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Hello folks,

I think there is some months i have gone out from this amazing forum comunity, it was because i also have a real life . I was involved in a lot of jobs (i work now as a webdesigner), but i always used to visit this wonderfull community, and see so many improvement on our beloved FPSC. I also "retired" to improve my skills in 3dsmax. Now i need some help of the folks here, specially Mr. Rolfy, if he can help me. I am trying to port some custom Counter Strike Source Maps to FPSC, they are free, i downloaded from gamebanana.com, and it is just for studying purposes.

The problem is that i don`t know the best way to slice a level to export for fpsc. I am doing like rolfy did in his video i have seen of the Aeguls MOD, that monster walking in the level, climbing, indeed, it was awesome.

About the texture baking, i am baking all the illumination in the textures, then export it to FPSC. I already found a good workflow using a plugin called Flatiron, i am doing all the lighting with VRay, and then i bake the textures with Flatiron. I adapted some maxscripts i downloaded from scriptspot, so now with only a few clicks i bake the textures on the objects, then i run those maxscripts to copy the UVW information to channel 1, then i set the material as a self-ilumination, then i have it perfect in FPSC, without even the need to use a self-illumination shader in FPSC, because i can embed in the x-file all the lighting information baked in the textures.

But regarding the slice, the level i import in to 3dsmax (exported from source engine), it comes as an OBJ file, already textured, but the entire level is one single mesh, however, it has a Multi/Sub Object material applied with materials ID.

Here are my questions:

Before all, i know i could test all those questions and try to find the answer by myself, however, i don`t have too much free time to test all this, and this would cause me too much frustation, wasting time doing something, and then see that there are more simple and easier ways of doing it.

1- Trully, i don`t know the best way to begin. I know characters in FPSC can`t walk over entities (static). I thought in first place separate the flor from the level mesh. But if i export the floor as a separate object, and use it as a kind of overlay (without any collisions), and use underneath it a floor made by segments (invisible texture), will this work? Characters would be able to walk over it?

2- If i export my floor as a single object (floor.x), in example, will it affect too much the performance, because it will be a HUGE model in FPSC? I think the FPSC culling system only culls objects (entire), and not polygon faces, at least on old FPSC editions i have tested and have seen that if you use a HUGE static model, it will cull the entire model, so if you have a BIG house, and you are far away from it, it will not show, but if you come close to it, it will show the entire model. So for the floor, theorically it would be always visible, it would not be culled. Have someone confirmed this information?

3- If i break this floor, slice it to use inside Segment Editor and make it segments, so all the slices would need to be in the same size of a real FPSC segment, is this true? Or can i import a segment piece inside Segments Editor of any size, even if it does not match the same Segments Editor size?

4- How can i align those segments pieces inside segment editor, because i think is almost impossible you align those pieces perfectly, because we don`t have guidelines inside Segments Editor, so how can it be done?

5- About the other parts of the level, like walls, scenery details, and such. I think i need to separate the walls first, but to export those walls, also can i use a big model (unique) for all the walls in the level inside FPSC, or is better break those models into smaller parts? The characters will be able to move close to those walls (bearing in mind that those walls are not segments, but entities?

6- One possible solution, but i think it would be almost impossible to apply it for making an entire game because of the ammount of time it would consume, is to make the entire level segments, i mean break the floor into 40x40 pieces (to match the FPSC map size), get each wall and break it into segments (dividing each wall in the exact size of one FPSC segment), and such.

7- About the level props (barrel, light bulbs, and such), do i have to export each one separated or combine all the level props into one unique x file (props.x). I export it to FPSC, as a static entity, so they would be one HUGE object in almost the same size (space) of the level itself. Again my question, will it affect the overall performance of the game? And would the characters be able to walk "inside" the space that those props are located

8- Last, but not least, how does the FPSC collision system works? I know we have polygon collision, box collision, and such. But about the box collision, if i have one x-file that is made of various objects (not only one), does the bounding box collision will be created over the entire x-file or it will create one bounding box collision for each object that is inside my x-file?

