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AppGameKit Classic Chat / [3D Modeling Software] Art of Illusion

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MarcoBruti
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Joined: 20th Nov 2011
Location: Caput Mundi
Posted: 13th Sep 2013 17:20
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Hi,
I am basically focused on 2D games (only 1 3D games made in DBPro, a Q*Bert clone), but with AGKv1 (and AGKv2), I would like to explore the 3D world. So I am new to 3D. I see that some of you are very advanced.
I have discovered a free software called Art of Illusion, that is capable to import/export .obj files. Has anyone had some experience in creating 3D models with this sw and using them with AppGameKit? Pls let me know, so in case I do not waste time. I see that .x formats are not supported, but this could be an issue for AGKv2.
I know that Milkshape is a good sofware, but it is not free. Blender is too much difficult.
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mr_d
DBPro Tool Maker
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Joined: 26th Mar 2007
Location: Somewhere In Australia
Posted: 13th Sep 2013 17:52
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I ran into that program a number of years ago, but didn't really try it out or kept up to date with it at all so cannot comment on how it stacks up to other such software.

for gamemaking, I believe that MilkShape3D is the de-facto standard (but as you have stated, it's not free - but quite cheap for what you get). The upcoming free software being used more and more is blender, but as you also said, it can be quite hard for beginners (or more correctly, it has a steep learning curve) - this will in my opinion become the new standard in the not too distant future - if it's not now.

The next best free beginners 3d software as I have heard is Wings3D.
It does most things needed for simple to intermediate modelling, but it doesn't have any animation functionality at all. Even so, this may be your best choice to go with.

Just to let you know, that although I'm interested in this area as well, I haven't had very much real experience, so pleas take my comments as that of a layman. I'm sure the more experienced 3d artists around here can provide better advice.

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Markus
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Joined: 10th Apr 2004
Location: Germany
Posted: 13th Sep 2013 21:48
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i did searching long for a good 3d software, i prefer this:
shade 13 basic
ac3d
silo 2
3DCrafter
Cheetah3D (mac)

the other good ones are overpriced :-(

converter:
Ultimate Unwrap 3D
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george++
AGK Tool Maker
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Location: Thessaloniki, Hellas
Posted: 13th Sep 2013 22:07
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IMO:
The Wings3D is the best choice if you do not intend to spend some bucks.
The Silo3D is a relative cheap solution (around 100€) but as far as I know is not under further development. It is the best option providing a top level in easy of use with a complete set of tools for all the needs of a game in 3d modeling.
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 13th Sep 2013 23:11
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100€ is really overpriced only to do experiments. Milkshape is cheaper, only 35 €. Wings3d seems very limited. No one knows Art of Illusion. I'll give a try to the latter, there is a tutorial, and I'll let you know.
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haliop
User Banned
Posted: 14th Sep 2013 00:12
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Blender blender blender
It took me a few months to master
It have millions of tutorials online. Mostly on youtube and they take you from gui
To fluids and physics and hair and everything.
I recommend blender for beginners aswell as it is free and poses everything 3dmax, maya and actually everything a 3d modeling,animating,simulation app needs.
Trust me the first few weeks are pretty hard but after a month ( considering you watch one titorial and play eith it a bit so about one hour a day ) you will be in just a few months a decent modeler/animator.
Trust me learn it.



http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198467&b=22
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Markus
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 09:42
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in the final analysis you use a 3d tool that works perfect with
your developing language.
most of the import/export formats are supported only 50% and they are useless.
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 15th Sep 2013 00:03
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Update.
I have installed Art of Illusion and I have completed the tutorial about creating a wooden hourglass.
More or less, following the instructions, I have created the 3D model. It seems, if not friendly, at least not too much difficult to use.
It is written entirely in Java, but it is fast.
I have exported the hourglass as an OBJ model, I make the program create the MTL file (the one with the textures), but...textures do not work. See attached file showing the demo on my Galaxy Note 10.1 tablet.
So it seems that MTL files are not supported by AGK.
Is it a known issue, or will it be supported in AGKv2. Maybe this issue has been discussed elsewhere in this forum, but I have not been able to find it.

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Markus
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Posted: 15th Sep 2013 09:24
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thats what i mean with 50%.
and much important are the surface normals,
some exporters/importers share it with edges and the light calculation is wrong.
i read v2 get a new interface(s) for 3d files.
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 15th Sep 2013 10:51
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It seems that doing serious 3D with AGKv1 is very difficult. MTL files are not supported. Anyway, I am convinced that real 3D games are not for one-man-job-hobby-in-spare-time, but 3D could be used to add to 2D games a better look with some effects. I Think of Nintendo Games as Kirby, New Super Mario Bros or Ben10, they are 2D platform games with some depth effect.
Let's wait for AGKv2...
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 15th Sep 2013 18:12
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Quote: "but 3D could be used to add to 2D games a better look with some effects."

