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Geek Culture / Sell DBPro Games on Steam?

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ViktorLazarev
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 17:33
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Herro everyone.
Is it possible to sell a game on Steam that was made in DBPro for free or for some price? I just asking.

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TheComet
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 17:56
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...Because everyone would sell a game for free.

You buy the license to sell games when you buy DBP. If you're using the free version, you don't have the right to sell the games you make until you buy the license.

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 19:19
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Beyond that though, yes you're allowed to, but you'd need to get it approved either by valve directly, or through steam greenlight.
Getting steamworks (all the steam features like the overlay, achievements, workshop etc) to work with a DBP game would be another issue entirely as well if you wanted to use any of them, but it is possible.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 19:50
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Never seen any finished DBP game

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TheComet
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 20:05
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Quote: "Never seen any finished DBP game"


Off the top of my head:

1) Malevolence the sword of Akwzrenox (or however you write that)
2) Which
3) Where
4) How
5) Illusion of the Tower
6) RND Sprint
7) Rollerway
8) Future Aero Racing
9) Multiplayer Asteroids
10) Dego
11) Lab Rush
12) Monkey Bowling
13) Mechanizer
14) Asteroids on a Hypersphere
15) Doubt
16) Bruce
17) John

...There are probably more, those are the most memorable for me though.

Does PonyCraft count? I guess not.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 21:29
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Also, the Starwraith Series (one of which is for sale on Steam), don't forget them, they were all done in DB. Also, Soul Hunter by zzz, which is an awesome game. Also, Bizar Guy completed 2 of his projects. Dumbow and Cool by Drew Cameron.

There's plenty of them. It's just typically the people who hang out in Geek Culture don't finish. (of which I am guilty)

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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2013 10:57
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quick random search on youtube:

Asteroids on a Hypersphere - tech demo
Future Aero Racing - wip, graphics like from 1998, than 2013
Illusion of the Tower - wip
Mechanizer - not found
Dego - finished mediocre sprite game, could be done with DBC btw

Let me rephrase my statement according to OP:

Never seen any finished commercial quality DBP game.

Just opinion, no offence to any projects.

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TheComet
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2013 11:17 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2013 11:17
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Rollerway, Which, and Starwraith are "commercial" quality. But seriously, graphics quality != commercial quality, so Dego is just as commercial.

TheComet

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2013 11:43
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Quote: "Never seen any finished commercial quality DBP game."


http://store.steampowered.com/app/71000/

They've got a whole series of space games. Evochron Mercenary is their latest and it sells for the same price of any other commercial quality game, perhaps pricey for an indie title.

And...

http://uk.gamespot.com/tom-yum-goong/

This one was made after a Thai movie starring Tony Jaa (of Ong Bak fame) back in 2005. It also appeared in the TGC newsletter.

Quote: "Illusion of the Tower - wip"


It was completed, I remember playing the full version. Unfortunately the developer doesn't visit the forums anymore, most of his other projects he didn't complete and he had a little bit of a clash here when one of the easter eggs he put into Illusion of the Tower was hentai, but he was a decent member of the community and Illusion of the Tower was plenty fun to play.


Besides, DBP is mainly aimed at hobbyists and indies and it has been used for that said purpose, some have had some commercial success too.

It is possible to great a commercial quality game and release on Steam using Dark Basic Pro, but you need to have the ability to actually do it. Same goes for any game creation tool out there. It's not an easy thing to achieve, especially now as there's a lot more competition in the indie game market, but it HAS been done and there are plenty of good quality Dark Basic Pro games out there, even if they're not of Crysis graphics quality...but then such games require large teams and large budgets with plenty of resource and if you have that kind of money, then you don't really need to use Dark Basic Pro.

The point of Dark Basic Pro is to offer ease and power for those with a smaller budget. Be they a hobbyist, indie or a small games studio. Sword of Ahkranox has got a decent following, it hasn't been released yet, but it will be interesting to see if they managed to get the commercial success they deserve. At least so far they managed to get enough attention for their Kickstarter. Maybe one day we'll see it on Steam, it certainly has that potential.

