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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Dark Shader 2 (or alternative) - Petition

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 02:03
Rather worringly, that was the first thing that sprang to mind as I typed that.
Mobiius
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 19:16
lol, us Brits hey. lol

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Apr 2013 01:31
Indeed.
Clonkex
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2013 09:26
Quote: "Get rid of the 'preview window is not responding' message box. The inter-operation often requires the preview to spend 10 or 20 seconds to compile the shader or load a large texture; this message box is a bit irrelevant, in many cases the preview window is responding, it is busy loading."


This is a Windows dialogue and can't be disabled. It occurs when a program stops handling the Windows message pump (like the FASTSYNC commands does in DBPro). This can happen because something is taking a long time to process.

Clonkex

Chris Tate
DBPro Master
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2013 23:44 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2013 23:44
Quote: "This is a Windows dialogue and can't be disabled."


Oh, how come?

Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2013 04:40
Quote: "Oh, how come?"


Well as far as I know it's a Windows dialogue. If you take a screenshot of it I can confirm. If it IS a Windows dialogue, it's just how Windows detects when a program has locked up and there's no way of disabling it. But I can't get it to happen on my copy of Dark Shader and I can't remember if it's ever happened before so I can't confirm.

Clonkex

Chris Tate
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2013 12:59 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2013 13:00

Doubt it; that does not look like a message written by Microsoft.

Anyway, let's hope my editor will not do that.(Just for the record, the window is actually responding.)

Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2013 15:02
Ah. I was wrong, that's not a Windows dialogue at all. That dialogue is created by the IDE inside which DBPro is running (the preview window in DBPro). The IDE is obviously designed to detect when the preview window isn't responding and tell you. This clearly doesn't work, and I agree it should be removed/fixed.

Quote: "Anyway, let's hope my editor will not do that."


I haven't read this entire thread because it's massive. Are you creating your own equivalent to Dark Shader? That would be cool If you are, unless you write code that creates an error when the preview window stops responding, there should be no annoying warning dialogue

Clonkex

Chris Tate
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2013 17:03
I think the Dark Shader error message is simply a timer that throws the error when the time runs out before the window responds. In my program you can continue doing other things whilst the preview window is working without disrupting your activity; I can't see any issue working with more than one preview window.

It will be an editor inside of my own map and entity editor; an integrated tool; so the shader editor will be one of the main tool panels, along side texturing, light-mapping and UV mapping.

I doubt any error messages like the one above will disrupt your productivity, since I do not want to be disrupted myself. I'll be using the tool daily for my own purposes so I can spot the nuisances.

Chris Tate
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Posted: 1st May 2013 03:43 Edited at: 1st May 2013 03:58
Well, since I am currently spending a lot of time building a shader editing feature into my world editor, I may as well keep people up to date with what is happening.

The world editor I have been working on is primarily for my game's development and modding facilities; however, since it will be a few years before Sports Fiction is ready, and since we all could do with not just a comprehensive shader (and material) editor, but an integrated world editor that pieces maps, entities, materials and physics properties together ready with DBP in mind; I'll be spending the rest of 2013 building this editor so that it can be shared for free with limitations. All the fancy bells and whistles will come with a price tag.

It is highly likely that the editor will ship with Blender and Gimp as integrated plugins under GPL license so that content can be altered by these tools directly without having to reload maps or the editor itself.

With it you will get more out of the free version than you can purchasing Dark Shader; I can just tell already that once complete creating shaders will be 10 times more easier for learners and 10 times more expressive and creative for mature shader programmers.

In the first month of the shader editor I have planned and prepared a document class based on some of the WPF components and have completed a custom file dialog today; which generates thumbnails for images, remembers the last folder you referenced and stores it in a history list. I've also provided bookmarking so your favourite folders get remembered instead of having to repeatadly browse from A to B through folder by folder. The dialog can also load in multiple selections of textures can can display the textures in detail, list and thumbnail view with custom grouping by type.

I will be spending some months giving it a test run as a Counter Strike GO map creation tool; release my own CS map via the editors export facilities; which will hopefully help raise some awareness of the project and generate funds for its development.

Judging by how FPSC reloaded works out, it may feature some segment creation facilities.

After this period it will be used to finish of Sports Fiction.