Sorry for taking too long, but if some one could give me lights over those difficulties i am facing, i would be very gratefull...

Cheers,

007.

As no one else has replied I will make comment though I am not sure it will be of any help.

Very large entities use or if broken into many smaller pieces to be placed/joined together in editor are likely to both potentially have issues of varying degrees depending upon many factors. e.g. the actual structure of the entities and the software tools used to create, convert and export them for use in FPSC as well as considerations as to how FPSC actually manages the various type of object/entity relative to sizes, physics and and on some of which you have eluded to. Largely due to the fact that FPSC is not necessarily designed to use/create/manage level content of that kind out of the box by default.

If you deviate from the FPSC basic requirements for content handling as the engine expects content to be created/supplied then issues are likely to arise the severity of which may vary depending on many factors.

Sure workarounds can sometimes improve results to again various extent but the amount of work involved, the extensivness of the workarounds required and the results can be both hit and miss or not worth the effort. Its difficult for anyone to be precise as the entities you create and use are unknown in their suitability and make up.

You have answered some of your own questions. e.g Yes if you place default ground segments under a terrain type entity in relatively flat areas enemies will be able to appear to walk over them and can do so and such also has the ability to restrict their movements around the level to those areas where the ground segments exists which can be a level design bonus keeping enemies where you want them to be/go as they will not move off/further than the edge of the ground segments. Large entities can have numerous other issues of course, number of polygons and credibility of model, collision issues, placement in level and placement of entities over or on them and so on.

Creating a test level and actually trying out some tests by placing some of your entities in them are the best way to quickly look for issues as the actually entity suitability is not known by anyone here. The hard part is not knowing if adding extensive numbers of them will cause issues later when you have spent a great deal of time creating your level only to discover issues compound as more is added which is likely to be the case potentially.

Sounds like a lot of work to me but if you are willing to give it a try then the answer will be forthcoming. There are too many possible variable parameters involved to give any definitive answers as to what might be successful in each individual case.

Clearly FPSC has issues and attempting variation from the defaults out of the box can be fraught with difficulty and or a great deal of work at best and the results unpredictable.

It may be better if you can wait like many others for Reloaded and see what if any benefits that may bring to what you wish to do though no one yet knows when that may be released in a condition suitable for your needs, if indeed it will be so, nor how long you may have to wait. October has been suggested as a possible date for a release of some kind. Possibly part release of development beta sooner or full release who knows when. Its just too early for anyone to help with advice with that too.

Not many options I am afraid. Go for it now or wait an unspecified amount of time for Reloaded.

I am sure there are others here that can take this up and perhaps give you more detailed feedback on your specific issues. At the end of the day though you will have to decide and do or not do before you will get your proof of success or failure.

If you go ahead then likely that you will at least learn a great deal which may serve you in good stead later when Reloaded comes along perhaps. You may also of course have some assets ready you may be able to use or incorporate if suitable for use in Reloaded though again I would not know if thats likely or not as yet until we can test something of it.

Dear Uman,

Thanks man, for this "Philosophyc" answer. Indeed, i benefited too much from those tips.

In resume, i will try yes and see what will happen. I think the best way yes is like you said, have the enemies where i want. I am not willing to create a Farcry 3 game, where the characters have their "own life and inteligence", so the go where they want to go, and such.

As i said early, i am working, by myself, in a Goldeneye 007 Fan Game, and as i am working alone, i will be modifiyng some free custom maps made for Counter Strike Source (i already got authorization form the creators of those maps to use them, so long as i give them proper credits) instead of modelling them from scracth.

I think this approach is the best one, a good gameplay design. And if you had the opportunity to play the new Goldeneye 007 for Nintendo Wii (remake of the old N64), yes, the characters also only appear where the designers wanted them to appear, and even if you shoot them, they stay restricted to some kind of "moving area".

Again, thanks for those tips.

Cheers,

007.

Yes and no, you can remove collision from the terrain entity and have collision with floor below, you wont get collision with the terrain in this way.

