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Geek Culture / Digital Download only 7000 left!!!

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Matty H
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Posted: 6th May 2013 23:48
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I just thought of this 2 minutes ago so go easy on me

What if you created a game and limited the amount you sold to say, 100,000? Then people who bought it could sell their copy on your site, keeping the game available for new customers, you could also take a percentage for re-selling copies.

Has anything similar ever been done?

It is crazy, but I think it would be appreciated by your customers. I am pretty peeved at the fact online content sells for the same or more than in the shops. I am also annoyed at limited or no online features when you buy a second hand game, until you pay for them.

It seems the digital revolution is a rip off unless you download illegally, which I don't.

My idea would turn the current trend on its head, perhaps prevent some piracy, and you still get a percentage from re-sales.

Good idea, or just stupid?

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Quik
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Posted: 7th May 2013 00:06
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Stupid. Limiting it to 100k copies at a time - provided it's popular, would simply mean too high demand, too little copies - not everybody goes and sells off their games once they're finished.



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Libervurto
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Posted: 7th May 2013 00:13
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Just lower the price, much simpler.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th May 2013 00:19
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Why would you limit a non-material, non-existent property? Assuming you do sell over 100K, you'd be losing yourself money.
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Matty H
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Posted: 7th May 2013 00:23
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Quote: "Stupid. Limiting it to 100k copies at a time - provided it's popular, would simply mean too high demand, too little copies - not everybody goes and sells off their games once they're finished."


Yes, I thought about this, I don't think its a big problem. After 100000(or whatever) sales you only create new copies if there are none on the re-sale queue.

Or you don't have a limit but only sell new copies if there are none on the resale queue.

Re-sales could also be slightly dearer than new copies if needs be, to be sure you sell all the original batch before the re-sales. This would also motivate people to buy early.

Quote: "Just lower the price, much simpler."


The point is to allow customers copies to still be worth something on the market. I'm sure there would be a balance where it is mutually beneficial to the publisher and the customers?

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Quik
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Posted: 7th May 2013 00:33
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Quote: "Yes, I thought about this, I don't think its a big problem. After 100000(or whatever) sales you only create new copies if there are none on the re-sale queue."



and this is basicly what's being done in the industry today - this would kind of completly remove the point of this



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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th May 2013 00:37
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What would be the point of this? How would someone sell their digital copy and you ensure they removed it?

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 7th May 2013 01:06
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It's an interesting idea, perhaps not the most usefull one but it would be fun as an experiment.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th May 2013 01:09
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It could only have a chance of working through a system like Steam, but at the same time the only reason to buy a "pre-owned download" is because it might be cheaper, undercutting your sales.

Make a good game, and your customers will feel the price was worth it. Make it cheap, and you'll make them feel even more so, and make a lot more sales.
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Muzzles56
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Posted: 7th May 2013 01:21
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It's interesting in theory, but when all copies are gone, people will just pirate it, so it wouldnt be executed well
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th May 2013 05:03
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To reduce piracy, we need to ensure our products are highly available to many markets at a reasonable price. Delivery methods need to be solid, and the products need to work hassle free (no unnecessary always-online, cd keys, etc). Limiting individuals to a certain number of copies or asking them to sell their unwanted copy would just cause more problems. I don't think it would work. Maybe the novelty would make people excited, but it might be a one-off experience.
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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 7th May 2013 05:57
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Digital rights management cheapens the product. On the Next-Gen Game Store, all of the developers have opted not to do this. That of course means that there is no way to resell a copy of a game since unlimited copies can be made, but if someone really wants to resell something they can burn it to a CD and charge cash for it.

Cheaper games, you say? Well, at 75 cents per transaction that isn't really practical. Most stores have a $3 minimum for credit card payments. I think that $3 is very reasonable for a new game.

