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Geek Culture / Why "Ok" buttons in dialog boxes work best on the right

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 18:33
I am in the process of putting the final touches on my iOS app, and one thing that I wanted to be sure to cover was determining which side of a dialog box I should put the "Primary Action" button (this could be things like "Ok", "Delete", "Confirm", etc (whereas secondary actions would be things like "Cancel", "No Thanks" or "Decline").

I did some searching on the net and came across this article that answers it perfectly:

http://uxmovement.com/buttons/why-ok-buttons-in-dialog-boxes-work-best-on-the-right/

Essentially, they make a point of noting that most designers tend to think putting the Primary Action button on the left makes more sense because this will be the first button the user sees. They then point out that although this is the first button the user sees, they will always look at any other available buttons before making a decision. This causes the user to need to focus three times; first on the primary, then on the secondary to see what it says, then back to the primary to click it.

But by putting the Primary Action button on the right, the user must only focus twice; once on the secondary button, then once on the primary button to click it.

I had not thought of the dilemma this way before, but now that I've read that article it makes perfect sense, and I'm currently ensuring all of my alerts adhere to this design flow.


Anyways, just thought I'd post it here for others to take note of if they are ever wondering which is best (and, you really should be wondering this if you're developing a polished product).

- RUC'
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 18:55
... No.

"Cancel" on the left then "OK" on the right would irritate me because it's not what I'm used to. I kinda get the logic they're using but really, exactly how much time are you saving using this method?

And surely you know if you're gonna click OK or Cancel as soon as you've read the dialog?

RUCCUS
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 19:19
Meh, I'm used to Primary on the right, maybe it's a mobile thing.
ionstream
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 20:01
I am used to OK on the right and instinctively go there when a pop up shows up. It confuses me briefly when they are swapped.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 20:15
Isn't it always OK / Cancel in Windows? That's what I'm used to.
Blobby 101
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 20:16
OK/yes on the right makes more sense to me. That's basically the positive action that takes you forward through the process, whereas cancel/no is a negative one that takes you backwards.

RUCCUS
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 21:12
Yeah its usually OK/Cancel on Windows. The article mentions that although something may seem to be the norm on a specific operating system, it doesn't always make it right.

Obviously some people are going to disagree with it, but I think the article makes some fair judgements as to how the majority of users will react, and that's all you should care about anyways.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Feb 2013 22:48 Edited at: 8th Feb 2013 22:48
But then you're alienating your entire Asian market. Shame on you.

zeroSlave
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Posted: 9th Feb 2013 04:08 Edited at: 9th Feb 2013 04:16
Interesting read. I've never really thought about it and don't think I have a preference. I understand the 3 eyeshifts in comparison to 2, but I'm pretty sure my physical click reflexes (mouse/finger) happen right after the second look despite whether I move my eyes back to it or not. Once the information is evaluated by slow thinking, quick thinking occurs and my body reacts immediately. I dunno /ramble

I think the page it referenced in the second paragraph is a good read too. Here.

Quote: "assuming users need OK much more frequently than Cancel , it's better to place this option first so that keyboard-driven users who tab to the buttons can get to their preferred choice with one less keystroke."


Quote: "Windows puts OK first
Apple puts OK last"

Is this a hidden MAC vs PC debate... o_O

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Kezzla
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Posted: 9th Feb 2013 05:13
Interesting thought, I never really analyzed my button clicking thought pattern, I think that usually the buttons are so close to the text that I can already basically identify the buttons in peripheral vision and go straight there without much hassle at all.

However, the logic makes sense and will play a part in my future button placement.

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing.
Thraxas
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Posted: 10th Feb 2013 07:48
I have tidied the thread up and unlocked it. Let's try to have a civil discussion.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Feb 2013 11:22
This is a fascinating research! Amazing how the little details of the design of anything really can make such a huge difference.
Libervurto
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Posted: 10th Feb 2013 19:35 Edited at: 10th Feb 2013 19:39
Quote: "OK/yes on the right makes more sense to me. That's basically the positive action that takes you forward through the process, whereas cancel/no is a negative one that takes you backwards."

