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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Reverse Engeniring - AGK product

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haliop
11
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Joined: 2nd Sep 2008
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Posted: 30th Apr 2013 12:23
is it possible?
if i put an app of Iphone AppStore..
can someone reverse engenir it ?

Van B
Moderator
16
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 30th Apr 2013 13:08
Of course. But that's true of any language really. I mean, when you submit a game to Apple, they have to check it thouroughly - it could be anything that they're accepting, time bomb worm, secret porn app, illegal encryption. They have to be able to check what the program is doing, what it can do, and to do that they have to reverse engineer. If Apple can do it, anyone can - and with platforms like iOS the results are probably a lot clearer than with standard disassembly programs.

But whatcha gonna do? - there's no real weakness in using AppGameKit in terms of security - actually, the way AppGameKit uses interpreted bytecode might make it tougher to figure out... but it's a problem that every developer has to deal with, deal with or disregard... I tend to disregard.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
haliop
11
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Posted: 30th Apr 2013 14:41
hmm ... so i cant really protect my project anyway..
afriad someone will steal it before it will make the money it needs to make..

Van B
Moderator
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 30th Apr 2013 15:41
I don't think reverse engineering is the actual problem though - because a team of cloners could just play your game, steal some screenshots, and go ahead and make a clone, quickly, cheaply. The only thing we can really do is not show our games, make sure they are as slick and bug free as possible on release, and hope that the cream does rise.

It'll be a problem until Apple etc can find a way around it - and that workaround will probably affect all developers detrementally - like having to register a game design, software patenting, that sort of crud that nobody really wants to deal with. I don't think there are many indie developers who are even in a position to do anything legally, due to financial constraints and the complexity of cases like that. We don't have the money to sue, and they aren't even concerned about that. If we complain, then we just highlight their products. It's horrible, but it's not something we can do a lot about, not without harming ourselves in the long run. Making as big a splash as possible, after being as secretive as possible is probably the only thing - get onto several platforms, get lots of youtube videos uploaded, get people to review your game, get people playing as quickly as possible so that any clones coming later are totally obvious clones.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
Impetus73
8
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Joined: 28th Aug 2011
Location: Volda, Norway
Posted: 30th Apr 2013 16:26
I don't think anyone would bother reverse engineer a convoluted system as AppGameKit is, since it has a propritary bytecode file, and allot of redundant code in the main files that runs the commands in the bytecode file. Just to much work... And they would have to know allot about the inner workings of AppGameKit too I guess. I can't see how they could turn the bytecode into readable Tier1 code, and they would loose all spaces and comments...

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
haliop
11
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Posted: 30th Apr 2013 16:52
ty. so what i need to be afriad of is a clone alike...
good thing i have already finished Nano v1.22b until the release its just refining.

Van ty , you just say what i felt , needs to be perfect!

Kevin Picone
17
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 30th Apr 2013 17:11 Edited at: 30th Apr 2013 17:13
Without wanting to put the fear into some people, but it'd be relativity easy to convert compiled AppGameKit BASIC programs back into AppGameKit BASIC styled source codes. You wouldn't get exactly the same thing back (depending on what bread crumbs are left in the BK files really) but you could definitely resource them if you really wanted.

I wouldn't worry about it though, it's much more likely somebody will simply 'clone' your game idea than go to the trouble of disassembling / ripping your actual code.

haliop
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Posted: 30th Apr 2013 17:49
ok ty for your response.
it would be interesting if TGC will open a copy right section with Lawyers to protect TGC tools user made games

Naphier
8
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Joined: 2nd Oct 2010
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posted: 30th Apr 2013 18:23
If you get into trouble you might be able to get help from someone at NewMediaRights.org
Unfortunately there it is extremely easy to clone a game and avoid any copyright issues since copyright only applies to audio/visual assets. So just clone a game's mechanics and key features and make new assets and they're not really infringing on copyright. Similarly with patents. Not only is it extremely difficult to patent software, but more than likely the methods you use in your game are not even eligible for patent. Not to mention it can cost around $10,000 USD to hire a patent lawyer and years to get approval.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1735/the_ten_most_important_video_game_.php

Some new methods that are arising are more in the form of social blacklisting. If someone steals your idea you can take it to Reddit and there's an army of people who may support you and boycott the other developer. You had better be sure that they're copying you though because they can potentially sue you for ruining their game as well.
And it can lead to flame wars like this:
http://kotaku.com/developers-accused-of-cloning-luftrausers-say-luftrause-479916446

Gamasutra has a lot of articles on how to protect your game, combat piracy, and other very topical things. Also Kotaku does a lot of coverage on these types of things, but they seem to be a bit of an instigator.

In today's industry you have to do the best to make a name for yourself and be known. Do what you can to get people on your side so that your idea is recognized as your property. At the same time plan your game so that you can quickly build in new exciting features or mod the game like Angry Birds has done. You essentially have to be ready to be at least one step ahead of your competitors.

In this respect, cloning may not necessarily be a horrible thing. Does it completely suck and is it completely unethical? Yes! But what is evolving from it is a new generation of game development where we have to be on top of our game, we have to be ready to release new features to our game shortly after it is released. Ultimately that will create better games, but in the meantime it is a cutthroat industry.

haliop
11
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Posted: 30th Apr 2013 19:51
very good READ ! should be pinned
good thing project Nano 1.22b have so many features . soon ill even sign some Music artists to it

ok , please do your best(as AppGameKit devs) so i can release the beast!

JimHawkins
10
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Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 30th Apr 2013 19:53
Very sensible comment!

Very few - almost zero - games are actually original; they are variations on a theme. A game would have to be exceptionally good to warrant cloning - and in any case, what is a clone?

The most identifiable copyright elements are graphics and audio. These can be protected to a reasonable extent, as we've been discussing in other threads.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL

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