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 21:01

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Quote: "I think the number of true developers here is lower than you think."

I know right! Barely anyone on here has a logo.

Shh... you're pretty.

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old_School

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 21:18 Edited at: 17th Jan 2013 21:22

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I don't think having a logo has anything to do with being a developer or working for a development company. A lot of people create entertainment companies but never legally create their business. There is a difference between a legal/real company and working out of your home office and never establishing your self as a real business owner. Real business owners pay taxes and a mountain of other things. Owning a real business is the first step and you establish your self as a serious developer; no longer a hobbyist.

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Wolf

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 21:28 Edited at: 17th Jan 2013 21:31

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Quote: "Its like telling an artist to stop drawing and start programming. Sometimes it can't be done. "

It would be like replacing a flower with a block of concrete.

Quote: " Life is unpredictable enough"

Beauty and perfection at once, isn't it?

But back to your initial post:

Don't wanna make games? Then don't. Its nothing constructive...its pure hobbyism. If you manage to dilude yourself into thinking that any software you write is somehow more important and mature than a fun game please let me know how you did it. Unless you develop something you either make a living from or help out a group of fellow humans achieving something constructive there is no real difference. Just go back to the roots maybe? When and why did you start coding rather than doing something else? Wouldn't you enjoy a hobby away from the screen... after all you could just leave computers behind completely, couldn't you? What moments and memories of your sparetime do you hold dear and cherish the most? The ones where you where meeting someone, out with a friend or loved one, painting something, relaxing among family, taking a walk, having a vacation, experiencing something raw and new or the times you where sitting behind your screen coding whatever space game you where coding or whatever app to add to an already overflowing market. Its your choice from now on.

Its also your choice wether or not to believe that this old_school guy makes "70" with what he's doing...even though this choice is a lot more obvious.

-Wolf

http://serygalacaffeine.tumblr.com/
https://twitter.com/AdrienAsselborn

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 21:38

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Quote: "I would say over half of the people here are indeed just hobbest..."

I'm guessing he was going for "hobbyists" but I can't help reading it as "hobbits"

On a more serious note, there is a wider world out there than software development. Yes, I'm a hobbit (sorry, couldn't resist it) games developer but I'm also a professional mechanical design engineer and find that the skills I've picked up playing around with DB help with my job, either directly or indirectly. Generally, being a good design engineer is fundamentally about being a good problem solver and this is a skill that can be honed by making games. It's all about taking complex problems and using method, creativity and knowledge to "make something".

Quote: "I think you should build real job experience and career skills. So AppGameKit to me would be a bit of a waste "

Think of all the skills you develop making a game and all of a sudden learning and using DB and AppGameKit starts looking a lot more relevant.

But maybe you're right, maybe Fluffy should try something other than DB. I'm currently learning Java (not very diligently, I'd admit) just to get an feel for programming outside of DB. I already have this feeling that I probably won't make anything remotely fun with Java, I'm not entirely sure why I picked Java to be honest, but sometimes it's interesting to have a wander around places you've never been before.

one of these days I'll come up with a better signature

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TheComet

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Posted: 17th Jan 2013 22:16

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Quote: "I think the number of true developers here is lower than you think. I would say over half of the people here are indeed just hobbest and don't have developer careers."

Sorry, but I have to question why that's even relevant?

There's a very fine line between "professional" programming and "hobbit" (sorry) programming. I've seen some of the most horrible so-called "professional" code ever, it's worse than what the newbies post here sometimes! So I ask, why does it even make a difference if a user here is professional or a hobbyist when both of them are capable of getting the job done?

Yes, in professional programming they are far more strict with coding standards, but that aside, I don't see the need to distinguish the two.

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/

Quote: "

"

- Randomness 128

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Dark Java Dude 64

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Posted: 18th Jan 2013 04:05

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IDK what you're doing using DarkBASIC, but I don't know what you're doing not using LightCOMPLEX!!

/useless post

I have no signature.

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Jeku

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Posted: 18th Jan 2013 04:16

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Well I'm not sure what old_School is on about, trashing DBP and AppGameKit at every turn. I made some prototypes in DBP for fun, and I talked about them during my interview at EA way back in 2005. Look at that, I actually got a software engineer position at EA. Yes I had some solid C++ and ActionScript skills at the time, but the interviewers were really jazzed that I had some playable demos of prototype games.

C# may or may not be the "industry standard" as you put it, but I don't think it's difficult to juggle more than one language at once. I'm quite familiar with C# myself at the moment, and I still enjoy using AppGameKit when I'm at home and wanting to work on some fun hobby games.

Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group

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rolfy

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Posted: 18th Jan 2013 04:46 Edited at: 18th Jan 2013 04:59

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I just wish people would stop going on and on about business and career paths.....I don't jump into 2d chat telling everyone not to use the sticky finger technique cos it wont impress employers or NEVER go down the chocolate box, pot boiler road cos it will crush your career quicker than a pair of nutcrackers in the hands of my wife.

I really don't want to be lectured I just wanna have fun. Like the Cyndi Lauper song, 'cept I'm not a girl.

I don't care if you use AppGameKit,DBP or KGB I just wanna know who's turn it is to supply the blueberry muffins.

I guess this makes me a hobbit.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.

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Kezzla

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Posted: 18th Jan 2013 05:39

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I would define a developer as someone who develops something.
I would define a serious developer as someone who takes development seriously.
I would define a business owner as someone who owns a business. -first sentence that does not contain the work developer in either the title or definition.

It's like saying I am not a musician because I don't make money from it.
Saying I'm not a serious musician because I don't own a business, when I have put many years hard and serious work into my craft and practice it daily and have a lot of pieces to show for it.

commerce is commerce

I am not saying that a business owner cannot be a developer (perfect example is TGC team) but to say that development hinges entirely on the back of owning a business? -I find this mindset puzzling and difficult to grasp.
nevermind, I say while looking at my furry toes.

more importantly,

@Rolfy -Your sig has me in hysterics! good one.

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing.

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Libervurto

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Posted: 18th Jan 2013 16:06 Edited at: 18th Jan 2013 16:07

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What do I have in my pocket?

Shh... you're pretty.

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TheComet

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Posted: 18th Jan 2013 16:19

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A magical piece of software that somehow wasn't created with low level code, but created by "front-end" programmers with joysticks, and yet offers a way to create any conceivable game in and out of existance by merely thinking about it, and is only 800 bytes in size?

TheComet

http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/

Quote: "

"

- Randomness 128

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