Absolutely! I use Blender to create most of the objects for my WIP and then take a snap of the angle(s) I want for simple sprites or for animations.

I have hopes that my WIP main character might one day transition to 3D and I will already have him ready to go. I can export him, but not the colors of him, yet. I used vertex painting and that isn't unwrappable to a texture file.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
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Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 15th Sep 2013 18:52 Edited at: 15th Sep 2013 18:55
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Quote: "It seems that doing serious 3D with AGKv1 is very difficult. "


Its a pain yes trying to do framed animations but... it is do able.

Im working on a drawing / animating software called ModelProp2013 which is capable of doing both framed model animation as well as smooth direct x animated files.

The problem with agk is that you need to code the flip frames to animate.

eg. if I have a guy walking.... 8 frames.

so I hide 7 of the 8 models and show the applicable frame model.

The second method would be to use a 2d plain with the animated character in 2d frames flipping through.


Anyways you can give mp a try and see if it works for you. Its still a work in progress but is very usable.

and its free soo its worth trying out.

here is a link where I posted it...

I will try to make some help videos today if I get a chance.



http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=207477&b=41

also scroll down as the link I provide on first post needs to be used for the .x to obj conversion....but scroll down and you will find an example of sonic runnen with code....as well as mp2013

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MikeMax
AGK Academic Backer
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Location: Paris
Posted: 20th Sep 2013 04:36 Edited at: 20th Sep 2013 04:50
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Quote: "It seems that doing serious 3D with AGKv1 is very difficult. MTL files are not supported."


Yes ... but not impossible. Actually you can parse the MTL files programmatically and separate your OBJ "groups" by materials.

I'm not telling that what i'm doing is "serious" but AppGameKit has already a lot of possibilities to do great things in 3D.

It's an old video but it's not only a "3D Cube - Proof of concept" and done in Tier 1 :



My favorite softwares for 3D (Mac + Windows) :

- MilkShape3D / Blender /3D World Studio / AC3D / Cheetah 3D / Sketchup / Cinema 4D
- GIMP + Photoshop for image/textures authoring/editing (still not very useful for 3D texturing but it will be
- Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro (a must have .. a swiss knife for 3D Texturing (UV), file conversions , polycount reduction ... it's actually the best tool i have to deal with two levels of textures (for lightmaps (which can be used with agk)). I specified my needs to the author and now i have a "special" OBJ plugin (you can't script yours actually)
- Fragmotion (really cool tool for a lot of things ... can especially do 2D spritesheets from 3D animated characters like SpriteWorks2 was doing)

All of these softwares have their own advantages ... (but a Blender with a looooooooooot of plugins can certainly do ...everything lol)
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DVader
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Posted: 26th Sep 2013 18:34
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Quote: "I am convinced that real 3D games are not for one-man-job-hobby-in-spare-time"

I agree in many respects. One man cannot compete with the vast resources needed for many 3D projects. However, with a simple idea and a suitably low amount of models needed it is quite feasible. You should take a look at some of the indie stuff out there like Table for One for instance. Not that much to look at graphically, but still a decent little game. I have a play through on my youtube channel if you want to see it running, plus a link to the game.
As for a 3D package to use, pretty much all of them have been covered I think. I would like Sketchup to be fully supported personally, as for buildings and such, I found it easier and faster than any other program I have used. It's got some excellent image options to map out a building really well with just a few images.
I also like 3D Max a lot, but it is rather expensive. If only I could spot another free version, like the one on the cover of Computer Arts (I think), years ago!

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Fallout
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Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 26th Sep 2013 19:36
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Just to give my 2 cents to this semi-old thread, I've been using Milkshape for years and years. It's paid for itself many a time. I think it's absolutely ideal for AppGameKit, because any mobile game needs to be as efficient as possible, and Milkshape makes low-poly modelling really easy. Normals are exported correctly in the OBJ format too. I also have Ultimate Unwrap 3D for texturing, which has MS3D support.

Having said that, I've not tested animation yet since it's currently unsupported in AGK. It'll be interesting to see if the MS3D animation -> OBJ -> AppGameKit v2 works.
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baxslash
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Posted: 27th Sep 2013 11:15
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The obj format does not support animation. AppGameKit will need to import another format or two before animation can be used.

Different does not mean not equal: a = b
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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Sep 2013 15:26
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I had a suspicion that'd be the case. Here's hoping V2 supports an MS3D compatible format.
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yamyam
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Posted: 27th Sep 2013 16:19
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Milkshape 3d is ok for modeling but i find it hard to get the hang of, another cheaper option that works better in my opinion is the very easy to use Sketchup free version from google with the obj exporter installed. The added advantage of this is you can then search the google warehouse for licensee free models or use your own.

the free scetchup program is not very good for texturing unless you pay for the texture addon. but i use the excellent free version of lithunwrap to add textures job done.

i have uploaded an image of a few models i have created chest,barrel,ship,monster using this free software.

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