Depends entirely on poly count, having a low poly huge scale model wont affect performance any more than a small higher poly model.

Segment slices must be exactly 100x100.

I dont really understand this question if your referring to props then you would create these as single models in the first place. If your referring to architecture and structures then it depends on whether they are meant to be entered or whatever.

Welcome to the world of making floors and terrain for current FPSC its a tedious process which takes patience and work. This should only be necessary for the floor however.

You answer your own question here, it would be pointless.

Box collision applies to entire object, if you want collision on complex objects then use poly or break the model into parts, see answer above.

Thanks Rolfy,

I was waiting your tips, i think now i already have enough information to get my hands on.

Best Regards,

007.

So your still working on this one?
I would help out more but overwhelmed with work right now

Regardless, uman is right you should concentrate on getting your props ready, use the terrain you have and see what FPSCR comes up with. You can worry about your enemy collision at the end of your design.
If, as I believe terrain will be editable in FPSCR you could conform it to your original terrain when it becomes available.

Attached is a screen shot of a full 40 x 40 tile one piece terrain.

You can see that it consists of as it would sensibly I guess and in this instance a relatively flat interior bordered by some hilly areas around the boundaries. When covered with various other objects this can quite well be disguised as being relatively realistic especially when at a lower viewpoint of course FPSC not being kind to looking down on your levels the boundaries being so near. I have brightened this up so you can see there is an enemy which can move perfectly well over the terrain which has the default ground segment underneath the terrain areas in the majority of the level excepting the hilly areas so the enemies are restricted to the other parts for their movement around the level which in such small levels works fine. They can still shoot the player almost wherever he is located if within sight which is almost everywhere for one enemy or another in this case unless you restrict yourself to the hilly boundaries or hiding elsewhere.

Of course it is best if you have a plan for your level so when making your terrain you know where you want your flat areas to be so you can place your other content in the correct locations leaving the enemies to move around in the areas best suited to any game play scenario you might envisage taking place.

The only issue with this terrain is that it is difficult to place in Editor but no real problem otherwise other than for some reason in these later versions of FPSC when changes were made to it some while back since I have been unable to apply lighting or shaders to the level as the terrain turns almost white as being fully self illuminated and bright. I could probably fix that by either resetting the model with different UV/texture/material settings in the original file or creating a completely new one if I knew specifically what the issue was. As is this is not likely ever to become an actual game level I am not too worried about it. In any case I like most of my levels to be in daylight so I cant hide anything of my bad work though some level of light mapping might be nice to have. A sun would be good but as said wont work with this terrain.

FPSCR promises to be far superior to this of course and I am sure it will be so. Lee I believe intends to work on introducing terrain fairly early on in its development so hopefully you might see some of that potential reasonably soon. I do hope so.

Hope that helps.

Getting enemy characters to follow the contours is the trick. I have done a few terrains using sliced versions which work perfectly and in fact have taken to slicing only the parts of terrain which I expect enemies to use and the surrounding terrain (all from the same terrain mesh)for boundaries. You could slice your entity into 3x3 for segments at one time but since the introduction of null space this is now 1x1.

None of the terrain in this screen is totally flat but characters work fine.

Dark AI has issues with it though, I suspect this has to do with path finding, they don't fall through or get stuck and will go anywhere but don't follow contours. Any other scripted AI works perfect and will run up and down hills no problem.

Ah the null space!

Lets hope Reloaded leaves behind the null and just gives us the space and a lot more of it.

Thanks 007 for asking these questions as I was wondering along the same lines (or wandering down the same path).

Thanks Uman and Rolfy for these insightful answers.

Guys,

Trully, i can say to you, thanks, too much.

I know FPSCR will be far superior, but as i already have almost all of my assets FPSC ready, i am just now on the Levels Design, i think i will go with FPSC as it is, because untill we have a complete stable version of FPSCR i think it will take too long, and now, FPSC on its actual stage, is possible to finish a complete game fully and functional and fun, like Ertlov did with his recent "Into the Darkness".

Thanks for all folks,

007.