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thenerd
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Posted: 7th May 2013 13:35
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Quote: "It could only have a chance of working through a system like Steam, but at the same time the only reason to buy a "pre-owned download" is because it might be cheaper, undercutting your sales.
"


But this concept shouldn't even need to exist... there's no such thing as a "pre-owned download". Files don't get dusty or scratched up. All a developer would be doing here is cheating themselves out of profit because instead of buying the full game, people could find the "used" download. The developer would get a smaller share of the profit from what it sounds like, and the user would get the exact same game.

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Matty H
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Posted: 7th May 2013 20:56
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It is a little silly.

I think it could be a useful model for a new site looking to compete with steam, but it would be more of a gimmick, not a long term business model.

I game mostly on consoles, digital downloads are often more expensive than buying from the shops, this fact is nearly as crazy as my idea I'm not sure why that is, they must be protecting the retailers or something?

The real solution is for games to be sold digitally at a reasonable price, not sure when or if that will start happening?

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ionstream
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Posted: 7th May 2013 23:21
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I think it might be interesting to generate buzz about a product, but ultimately it might be more annoying than it is novel. Would be an interesting experiment though.

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Indicium
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Posted: 8th May 2013 02:05
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You could try something where price is proportional to number of copies sold. Say your target price is £10, and you launch your game at £5, people who buy the first 100 will get the game between £5-£6, the next 100 copies between £6-£7, until it hits the full price. It could encourage people to buy at the start?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th May 2013 22:36 Edited at: 8th May 2013 22:41
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This would be self-imposed ticket touting, which is a pretty bad idea.

Quote: "The point is to allow customers copies to still be worth something on the market."

No one cares about being able to sell their games, in fact it's a hassle, that is just a way of saving money. So simply reducing the price has the same effect. Here's a nice equation for you:

Price of new game - price of second hand game = price of your game

I like Indicium's idea. You could start the price at $0.01 then raise the price by 1c every sale you make until you hit $10 or something like that.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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Matty H
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Posted: 9th May 2013 00:36
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Quote: "Price of new game - price of second hand game = price of your game"


That is a nice equation.

Far Cry 3 New - Far Cry 3 second hand = Far Cry 3 net cost
45 - 10 = 35

Now for a digital download on the playstation store:

60 - 0 = 60

So I agree, digital media should be cheaper.

But then, people pay 45 pounds for a game which means people can afford to pay 45 pounds for a game, so why would vendors or publishers feel inclined to reduce the price? Same goes for films and even renting films digitally, still costs 5 pound for a HD film on sky or virgin.

Moral of the story - I'm not sure, perhaps things will always be expensive no matter how much technology reduces costs, maybe the only benefit is the entertainment industry grows, more jobs and opportunities, everyone gets to keep busy?

Or maybe prices will come down soon.

I'm not ranting, I really find this stuff interesting, economics etc

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Quik
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Posted: 9th May 2013 00:38 Edited at: 9th May 2013 00:38
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-completly misunderstood what i quoted dont mind me i'm an idiot-



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Melancholic
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Posted: 9th May 2013 00:39
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Intresting discussion unfolding here, an "economist" would called this phenomena price discrimination. Basically everybody has a maximum price that they will buy the product for, and for the most part its different for everybody, question is how do you take advantage of this in order to maximize profits? The idea i like best is a haggling system, as it has the potential to be 100% efficient, though it kinda falls apart with the advent of the internet as you could find out what others are paying.


I can count to banana...
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 9th May 2013 01:23
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While I would and do pay around the £40-50 mark for games, it happens very rarely with games I've been anticipating or watching for a while.

For example, I bought Skyrim and Halo 4 more-or-less on release, and brand new, because I liked both those series. Halo 4 turned out to be meh, but at least Skyrim was great. Metro Last Light is an example of a game that I would buy on release, because it has Metro 2033 was a game I really enjoy, and the materials released seem to be improving on everything I could want improved. Sadly I'm going to London Comicon this month, so painfully I will have to wait until two weeks after release before my next wage when I can buy it(!) Avoiding spoilers will be damned hard, it's one of the few games I don't want spoiled.