The editor's progress will be showcased in the next Sports Fiction update in its own WIP thread in roughly 3 to 4 weeks time.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 1st May 2013 12:19
Sounds good. I'll watch out for this.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Jun 2013 18:42
@Chris Tate

I said earlier in this thread that I hadn't experienced any significant problems using Dark Shader on my W7 laptop. Well today I did.

I made a minor change to part of a shader for testing purposes and it just wouldn't finish compiling. I got the familiar "Preview Window timed out" and "Preview Window isn't responding" messages. The problem persisted even when all extraneous calculations and techniques were removed. For some reason it just seemed to choke on one seemingly innocent line of code. Whether the problem is DBPro/Dark Shader or the shader compiler itself I've no idea.

Fortunately I was able to recode the calculation in an apparently mathematically equivalent form and the problem disappeared - but the error messages were baffling and annoying.
James H
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Posted: 12th Jun 2013 19:35
Fantastic! I`m really looking forward to this
Chris Tate
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Posted: 12th Jun 2013 22:20 Edited at: 12th Jun 2013 22:23
Quote: "I said earlier in this thread that I hadn't experienced any significant problems using Dark Shader on my W7 laptop. Well today I did

I made a minor change to part of a shader for testing purposes and it just wouldn't finish compiling. I got the familiar "Preview Window timed out" and "Preview Window isn't responding" messages."


There will need to be an informative analysis of Dark Basic Professionals reactions to certain shader commands and calculations to expose the potential causes of the annoying error messages in Dark Shader. Hopefully at some point in the future there will be a clear understanding as to why the shader editor is raising errors which seem far off from what is really at fault.

Quote: "Fantastic! I`m really looking forward to this"


As time moves on the graphics cards improve and shaders become ever more and more the way to enhance the look of DBP projects; hopefully the creation I am working on will make the shader development process a fun and productive experience for learners and experts.

Users with a programming background will look forward to intellisense and code editing standards; these people will feel quite welcomed to expand the editor by creating plugins and automation scripts. The creative artists will look forward to using their graphics tablets and brush techniques to form interesting shader creations.

The first month has been a time to work on the user interface, a custom built file manager, texture stage and color palettes. Over the next few months, the tool set will be established and the basics of shader implementation will be set as a foundation for the finished product over the course of the year; bringing texture generation, light-mapping and shader development together with DBP in mind.

A version of X Producer will be exclusive for TGC use, shader model 3 as the primary shading model with lots of scene development shortcuts I come accross as I build my game. Another simplistic free edition will be available for simple shader, light map and scene creation and Sports Fiction modding.



Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 13:18
Looks brilliant.

It would be great if you could combine the best features of Dark Shader and Texture Maker into a single package - and without the defects of either of course.

I'm currently working on using shaders as a fast image processing tool. Using shaders with set camera to image etc you can get complex images created virtually instantly. The hard work is coding the shaders themselves but the speed of execution is worth it. Sounds like you are going down the same route.
TheComet
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 13:51
Not sure how relevant this is, but I wrote a small summary on modern shaders: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=206024&b=2

TheComet


Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, but Today is a Gift. That is why it is called "present".
Chris Tate
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 18:43
Quote: "It would be great if you could combine the best features of Dark Shader and Texture Maker into a single package ... Sounds like you are going down the same route"


Yes, the shader and texturing section will be structured in similar fashion.

My engine is controlled by nodes; so for functionality an additional window will provide access to the nodal network of instructions for materials and generated textures, this will not complicate the work flow because the nodes will be created for you in the background when making use of Dark Shader / Texture Maker styled interface tools; those who wish to control all the minute details by editing the nodes directly may do so if they wish.

The list of tasks that it needs to perform also includes physics materials and AI entities; things I will add to the program next year.

Quote: "Not sure how relevant this is, but I wrote a small summary on modern shaders:"


I had a brief look at it; thanks for the information. All the Shader Model 3 tips will be taken on board.

Ortu
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Posted: 19th Jun 2013 21:24
looks sharp and already professional, nice work! i'd definately be interested in this.

Shazam!
Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:44
Chris, remember to put up some donation details for this project . Are you recruiting testers yet?

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 15:06
I will not forget. I have only just started the project so it will be 4 or 5 months before any test release. At the moment the best help I could ask for are ideas for features, samples of texture generator snippets and other useful concepts.

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