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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2013 12:47
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In the indi market, there are tons of DBPro games that qualify, anything that Binary Zoo have done for example, Dark Coders competition games, most of the games in the puzzle comp... when you look there are a helluva lot of finished games that wouldn't be out of place as commercial indi games - and are a lot better than most of the crud that we see on the 360.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 09:51
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Quote: "there are plenty of good quality Dark Basic Pro games out there, even if they're not of Crysis graphics quality"

Let me guess, all of them are shooters?

Also, is there a full list of finished DBP games? (not FPSC)

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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 13:22
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Don't forget FPS Creator engine itself was created in DBPro.

There's no central registry of DBPro games, because all these projects are disconnected individuals driving towards their own goals.

For me I just need to point out the star wraith series to understand whta DB/ DBPro can do.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 14:21 Edited at: 24th Feb 2013 14:24
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Quote: "There's no central registry of DBPro games"

That's wrong If there are lots of good games - we need a portfolio.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 14:53 Edited at: 24th Feb 2013 14:58
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Quote: "Let me guess, all of them are shooters?"


Nope! We've already given some examples of non-shooter games complete in Dark Basic Pro.

For lists, well you have to do a bit of digging yourself. There's some games available from the Alienware, Intel and Puzzle Competitions.

As Daniel says there's no registry of these games. Nobody's gone around looking for every DBP game out there to make a list of them. TGC used to have a collection of some DB titles, but I think they disappeared after the site was revamped, some were finished projects and some were incomplete and it hasn't been updated in years anyway.

Some examples of non shooter Dark Basic titles:
Blockverse by Bizar Guy - Puzzle
Soulhunter by zzz - RPG/Adventure
Illusion of the Tower by Mike Inel - Action
Piper by Darkcoder - Puzzle
Dumbow and Cool by Drew Cameron - 3D Platformer
Tom Yum Goong - beat 'em up
Evochron Mercenary by Starwraith Games - whilst it does have shooting in it, it is a space sim, meaning shooting isn't central to gameplay, as trading is also an important part.
Dego by Jimpo - RPG
Malevolence - RPG, yes, it's not released, but it is in BETA, which is why it's worth mentioning.
Eternal Equinox by MISoft - Text Adventure
Which by Mike Inel - Horror

What else do you need? There's an awful lot you can do with DBP and a lot people have already done with DBPro, not exactly sure what you're trying to prove?


Quote: "If there are lots of good games - we need a portfolio."


Only if TGC feel the need to show off a portfolio. Not everybody builds a portfolio for their tools. There's a list of features, a gallery to look at and a forum to browse before people decide to try out DB/DBPro and also have the option to download Dark Basic Pro for free themselves and try it out.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 15:08
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From a marketing standpoint, ti would make sense for TGC to keep tabs on their most successful user-made games.

Just look at the UdK main page. It's half advertising the engine, half advertising major projects people have made in it. Arguably the latter is more powerful than the former at getting people to use the engine.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 15:24
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I'm sure it would help. However, I wouldn't use a lack of a portfolio as an indicator that there's little good quality games or that the software is not a good quality itself.

UDK has a big advantage too in that it was originally a AAA game engine that's extremely expensive and cost a lot of money to produce and was produced by a very wealthy games studio. When I say expensive, I am talking about several thousand dollars for games companies to use and definitely out of reach for many. I remember seeing some of the licensing docs and the cost was staggering. Bedroom coders were only allowed to mod the engine, but now Unreal have realised they can make a profit from indies and bedroom coders, they decided to make their engine accessible. Which makes it a lot harder for smaller game engines/software made by much smaller companies. Unity3D managed to adapt by releasing the Indie version of their engine for free (previously $200) and they've stretched out to other platforms too.

It doesn't mean tools like Dark Basic Pro are suddenly worthless, it just means the competition is a lot harder (and perhaps why the community is not as lively), meaning DBP's main selling point is its ease of use, which I suppose has now been directed to AppGameKit, as mobile development is the main playground and it's where a tool like AppGameKit can get more love. It would also explain why AppGameKit is getting most of TGC's attention these days.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 15:35
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Quote: "UDK has a big advantage too in that it was originally a AAA game engine that's extremely expensive and cost a lot of money to produce and was produced by a very wealthy games studio. When I say expensive, I am talking about several thousand dollars for games companies to use and definitely out of reach for many."


