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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Some questions regarding AGK 1.8

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Juggernaut
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 19:58
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Hello,

1. Is it possible to create a game/application using AppGameKit on Windows 7 64 bit and have it available to run on Mac OS X ? I mean is it possible to create the MAC OS X ready to run stand-alone application on the Windows 7 PC itself. Will the MAC user need to download and install any other extra software ( run-time / framework / Virtual Machine etc. ) to play the game or run the application ?

2. What 3D animated model formats are supported in AppGameKit ( FBX / .X / COLLADA etc. ) ? Does AppGameKit support skeletal animation and bone access and bone manipulation at run-time ?

3. Does AppGameKit have AI commands built into it ( similar to Dark AI ) ?

4. Is there anything like Dark Shader in AppGameKit ? How do I write shaders for AppGameKit ?

5. Does AppGameKit have in-built particle system ?

6. Does AppGameKit have built-in support UV manipulation and sprite animation animation through in-built commands ?

7. What PHYSICS features are available in AppGameKit as compared to Dark Physics ?

8. Is AppGameKit faster than Dark Basic Pro ?

9. What are the limitations of AppGameKit 1.8 compared to Dark Basic pro ?

10. Any level editor available for AppGameKit 1.8 ?
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 20:42 Edited at: 4th Jan 2013 20:44
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1. No.
2. No animation at all, yet
3. No
4. No Dark Shader for AGK. I don't know, but someone has been posting some that they made in this forum.
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Don't know the features supported in Dark Physics, but there are lots of good physics capabilities.
8. Probably, I think someone has done some comparisons. But, unless you can build exactly the same app in both, it is hard to tell which will run faster.
9. It's been too long since I worked in Dark Basic Pro, so I cannot answer that.
10. No.

The biggest thing for AppGameKit over Dark Basic Pro is that it works for platforms other than just Windows (without modifying your code, I might add) and you can also program in C++ with AppGameKit to get the full power of classes and great standard libraries (strings, vectors, lists, etc.).

EDIT: Add to the answer for 1: But, if you have a Mac and do the right things with the AppGameKit libraries and templates, you can build a standalone Mac app that runs all by itself (without any other downloads). This applies as well for iOS and Android apps.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 20:56 Edited at: 4th Jan 2013 21:00
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Quote: "4. Is there anything like Dark Shader in AppGameKit ? How do I write shaders for AppGameKit ?"

You could use rendermonkey by ati and then rename the neaded uniforms.

But in plain text so is it extremely complicated to do a well working shaders editor that make shaders ready to run inside agk.

If you compare dark basic pro shaders.
Work on an direct x platform.

Agk shaders.
work on windows.
work on macintosh.
work on ipad and iphone.
work on blackberry.
work on android.

You see the problem?

This is the reason they have there agk shaders written for opengl es for desktops.
And you get poorer performance on ios and android with agks shaders then writing them completely by your own.
opengl es on ios and android use very specific commands to speed things up that dont work at all on the desktop version.

This is the short story!

Here is my old thread that the lady writes about
Its old as i have learned alot after this.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=201508&b=41

Android 2.3 , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz , Sony ericson arc 480x854 , 1 ghz
Android 4.0 , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , 1.2 ghz
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xCept
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 21:04 Edited at: 4th Jan 2013 21:05
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As AL said, AppGameKit supports standalone app deployment to Mac but you will need a Mac to compile the game as it can't be done through Windows thanks to Apple's restrictions.

AGK includes Box2D physics, there is no physics support for 3D yet.

Both DBPro and AppGameKit can be "faster" at different tasks than the other. AppGameKit generally does fantastic with 2D sprites whereas DBPro can struggle with higher sprite counts (however with some features of DBPro not available in AppGameKit, like Lock Pixels, many of those 2D bottlenecks can be overcome). DBPro is way ahead of AppGameKit in the 3D department, so if 3D is your thing right now DBPro is the way to go.

Ancient Lady is right about the best benefit of AGK--cross platform compatible and Tier 2 capable so you can develop in another language, OS and IDE.

AGK does come with Placement Editor utility for level design (http://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/utilities/1_placement_editor.htm) I have not used it personally. You'll find some other level editors have been created by the community in the Showcase section.
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 22:15
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Thank you Ancient Lady, Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS and xCept for answering to my questions.

For AppGameKit stand-alone application that will run on MAC I will need a MAC. What if I do not use C++ but use AppGameKit BASIC instead while developing the game / application on Windows 7 64 bit, will the application be able to run on MAC using the AppGameKit player ? If true, is it possible to bundle the AppGameKit player along with my game binary in such a way that the user will not have to install anything further for playing the game ?

Secondly does AppGameKit have inbuilt functions for creating in-game GUI or HUDS ?