Exactly!

Quote: "But then you're alienating your entire Asian market. Shame on you."

Quote: "Location: --->"

Hypocrite!

If you were designing a gui for Asians then I'd agree that next/ok should be on the left but also the buttons should be on the left side of the dialogue too in that case. In other words, the primary option should always be on the edge of the dialogue.

In Windows you often see "<- Back", "Next ->", "Cancel", which doesn't make any logical sense.
"Cancel", "<- Back", "Next ->", works much better.

Look at this jumbled example:

The two positive options are in the middle!

^ That's what she said.
nonZero
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Posted: 10th Feb 2013 22:53
Seriously guys, it boils down to what the user is used to. Comfort takes precedence over research about eye-shifts or logic or any other new-cyber-age dribble. It may be more logical to use a mouse left-handed (Actually I frequently do when the carpel tunnel plays up) but people are generally used to the right hand (not saying it is, just an illustrative example).

So for most Windows users it's
Confirm:
[Y] [N] <--- Y first because it's asking you to confirm an action
It's what they're used to.

So use your target-platforms norms (iOS norms in your case) because most people don't wanna read all the buttons or even pay much attention to what they're doing, as stated earlier. People want to do without thinking. This is human nature: laziness. Mix things up and you'll annoy people.
Simplify, simplify, simplify.

There's my 2.5624 cents worth anyway.


Silence is golden, duct tape is silver
AgentSam
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Posted: 11th Feb 2013 15:41
I have always used the "OK buttons on the right" design by default, and the primary market of my applications has always been the so called "western countries".

Also, I have been aware of the right-to-left reading order of some languages, but have never designed a UI specifically for it. That would require some additional reasearch, besides the positioning of buttons. (For example, it might be counter-intuitive for submenus in a menu bar to open left-to-right, when the reading order is right-to-left.)

But, it really isn't that much additional work to add a few locale/UI options into your application (when the OS does not already provide such settings), to specify which way the USER prefers to see the buttons.

In this respect I do not agree with the "Simplify, simplify, simplify", philosophy as stated by nonZero. Instead, whenever possible, give the user the option to make the choice by themselves.

Cheers,
AgentSam
nonZero
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Posted: 11th Feb 2013 19:26
In principle, I agree with you AgentSame; the user should be able to customize thing but this should be done at OS-level rather than per-app (with regard to dialogues). This is because it is more hassle for the user (and developers) to have dialogue boxes customized per app. It also creates inconsistency because settings could then vary app to app and not all users - especially iOS's target market - would know how to customize things.

So to me the order is not relevant, merely the consistency. If the target was more than one platform, I may be inclined to say add the customize feature as different platforms have different orders but it is just iOS so it should conform to iOS standards.

One could say they should be ordered based on the % probability of being clicked but this wouldn't always work out either.

You sure you wan to delete?
YES NO

You sure you want to overwrite?
YES NO

You sure you want me to kill you?
NO YES

Perhaps we should be looking at the contents of the dialogue too.

All users get into a habit of "knowing" where confirm and cancel are. Once they're in the habit, it's best to leave it like that and build your app to accommodate it. I'm speaking from experience here because some of my biggest annoyances with MS products is the constant need to modify the appearance and placement of things. I rely heavily on the keyboard shortcuts and context menus as a result of the constant changes to the UI.

But each to their own. Maybe the best thing for you to do, RUCCUS, is just put up a poll on your site or Facebook or something. That would actually be the best as you'd get feedback from users rather than just developers.


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AgentSam
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Posted: 11th Feb 2013 21:40 Edited at: 11th Feb 2013 21:42
I will use this small post to emphasize to any future (and current) readers and commenters, that they should actually read the article linked in the OP, before commenting.

It really isn't a bad article, although somewhat small and limited in scope. Still, worth the read.

