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Geek Culture / Bitcoin

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Libervurto
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 02:50 Edited at: 10th Mar 2013 02:51
Wikipedia page.

I heard of bitcoin a few years ago, thought "that's a neat idea!", but I was too cautious to take a serious interest in it or start using it. Does anyone on the forums use bitcoin? What are your experiences using it? Do you think it really is the future of money?


Kevin Picone
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 04:11
Quote: "Do you think it really is the future of money?"


Nope.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 04:48
Ideally any time we can stay away from fiat currencies, that makes the future of the economy safer and more reliable. Currencies like this are incredibly prone to inflation.
Indicium
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 06:14
I still don't get it. The concept is your GPU creates money? eh?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 12:11
I've read the whitepaper several times, but I still don't really understand it. It basically relies on cryptographic hashing algorithms to produce unique values which are very hard to find, but easy to validate. The example from their wiki:

We must find a variation on the base string "Hello, world!" + nonce which produces an SHA1 starting with "000".
Quote: ""Hello, world!0" => 1312af178c253f84028d480a6adc1e25e81caa44c749ec81976192e2ec934c64
"Hello, world!1" => e9afc424b79e4f6ab42d99c81156d3a17228d6e1eef4139be78e948a9332a7d8
"Hello, world!2" => ae37343a357a8297591625e7134cbea22f5928be8ca2a32aa475cf05fd4266b7
...
"Hello, world!4248" => 6e110d98b388e77e9c6f042ac6b497cec46660deef75a55ebc7cfdf65cc0b965
"Hello, world!4249" => c004190b822f1669cac8dc37e761cb73652e7832fb814565702245cf26ebb9e6
"Hello, world!4250" => 0000c3af42fc31103f1fdc0151fa747ff87349a4714df7cc52ea464e12dcd4e9"


Once this value is found, it is then 'verified' by several other computers as a proof of work. Note it is much harder to generate this value than it is to prove it (4251 hashes to generate, 1 hash to prove).

The guy who came up with the idea is an absolute genius, the algorithm is pretty much bullet-proof.

I dabbled around with it a bit when it was starting out and had some fun trying to push my hardware to the limit. It then got quite serious, with people dropping thousands on new rigs with an array of graphics cards and it was basically pointless trying to compete. Nowadays even graphics cards are not efficient enough (power costs are too high for the hashes generated) and FPGAs and custom ASICs are starting to dominate.

TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 12:33
How is the currency anchored? How can you convert EUR to BTC for example?

TheComet

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 13:37
There are various currency exchanges, just as with other currencies.

TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 16:07
That doesn't answer my question. Currencies such as the Dollar or Euro represent gold (or at least they used to, now they represent debt).

I ask again, what does BTC represent? Is it a floating currency?

TheComet

bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 16:11 Edited at: 10th Mar 2013 16:12
Quote: "Is it a floating currency?"


It's anchor is essentially computing time.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
Melancholic
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 16:13
Quote: "Currencies like this are incredibly prone to inflation."


No, its the complete opposite since there is a finite amount...




I can count to banana...
The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 21:00
Quote: "That doesn't answer my question. Currencies such as the Dollar or Euro represent gold (or at least they used to, now they represent debt).

I ask again, what does BTC represent? Is it a floating currency?

TheComet"


No need to be finicky, I misread your question.

Matty H
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 22:34
I would say bitJericho is correct, they are grounded in the work put in to discover new coins. In this way they have many similarities to a gold based currency.

Jeku
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 23:01
I've heard horror stories of people accidentally deleting $50,000 worth of bitcoins. I guess some people have never heard of backups?


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 23:17 Edited at: 10th Mar 2013 23:18
Quote: "No, its the complete opposite since there is a finite amount...

"


The US dollar took a beating in April 2012. That graph is giving the false idea of a bitcoin deflation, because in reality the US dollar inflated.

Here's a more recent graph:



Also, you might be interested in this:





TheComet

Indicium
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 23:34
If you ask me, it's a massive waste of amps.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Airslide
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 00:12
Quote: "I've heard horror stories of people accidentally deleting $50,000 worth of bitcoins. I guess some people have never heard of backups?"


I don't understand Bitcoin that well, but if the supply is supposedly finite, wouldn't stuff like this cause you to eventually run out of currency?
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 00:53
Ah, if it's a finite system, as more people use it, each person has a harder time obtaining it, making the value of the money go higher, which is a really good thing. Same reason gold's value is going up, although we are constantly mining it, it's of such a low quantity anyway that we might as well consider it a finite 'currency' and the value of gold is indeed rising because of this.
Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 01:55
Can anyone break down, in 1 or 2 sentences, what is a bitcoin exactly and why I should care?

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 03:00
Quote: "In this way they have many similarities to a gold based currency."


Except there can't be a huge influx of bitcoins because as more hardware resources go up the complexity of generating bitcoins go up.

Quote: "I don't understand Bitcoin that well, but if the supply is supposedly finite, wouldn't stuff like this cause you to eventually run out of currency?"


The value of a Bitcoin would go up as less and less bitcoins stay in circulation.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
Jeku
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 05:25
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/

I recommend everyone read that article outlining the bitcoin story. It's very fascinating!


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 06:45
Thx jeku

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
easter bunny
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 07:46
I read something (not sure where) about viruses that use bit coin mining to make money for the bot net master. Does anyone know anything about this?

There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those who don't
http://splatstudio.joshwebsites.com/
Melancholic
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 08:51
Quote: "The US dollar took a beating in April 2012. That graph is giving the false idea of a bitcoin deflation, because in reality the US dollar inflated."


It didn't take so much of a beating as for the price per bitcoin to rise so drastically, also if you look at the x axis that graph isn't of 2012, here's a graph of the value of bitcoin over a very long period of time, note the logarithmic y axis so changes are more drastic than they appear.




I can count to banana...
Libervurto
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 11:45
@Jeku - That article was brilliant, almost like a short thriller, except we never found out who Satoshi was. I will be looking out for Benjamin Wallace's articles in future.


TheComet
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 17:52
I agree, that article was a great find. Thanks a lot for sharing!

TheComet

bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 18:55
I loved the comments too. Particularly the guy talking about people loosing bitcoins due to the owners lapse of judgement concerning security. He said something like, would you store 100,000 under the mattress in a house in a neighborhood where burglaries happen every night and burns down every six months?

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Mar 2013 12:28
It bothers me that people will blame bitcoin for the stupidity of some users. Keep a backup and a printout and don't have your main wallet connected to the internet, I learned that from five minutes of looking into the subject.

Besides, we've all had a pretty recent example that banks screw up and lose our money too, while charging ridiculous fees and interest rates.


Airslide
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 15:21
Quote: "The value of a Bitcoin would go up as less and less bitcoins stay in circulation."


Of course, but while resources like gold are technically finite, I don't know if we've ever had a commonly accepted currency that has yet maxed out (and if we did, where is it now?). Is it really just going to get more and more valuable to compensate, or will it crash when no more resources are being expended mining it and the only thing keeping its value up is faith?
Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 20:28

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