All the games advertised on its page are made with the recent free variant.

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare is a great example. Also ridiculously fun.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 16:22
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Yep, but the point was the software itself had a lot of money invested into it and was really only accessible to AAA games before, now that it's accessible to low budget groups, it already has an advantage. I'm sure the showcase section helps increase people's interest, but DBPro and UDK aren't in the same league. UDK offers extremely powerful tools that DBPro cannot simply compete against, I doubt TGC can afford that kind of budget, unless of course Lee has a rich uncle.

But DBP's main attraction is its simplicity. It's capable of being powerful too, but offers a nice learning curve for anybody who's less knowledgeable or for anybody who wants to work with something simple.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 17:28
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Quote: "I doubt TGC can afford that kind of budget"


My point was that they could showcase user-made games to boost their marketing. This doesn't cost more than a few polite emails and some research.

UDK was an example of an engine that does this. In marketing, not in functionality, price or usability.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 18:57
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I'm sure it'd help. It's a different time and there's more competition. Though I think AGK's more important at the moment, the AppGameKit site has a nice gallery of user content. http://www.appgamekit.com/gallery.php

I know there's a gallery on the main TGC site too, but this one stands out a little more and I think does a better job at showcasing AppGameKit, as it shows projects, not just loads of screenshots.

To be fair, DBP used to have a showcase section on this site, but I think it's long dead now, I remember it was not updated for quite a while.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 24th Feb 2013 19:52
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I think it's more easy to make a fan-site DBP gallery, maybe mr Valentine can plug such on his site.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 07:22
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Quote: "I think it's more easy to make a fan-site DBP gallery, maybe mr Valentine can plug such on his site."


Precisely what I was thinking... though I would require permission and where possible download versions of their games if they are now free to download... or demos...

My repository is not just for files it is originally a photo gallery, I just used its extended functionality to manage large files

But I do not have the time to contact and navigate around the forum to find such projects, however anybody can join the repository and upload the files and then ask me to set up a public album to place the files into, keeping your profile hidden while you collect more material...

I am more than happy to host the files and content, as long as it is all TGC Product based, as in made by DBPro/AGK/GDK, I have a separate site for FPSC projects.

Regarding the original question, I see no reason why DBPro games cannot be on Steam, and Evochron I believe uses GDK now no?

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mr Handy
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 12:08
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Maybe we should create a thread here or in the wip or else, where users can leave you links and "permissions"

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MrValentine
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 12:58 Edited at: 25th Feb 2013 13:02
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Good idea

EDIT

Actually you could just post it in my Repository Thread

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TheComet
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 13:31
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Don't forget Rollerway. I played that game to death and it was made with DBP. Never actually was able to complete that final level.

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ViktorLazarev
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 17:12
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So in a nut shell, if I want to sell DBPro games on Steam, I would have to get a licence for the full version, and get it approved on Greenlight. That's going to be hard.

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Wolf
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 17:36
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Its never easy

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Without struggle,no progress and no result.Every breaking of habit produces a change in the machine.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 17:45
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Quote: "So in a nut shell, if I want to sell DBPro games on Steam, I would have to get a licence for the full version, and get it approved on Greenlight. That's going to be hard."


It's by no means an easy goal. You would need a really good project that lots of people want to play and also have the ability to market it to Greenlight users. Of course, Steam isn't your only outlet for getting people to play your games, but it's all about creating something people want to play. At the end of the day, regardless of what toolset you prefer to use, it's up to your own skills.

Sometimes a simple concept can get a lot of attention too. It really depends on what attracts people and how you end up marketing your final project. To be honest, this is the kind of thing I'd be worried about towards the end of development because you'd be able to see if what you've created is worth it.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 20:47
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also greenlight costs $100 for participating

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MrValentine
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Posted: 25th Feb 2013 21:40
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Quote: "also greenlight costs $100 for participating"


Only thanks to the whole barrage of prOn that was being stuck on it...

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mr Handy
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Posted: 26th Feb 2013 06:54
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They say it means that you in the firm belief that you game will pass. Well, I agree.

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ViktorLazarev
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Posted: 28th Feb 2013 17:20
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Quote: "
also greenlight costs $100 for participating
"

Is it really that expensive?!?! wow... How about... THE WINDOWS STORE!!!