Cheers,
AgentSam
nonZero
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Posted: 11th Feb 2013 23:13
I will use this large post to explain to users (and those who've only just joined the forum less than a year ago but apparently believe that intentionally antagonizing other users is, for some unknown reason, warranted in an otherwise friendly discussion) that just because an article, or for that matter "ground-breaking research", states something, that does not make it the final word. Research changes constantly. What's right today may be wrong tomorrow. You are encouraged to express your POV in a civilised manner and have every right to disagree with hings your read.


Quote: "I will use this small post to emphasize to any future (and current) readers and commenters, that they should actually read the article linked in the OP, before commenting."

Funny thing is I did have a brief look over the article. I just happened to disagree with it but I did not feel the need to start "ripping into it" so I put my point across in a more amicable and conversational manner.

I could rip into it if I wanted. Here, I just pulled some things I disagree with (some of many):

Quote: "Consistency” is a popular word used among designers."

Because users want that; consistency. The target platform in this case is user-oriented.

Quote: "What’s the benefit of following a design convention, if one doesn’t know why that convention exists?"

What's the use of going against an existing convention simply because you do not know why it exists? Indeed an examination of the entire situation from both points of view is required simply as the foundation. Furthermore, examination of the user's "comfort zone" must be considered, even if that comfort zone is not "optimized" for them.

Quote: "How does one even know if a certain platform convention is right for users in the first place?"

Users, being varied in the way they function, are different. This type of question is about as logical as saying "How does one know what is best for life forms". Their is no magic singular answer.

Quote: "What if a certain design convention is harmful to users? Should designers blindly follow it for the sake of consistency?"

What if inconsistency is more harmful? What if inconsistency alienates users? Are we creating a product tailored to the latest trends among developers or tailored to make the user's experience satisfactory?

Quote: "Should bad design practices and lack of design understanding persist because designers want to resort to platform design consistency as the answer to every problem?"

In most cases no, in the case of button-placement, yes. It is annoying to have to think "now this button says..." rather than instinctively knowing. Pragmatism.



What is ludicrous in this image is the idea that the user would follow this path of reading Okay, Cancel, Okay.
Old Users:
If it is a confirmation, the user will only read "ok" and then press it because "Yes, I want to scramble those eggs". In the event that User has a change of heart, User would instinctively jump straight to looking at button 2 and have no reason to look back, unless there was suddenly an OK where it shouldn't be.
New Users:
Now if we talk new users, we can say that User will read left-to-right (since our target market is western). So User sees OK and need not look any further. Why would User need to?
If User had a change of heart, User would look at OK and think "oh, no" and immediately move to the next option; Cancel. Well Cancel it then.
In short: There will likely never be a scenario where the user makes 3 shifts.

Quote: "...but you cannot ignore the fact that users will look at all of their options before they choose which action to take..."

I've never known somebody to continue searching for their car keys after finding them, hence the phrase "the last place you look".

I could go on... The persons involved could go on... These types of discussion are constructive provided they remain friendly. Unfortunately there are always those that feel the need to get venomous.

Remember, there is nothing wrong with having an opinion but there is everything wrong with expressing it in an offensive manner (that is rudeness towards or intentional antagonizing of somebody else, directly or through childish innuendos that do nothing other than make the person posting them look the child they are <--- see, I can do it too. It doesn't make me special and doesn't win me respect).

Seriously, if you act like a donkey, people will treat you like a donkey. This is not an limb-measuring contest it is about expression of ideas. I do not for one moment actually assert that my views are right because they are only right in my perception of the world just as opposing ideas are right in the minds of those to whom they belong.
But I am willing to concede that my ideas are not the be all and end all and I am willing to express myself without intentionally trying to antagonize others (given they did nothing to antagonize me first).
Now it's late and I'm tired and I'm busy with real-life problems so I'll excuse myself this even and hope that when I check my emails tomorrow I do not find some other childish remark (not that it's likely I'll bother to reply, but still).

And here is a tiny graphic of a lightbulb:
And here is another:

Disclaimer: The lightbulb does not imply any political ties between myself and the Electricity Empire.