To developers of AppGameKit I have the following questions -

Since AppGameKit now has 3D functionality in version 1.8
Is there any roadmap for AppGameKit where I can see the feature sets that is going to be implemented in near future ?

I am interested in 3D rendering features, PHYSICS and AI if any will be incorporated.
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 22:33
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You need a Mac to produce Mac apps regardless of whether you use Tier 1 (AGK Basic) or Tier 2 (C++). Apple requires by license that all Mac apps be built and packaged with Xcode on a Mac.

There is no Player for a Mac. They are only for tablet like devices (like iPhone and iPad, for example).

And Apple will absolutely not allow any AppGameKit Player in the App Store for any device.

And, even if there were a Player for Mac, it would need to be built and signed on your Mac before you could, theoretically, provide it with your byte code and media files.

When you build a standalone app in Windows with the AppGameKit IDE, it is basically copying and renaming an existing interpreter and compiling a byte code file from your code that the interpreter uses. There is no executable file created that is compatible with a Mac.

Creating an AppGameKit app for a Mac is similar and must be done on a Mac. It takes the byte code file you built with the AppGameKit IDE and your media (and other input files) and bundles it into one file with Mac specific AppGameKit libraries and code files compiled in Xcode.

When Xcode is used to build a Tier 1 Mac or iOS app from the AppGameKit interpreter (Player) base (renamed and edited for the target app), it bundles all the compiled code with your media and the byte code file built in the AppGameKit IDE.

There is no way not to get around owning a Mac (book or mini, whatever) if you want to produce anything for the Mac.

What do you mean by in-game GUI? There are functions for doing some buttons and for input fields.

As for HUDS, you program those yourself. That is the kind of thing that is very app specific. You can create all sorts of text and image objects to display whatever you want.

I don't know about the road map for future development. That would need to be provided by someone who actually works at TGC doing AppGameKit stuff. I am just a volunteer.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 4th Jan 2013 22:55
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@Ancient Lady: By in-game GUI I meant something that shows things like number of ammo available, amount of health available to the player or some click-able menu-items that we get to see when a game starts - like "play game", "save game", "change display options" etc.

So the bottom-line is on Windows 7 64 bit I can use AppGameKit BASIC to create games that run on Windows, iOS and Android with AppGameKit player without any further change in the code.

I wonder how much 3D functionalities along with PHYSICS and AI will be implemented to make AppGameKit a full blown multi-platform 3D game engine. So I wanted to see what lies ahead before going for AGK. If the developers kindly take time and list the features it will be very helpful for me to take decisions.
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 5th Jan 2013 04:59
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The Players are only for testing. They are NOT for final production since they require that the user be running the AppGameKit IDE on their Windows computer.

But the same code you use to create the Windows version is used (via the byte code file, assuming AppGameKit Basic) on the Mac, iOS and Android platforms. You just need to set up the proper environments for each one. And the Mac and iOS ones require that you have a Mac with Xcode.

Any in-game GUI is something you program yourself. There are lots of commands for displaying text.

At the moment, there are no 3D physics (only 2D physics) and no AI at all. Somewhere in the forum, they did put together a time line of features. They only started on the 3D stuff a few months ago.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 5th Jan 2013 12:38
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@Ancient Lady: Do the 3D functions enable the developer to load external 3D models ? If so, what file formats are supported ?

Can you please point me to the thread containing the timeline of features ?
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 5th Jan 2013 17:41
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There are discussions about the formats for the 3D models. But I haven't started working with that in AppGameKit, yet, and don't recall what is used.

And I don't remember which thread had the timeline, just that there had been one.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 6th Jan 2013 22:57 Edited at: 6th Jan 2013 22:59
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I think what is stated here - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=180492&b=41 is that if anybody is using AppGameKit BASIC i.e the Tier1, the generated bytecode is ready to run on MAC, Windows and other device OS like iOS.

So it is somewhat possible to develop games for MAC on Windows.
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 6th Jan 2013 23:50
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The byte code file is the compiled commands. But in all environments it needs an interpreter to execute it. And the interpreter needs to be built using the platform specific libraries and interface code.

You only have to code once in Windows (either Tier), but you need to set up the proper compile environment on each platform.

So, I repeat (I hope for the final time), in order to produce something for Mac, you must have a Mac. Apple insists that anything produced for a Mac is built and signed in Xcode. No ifs, ands or buts. This is in the Mac Developer License that you must have in order to put a Mac app in the Mac App Store. I looked in the iOS license and couldn't find the same language. So you might be able to find something else to produce it in. But it will still need to use the iOS specific libraries and interface code.

The interface code is the bits that let the interpreter 'talk' to the platform. And each platform has a specific file for this.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Juggernaut
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Posted: 7th Jan 2013 20:34
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@Ancient Lady: Thank you ancient lady for your clarification and patience.
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