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Feb 2013 20:44
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What about ORIGIN!!!

or UPLAY!!!
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Quik
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Posted: 28th Feb 2013 23:19
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100$ for entering greenlight is hardly expensi- oh wait.. there's like 10% chcne the game actually gets on steam..
x)



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ViktorLazarev
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Posted: 1st Mar 2013 17:23
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Origin and UPlay? I've heard of Origin, but not uplay. But what about Windows Store, is that hard to put a game/app on to that? Or am I talking crazy things about Windows 8 and the Windows store....

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Quik
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Posted: 1st Mar 2013 19:33
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Origin AFAIK only sells EA specific games... as in - the games that EA publishes goes on there, period



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The Zoq2
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Yea, the origin and uplay thing was a joke. Uplay is ubisofts system which nobody realy uses, origin is EA's system which some people use because EA only sell some games on there. But last week, EA and ubisoft started to sell eachother games on the platforms
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2013 13:23
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Quote: "But last week, EA and ubisoft started to sell eachother games on the platforms"


End ov steem as we no it guise.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 4th Mar 2013 06:50 Edited at: 4th Mar 2013 06:50
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You can also sell your games via your own site. It's not a big deal, for example TGWTG have their own shop running well.

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ViktorLazarev
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Thank you all for the advise!

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Dutrius
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 22:56
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Dark Basic games should work on Steam, you just need to figure out how to integrate it with the Steam overlay, which is coded in C or one of its variants

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 09:02 Edited at: 11th Apr 2013 09:05
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AFAIR Steam accepts only C++ edit: and flash

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Van B
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 12:45
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Evochron Mercenary is on Steam though, and that's plain old DBPro. Maybe he made a plugin to handle the Steam requirements.

People should just concentrate on making their game as polished and relevant as they can - if it's good enough it'll make it onto Steam. Not every game has to be green lit - Valve never gonna turn down a profitable game, Green lighting is there to build up marketting more than giving the end user a say. Imagine if every game on Steam had to be green lit - Steam would be a costly nightmare for Valve to operate. If nobody has ever heard of your game, green lighting is probably the best bet - get people looking at it, drum up some interest. Even if it costs $100, it's probably more than worth that just for the number of new eyes on your product. But if your confident in your game idea, if your planning a fair price and are behind the project 100% then it's worth trying the direct approach I think.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 12:53
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EM's author is still here?

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Van B
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 13:10
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I don't think he uses the forum much, but he does keep TGC updated, newsletter features etc etc. I don't know if he's still using DBPro for his game series, I think there was a mention of switching to DarkGDK.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 13:37
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If he has such steam plugin, it would be nice to share...

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Jimpo
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 19:41
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Quote: "AFAIR Steam accepts only C++ edit: and flash"

Steams can accept any game that runs from a Windows executable.

I did a quick search to find the page I read this on, but couldn't find it again. But I do remember reading it because when I was starting my current game project, I was deciding on whether to use C++ or Java, and a big factor in my choice was whether or not Steam could even run a Java game.

http://degorpg.blogspot.com/
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mr Handy
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Quote: "Do you take XNA, Flash or Adobe Air games?
Yes, we accept all three types on Steam. Flash games need to be wrapped so that they launch from a stand-alone executable.

What language is the Steamworks API available in?
The Steamworks API is written in C++.

Do you have a .NET or Actionscript wrapper?
We do not have any wrappers available as part of the SDK.

Do you have a DRM solution for .NET, Flash and Adobe Air?
We currently do not have a way to DRM these titles.

What engines does Steamworks support?
Steamworks is written in C++ and can be integrated into any engine. Currently, no wrappers are provided for languages other than C++. There are no specific engine requirements for submitting your game to Steam or using Steamworks."


The last paragraph: I don't understnd it; I can't find more info.

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 20:49
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Basically means that any game can be put on steam, no matter what it's made with, but if you want to use steamworks features (for DLC, online matchmaking etc) then you'll either need to be using C++ or have some way of wrapping their C++ code to work with your language.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 22:23
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So it means no DRM, achi's and DLC. That's uncool.

«Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful»
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