Then there's games like Bioshock Infinite and Far Cry 3, which I have earmarked because hey, everyone seems to love them. Still, they don't entice me enough to pay the full price up front, so I give it a few months until prices depreciate and become closer to what I consider a fair deal.

I don't buy off XBox Live because it's the same price, and my net is slow. I would like a solid case in my hand, for that certainty of ownership.

I don't really know what to take away from that little rant. People will have jumped on Bioshock Infinite or Far Cry 3 on launch for full price, many others regularly pounce on Fifa or PES despite my never wanting to even buy the previous years' games are they fall into the £1 bargain bin like a meteor.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I'd say you'd need a lot of market research towards the gamer you're gunning towards. Trying to hit many demographics would be difficult, and make a very shallow game in most cases, (outside the iOS market at least.)

I mean, a Valve fan is unlikely to be a (whoever makes John Madden games) fan, but is possibly likely to be a Bioware fan because those two companies invest in long play sessions, intimate universes, as opposed to a short, casual and fun-if-you-like-that-stuff experience for people playing it between activities for an hour or so at most.

Same console, same release price, completely different customers.
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Quik
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Posted: 9th May 2013 02:14
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Metro Last Light - selling in game difficulty settings as part of preordering the game!

Yeah i'm skipping out on that one.

I bought DMC on release, Tomb raider on release, basicly every Tripwire or Paradox game... oh and bioshock infinite yeah games I know "this I will definitly like" - or games i know who made them - and thus have a place in my heart.

But then, I do have an income nowadays.. so i'm just generarily more than happy to throw my pennies on games..



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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 9th May 2013 02:43
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For small purchases it's not worth it. But if we cast aside the issues of 'implementation' (ie. some type of always online connectivity), there's no real reason why it couldn't work in some form.


Mobile Platforms Are Coming
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Libervurto
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Posted: 9th May 2013 19:40
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The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 9th May 2013 21:15
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Quote: "Metro Last Light - selling in game difficulty settings as part of preordering the game!

Yeah i'm skipping out on that one."


Personally I'm just not going to bother with Ranger Mode. 2033 was hard enough for me on Normal.

I didn't like that decision, but it's a better one than others like EA have taken. I.e., making an awesome character from a race thought long extinct as a companion. Sweet! If you pay...
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Matty H
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Posted: 10th May 2013 19:00
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Nice video OBese87.

It reminded me of the line of thought I had before I made this post, it goes something like this.

Copying digital media without permission from the author is piracy and is a crime. "But why?" some people ask, "We have not stolen anything, we have just copied some binary digits, no one has lost out". This is mostly not true of course, why would people go on to create films/games and music if they just lost all their money and ended up living on the streets. If you don't agree with this then you should look into communism, in a communist system there would be no issue with piracy.

The argument above raises some issues though, what are you buying, I would say you are buying the 'right' to access and use the digital media. Obviously it makes no sense to resell a digital product, since they are simply copied, added or removed from a device.

But it can make sense to sell your right(license) to access and use the media. From that point of view, you should be able to sell (and perhaps even undercut the author?) these rights on.

So although my idea in the first post seems a little silly, the argument for reselling digital media is still wide open imo.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 10th May 2013 20:09
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Reselling either undercuts the original seller, or is redundant because the original seller is the same price/cheaper.

With DRM, it's often a headache if not near-impossible to give someone your game. There's also the trust issue of buying from a stranger. If I give someone money, and they give me a Mars Bar, there's a solidarity in that I'm holding a Mars Bar. If they promise they'll send me CD keys and a link as soon as possible, it's a little iffy.

It'd have to be a forum of sorts set up for this sort of thing, but again, most people register their games on Steam, so they can't be re-registered on another account. Anything else would be just as quick and easy to pirate instead.

Quote: "This is mostly not true of course, why would people go on to create films/games and music if they just lost all their money and ended up living on the streets."


Yeah I know. I saw Tom Cruise busking for pennies the other day. This recession, man...
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