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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / How many polys are too many?

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PirateJohn
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Posted: 27th May 2013 10:07
I'm creating an Olympic weightlifting simulation and am building a fairly realistic looking arena for it in AC3D. The problem is that even with ultra-low poly spectators that I created, I'm still likely to get over 500,000 polys just with spectators. Is this going to slow down my game on an average computer? Granted, I'm not adding any freaky lighting effects for the spectators, so the draw should be pretty basic, but as my poly count is increasing rapidly as I copy/paste all my spectators to fill the arena, I'm getting pretty nervous.
Brendy boy
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Posted: 27th May 2013 10:15
use animated textured plains for spectators, at least for the ones that are far from the camera. Combine as most spectators as possible into one mesh. Polys aren't the problem, draw calls are.
If you have 10 spectators, each 1000 polys and 1 spectator with 15000 polys that one would render faster than those 10

Van B
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Posted: 27th May 2013 17:59
If your using several objects, then you'll hit a brick wall of performance issues. I think though, that your half-million polygon count isn't the issue - as Bendy says, the number of draw calls would cause a problem.

I would suggest making a crowd of spectators - like say 10 x 10 spectators, and randomly welded to each other. So you might have 5 limbs on your object, but that's the spectators glued together, so you offset limb 1, and it'll offset more than one spectator - if you offset on Y with an absolute sin value, the spectators start jumping up and down, but in their limb groups. That's assuming you would want them to be able to jump.

If you can, you should reduce the polygon count the further back you go - even inside that group object, maybe front row, each spectator gets 400 polygons, second row 300, third row 200, fourth row might just be billboard, single polygon plains as Brendy suggests. But this way, you would be able to save a lot of performance, greatly reduce the number of objects, allow for wasted polygons in crowds further away. You probably don't even need to make the whole crowd - just fade them out to darkness, but have random camera flashes from all over the arena - I think you'd end up with a good crowd effect by doing that. Even in the most popular, high budget sports games, crowds are often pretty terrible - often to the point of incompetence I'd say .

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PirateJohn
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Posted: 27th May 2013 20:42
Thanks for the help. Fortunately, since it's a weightlifting arena and not a football stadium, there aren't nearly as many spectators.

I decided to merge all of my spectator image files into one large file and am merging entire rows of spectators as one object that calls on the same image but different locations. I'll still have about a half million polys or so but the entire arena will call on about four JPG files.

Also, my original plan was to add all the spectators in AC3D so everything -- arena and spectators alike -- get exported into one large DirectX file. The downside is that the spectators won't move, but I'm okay with that. I like your idea of adding some random flash bulbs, too. I might try that sometime.
Mage
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Posted: 27th May 2013 23:25
Apparently adding all or many of the objects to a single limb will improve performance. There's also that shader bone performance enhancer floating around here.

James H
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Posted: 28th May 2013 01:28
Worth noting though that in tests I`ve carried out, 1 bone = 1 primitive draw call, in fact any limb either bone or mesh is an additional draw call, perhaps you should do as much work in texture for animation as is possible using a shader to switch UV`s. I`m thinking along the lines of treating plains and associated texture like a sprite map where the shader alters uv`s for animation and perhaps using diffuse component of vertices to change colors between spectators so you would need high poly mesh(es) as multiple plains ie 1 set of indexed vertices per spectator. This would look pretty uniform though, a workaround might be to use more than 1 mesh so they overlap - this way you could have staggard spectators, use different textures to have a different look for spectators ie texture 1 could be males, 2 for females, 3 for children etc or whatever you decide - you could even remove some polygons to break up the uniform look..I hope my terminology was ok or thats gonna sound like I barfed up words all over you!! Perhaps this is over thinking it as you don`t need too many spectators but if you did it could be a possible option to consider
PirateJohn
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Posted: 31st May 2013 02:14
Well, in the end, it's working quite well. There are about 1400 spectators using one of 32 different textures held within the same texture file. I saved one section worth of fans into the same .x file and copy/paste that file six times in the different sections. It takes a little while to load initially, but it's not too bad, and the animation is perfectly smooth even with a lot of the fans on screen.

If you guys like, I can post a screenshot. The arena isn't completely done as I still need to add some small details, but it's definitely nearly there.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 31st May 2013 02:30 Edited at: 31st May 2013 02:35
If you are copy pasting, maybe you could just use clone object instead. That would save loading time, and maybe memory.

I would like to see what it looks like.

PirateJohn
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Posted: 31st May 2013 04:13
Yeah, I used CLONE OBJECT to copy/paste and it worked well.
PirateJohn
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Posted: 31st May 2013 04:36
Here's one screenshot from the back of the arena.
PirateJohn
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Posted: 31st May 2013 04:40 Edited at: 31st May 2013 04:40
Here's another from the back of the arena.
Mobiius
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Posted: 31st May 2013 13:35
Try instance object and see if thats better for you.

Screenshots look ok, if a little plain.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 31st May 2013 13:44
maybe you could try adding pre-drawn shadows to the surfaces. Make the shadows part of the textures.

PirateJohn
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Posted: 1st Jun 2013 02:08
I'm working on my Mark II of the arena now. I downloaded a bunch of pictures of the ExCeL center that was used for the actual games and am trying to recreate the actual arena. I had started on this arena before the Olympics actually started so just had to use my imagination at the time. Now I'm going to make an actual recreation.
Mage
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Posted: 1st Jun 2013 05:44
The light seemed a bit too ambient, but otherwise it looked fantastic. Please post mark 2 when you get it going.

PirateJohn
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Posted: 1st Jun 2013 06:19
Here is what I have so far. I'm still looking for as many pictures as I can of the seating areas so I know how to go about those. My next part to work on is the judges' area.

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