"Quotes in signatures are just stupid, especially if you're quoting yourself" ~ me
AgentSam
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 01:25 Edited at: 12th Feb 2013 01:29
Maybe it's just a reflection of the tough life you've been living, nonZero (yes, I checked your previous posts where you wrote about it) -- but, I don't think you should be quite so keen to see other peoples posts as personal attacks against you. Which mine certainly weren't intended as.

So, yes, let us continue to be civil.

Cheers,
AgentSam
nonZero
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 16:43
Quote: "Maybe it's just a reflection of the tough life you've been living, nonZero (yes, I checked your previous posts where you wrote about it) -- but, I don't think you should be quite so keen to see other peoples posts as personal attacks against you. Which mine certainly weren't intended as."


Please so not attempt to analyze me. It is offensive, irrespective of how it was intended. If somebody is not requesting an analysis of themselves then offering one is usually regarded as socially unacceptable behavior. I'm sure you would feel the same if somebody did that to you. To be honest, that above-quoted post of yours comes across as somewhat patronizing (about a five on a scale of one to ten).

Also, I never described your post as a personal attack, merely that it was intentionally antagonizing. You cannot deny that it was aimed at me because it was me with whom you last interacted on this thread. You also cannot deny that the post was insinuating that I had not read the article. You cannot deny that the tone came across as mildly arrogant. Finally, I am pretty sure - though I'll stand corrected here - that your reference to your post being "small" was because my prior post was lengthy. However, as I said, I'll stand corrected on this last point as people often accidentally word things in ways open to multiple interpretations.

If you truly do not mean to be offensive and are genuinely convinced that I am reacting in an unfair way then I would suggest that you make more of a point of studying human social interactions with a broader scope than merely your peer group and the media.
A simple question you should ask yourself is this: "Did I make a comment on the subject we are discussing or the person(s) I am discussing it with?" If your answer is that you made a comment regarding someone else then it is fair to say you probably should be careful about posting it.

I'm not lecturing you, I'm offering you some friendly advice coming from from personal experience. I too have had my moments on the net and to be quite honest I would be tempted to delete those threads or at least the posts I made given the chance. I think one of the problems of the internet is that people have tried to live by different social rules than in "real life". There is also the problem that anonymity, even in a small dose, tends to make one less reserved. This is fine for places that are not community-oriented but these forums are. So, while I may get annoyed by posts like yours, I wouldn't hold it against you unless you said something really offensive. With that in mind, I'm taking the time to explain this to you because I would rather that I stayed on good terms with everyone here and because creating tension and negativity is counter-productive.

At the end of the day though, much like the button placement debate, there will always be a debate on what is acceptable or not socially. But something undeniable is that we all have the right to not be insulted by others and we all have the right to our own beliefs so far as conduct is concerned. In that regard, you are still free to maintain that your posts are acceptable but, equally, you are forced to acknowledge my right to take exception to them.

"Quotes in signatures are just stupid, especially if you're quoting yourself" ~ me
RUCCUS
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 16:59
I think I might write my own article; "Why Posting About Button Positioning Can Cause World War 3". It'll be good.
nonZero
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 17:23
Nah, make a documentary, it'll be more fun. I want David Hayter to read my lines though

"Quotes in signatures are just stupid, especially if you're quoting yourself" ~ me
AgentSam
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 17:26
Ruccus, a great idea - it would certainly keep us entertained.

(And I will refrain any temptation to post further replies on this thread.)

Cheers,
AgentSam
Kezzla
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 19:48
Quote: "I think I might write my own article; "Why Posting About Button Positioning Can Cause World War 3". It'll be good."


I put my cat mug down on the big red launch nuke button, if only it were on the other side. My elbow would still have pushed it, but I would not have spilled my cup of tea...

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing.
Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 22:49
Quote: "In Windows you often see "<- Back", "Next ->", "Cancel", which doesn't make any logical sense.
"Cancel", "<- Back", "Next ->", works much better."


Why? Typical dialogs have never given me any issues with button placement.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Michael P
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Posted: 12th Feb 2013 22:59 Edited at: 12th Feb 2013 22:59
A related topic. Have you seen facebook in a language that reads right to left? Really cool how its all flipped (not just the text). Must be irritating to maintain and test from a coding perspective.

My personal opinion is that button placement on touch phones is all about how easy it is to reach. I'm left handed so frequently notice apps designed for right handed people making it awkward for me to use. i.e. when using the phone with one hand we use our thumb to do most of the work.

I am actually surprised that I haven't used a smart phone which has a setting for which hand you usually hold it in.

Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Feb 2013 00:55
Quote: "Quote: "In Windows you often see "<- Back", "Next ->", "Cancel", which doesn't make any logical sense.
"Cancel", "<- Back", "Next ->", works much better."

Why? Typical dialogues have never given me any issues with button placement."

If you are in a process and you want to go back or cancel the natural side to look is the left, since we read left to right moving left should take us back to the start. We want to back-out so we go left. Of course if you are used to a certain layout then it will be natural for you but it is not logical.

^ That's what she said.
mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 01:03
I don't want to participate here again, but [cancel] is always in corner not cause it's "top notch design" but because you always know that abort button in the corner, like you always know where's close [x] button is. You know what? I have hot tap on the left in my bath. Nobody never asks - why not on the right? Who cares. Or we can sue the nature because it has not give us option to choose the side for heart to be on.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
Thraxas
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 08:25
All my hot taps are on the right.

Kezzla
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 13:39
Quote: "All my hot taps are on the right."


madness I tell you. next you will tell me that you don't have red and blue markers on them.

Hot taps on the right... really. Such barbarity I thought we had moved beyond. cold shocks all around in thraxas' shower. nasty.

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing.
Isocadia
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 18:52
My hot tabs are all on the left xD
mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 19:19
Thraxas
Quote: "All my hot taps are on the right."

Isocadia
Quote: "My hot tabs are all on the left xD"


See? Now we need a scientific article to choose the one and real side for hot taps forever.

P.S. But [cancel] should be in the corner untill the world's end.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
nonZero
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 20:22
Okay, I've got a better idea. Behold:

[OKancel]

It's a single button that represents OK and Cancel. The idea is that a single click or tap is for cancel and a double click or tap for okay. When there are many options, say [Yes] [No] [Always] [Never] you tap or click many times. It may be annoying but consider the health benefits to giving your fingers such a good workout. I'm way ahead of my time.

"Quotes in signatures are just stupid, especially if you're quoting yourself" ~ me
Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 20:48
Clearly the future of okay/cancel is to simply do away with the buttons and hook up a Kinect to everyone's computer. Simply hold your left/right arms out corresponding to which option you wish to select, and say 'Okay' or 'Cancel' whenever you want to select an option. Everything's better with Kinect!
mr Handy
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 20:55 Edited at: 15th Feb 2013 20:56
Kinect? Pff. Voice recognition FTW!!! (already done btw)

P.S. ...and I can chop carrots while installing software lol

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
nonZero
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Posted: 15th Feb 2013 22:02
Quote: "P.S. ...and I can chop carrots while installing software lol"

Okay, I concede this thread to mr Handy.
Nothing beats chopping carrots while installing software except chopping carrots with your feet while installing software and I don't know anyone who can do that.

"Quotes in signatures are just stupid, especially if you're quoting yourself" ~ me
mr Handy
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Posted: 16th Feb 2013 06:13
I mean that voice recognition for basic dialog boxes is neat thing. And you can keep your hands on something else!

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***
Indicium
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Posted: 16th Feb 2013 17:38
I agree with using some sort of camera. Have it use facial recognition, and cancel when you pull a sceptical face (eg, raise an eyebrow, have a face that says "really though?")


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
mr Handy
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Posted: 16th Feb 2013 18:25
@Indicium

No, in this case I can't install anything while in the bad mood at the monday's morning.

*** Merry Chuckmas! ***

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